Blind_Evil wrote:Edit, now that I think about it, the coffee thermoses were nothing compared to
Spoiler:the f*cking Verizon ad on the television in Hartman's lodge. I mean, goddammit, the game has conditioned you thus far to turn on TVs to watch Night Springs episodes and see clips of when Alan was holed up in the cabin writing the manuscript and then *BANG* right in the middle of a tense escape sequence they blast you with a f*cking commercial
Spoiler:I thought that part was delightfully tongue-in-cheek. They are making fun of the fact that you stopped to turn on a TV in the middle of an escape sequence; I got the 5G achievement "Boob Tube" for doing that, which is described with "See what's on TV". Nothing's on TV man, get out of that building before the shadow tornado thing eats you.
I laughed out loud at that Achievement.
The product placement didn't really bother me. Would I prefer to live without it - yes, does it get on my nerves - not really.
I'm good in rationalizing stuff that makes no sense to me to preserve my immersion. The coffee thermoses I took in stride, taking Alan for a big coffee drinker, desperate to stay awake and alert.
I just finished. Loved it. One of my favorite games now, I think. I just really liked the acting, the story, and the action. The atmosphere was just perfect, and being a Stephen King fan, it felt like a tribute to him.
I loved the ending. It went pretty much exactly as I'd hoped it would. Not clean & tidy, but more psychological and subjective.
Hats off to Remedy for this one.
I agree on the Verizon thing. There's a fine line between immersion and selling out. I just stared at the TV after, like "was that it?`. It ruined the whole mood for a good few minutes after it.
Apparently, which episode and chapter you're on is saved to your Gamer Tag instead of to your hard drive. I wasn't able to salvage any of my saved games from my lemon console (they had been corrupted on the hard drive and wouldn't copy), but once I recovered my Gamer Tag on my new console it preserved my settings and progress in Alan Wake. That's a nice touch.
I'm pressing on toward finishing this, but I expect to sell it or trade it as soon as I'm done. I'm enjoying it well enough, but it's not memorable or remarkable enough for me to hang on to. Episode 3 takes forever...
Also just finished. Absolutely loved it, had to tear myself away to do things like eat. Definitely the front runner for my GOTY.
Also just finished. Absolutely loved it, had to tear myself away to do things like eat. Definitely the front runner for my GOTY.
Agreed. It's my #1 GOTY choice ... so far. Red Dead Redemption is looking mighty good too, though. And lots coming out this year that could change things, but Alan Wake will certainly be on the list.
^Agreed. While I was experiencing the playable events of the ending and ultimately the end cut scenes themselves, I was thinking to myself "this is good but not great". It's funny, as soon as I finished it and got to thinking about what it all meant, I really started to develop a favorable feeling towards it.
I'm now reading The Alan Wake Files which came with my special edition, as it goes into detail on key points of the plot that weren't completely tied up and explained within the game. Personally, I love that sort of thing. I've read the Halo novels front to back to experience more of the overall universe and enjoyed the hell out of them. I hope AW can fatten me up on entertainment of all sorts.
The ending really left it wide open and within a couple of days I had a few "dream scenarios" that I'm wishing Remedy goes through with, should they make a sequel (which they practically announced before 1 was even released).
Anyone else think this'd make a good online co-op game? Off hand, I dunno how they'd do this, but if they could keep it RE2 style with you and your partner playing some parts together, some parts separated, that'd be pretty enjoyable I think. Speak into your headset, but have your partner's voice come through the TV as if it's in-game audio, coming from a walkie-talkie or something. Send up flares to indicate where you are for your partner, hear gun fights in the distance. They could do so much.
Kinda late to the party on this one, I took a little break from RDR this weekend and finally popped in Alan Wake - just finished up chapter three. The game has really surpassed my expectations, I knew I would dig the atmosphere, but I'm surprised how much I'm enjoying the actual gameplay too. The way light is used really adds a whole other dimension to what could have been just typical survivor horror gun combat. There is a great feeling of tension in the moment to moment gameplay, it works really well with the wonderfully creepy vibe.
Maybe it's just me, but I think that the mere presence of the thermoses detracts from the atmosphere.
I don't know, they have added a little levity to my playthrough so far. My wife and kids have been watching the game, and it's kind of a running joke now that Alan is running purely on caffeine, and each thermos is a welcome sight for this poor bastard. I guess whomever's been leaving ammo and batteries has not forgotten that our man also needs his java fix to get through this ordeal!
The thermoses are a Twin Peaks reference. But yea, they don't really serve any purpose in the game.
I'm at the end of Episode 5 now. While I can't say I agree at all with the GOTY mentions, it's a very solid game. The action is growing on me and the story gets better and better. Barry grows on you as well.
^Agreed. I thought I'd be wanting to punch him in the throat by the end of the game. But he really grew on me, and I found myself hoping he survived.
Okay, the ending kinda threw me for a loop. Anyone wanna share their theories on what's up with everything?
Seems to me that...
Wake has taken Alice's place in the darkness, and that the darkness extends beyond Cauldron Lake, though that may be too literal an interpretation of the "It's not a lake...it's an ocean" line. The imagery made you think Rose was the new Cynthia Weaver, which would make sense if you're going for a Zane/Wake parallel. Barbara Jagger was Zane's lady, Weaver was the jealous outsider. Same for the Alan/Alice/Rose relationship. Rose had a somewhat sinister look on her face, though. And was that Nightingale behind her, hammering on a typewriter?
I don't own this game, so the idea that all this will be answered in DLC is a little discouraging. Anyway, thoughts?
I'm pressing on toward finishing this, but I expect to sell it or trade it as soon as I'm done. I'm enjoying it well enough, but it's not memorable or remarkable enough for me to hang on to. Episode 3 takes forever...
Yeah, I play each episode in one sitting, and while the beginning of Episode 3 was really neat, it didn't take long for me to be looking at the clock wondering when I'd be getting to bed. It wouldn't have felt right just saving and leaving it for another day. They should have split Episode 3 into two separate episodes instead of a single one.
Okay, the ending kinda threw me for a loop. Anyone wanna share their theories on what's up with everything?
Seems to me that...
Spoiler:Wake has taken Alice's place in the darkness, and that the darkness extends beyond Cauldron Lake, though that may be too literal an interpretation of the "It's not a lake...it's an ocean" line. The imagery made you think Rose was the new Cynthia Weaver, which would make sense if you're going for a Zane/Wake parallel. Barbara Jagger was Zane's lady, Weaver was the jealous outsider. Same for the Alan/Alice/Rose relationship. Rose had a somewhat sinister look on her face, though. And was that Nightingale behind her, hammering on a typewriter?
I don't own this game, so the idea that all this will be answered in DLC is a little discouraging. Anyway, thoughts?
You might want to read this.
Yeah, I play each episode in one sitting, and while the beginning of Episode 3 was really neat, it didn't take long for me to be looking at the clock wondering when I'd be getting to bed. It wouldn't have felt right just saving and leaving it for another day. They should have split Episode 3 into two separate episodes instead of a single one.
I agree, episode 3 was very long. I did end up splitting it into 2 evenings.
Okay, the ending kinda threw me for a loop. Anyone wanna share their theories on what's up with everything?
Seems to me that...
Spoiler:Wake has taken Alice's place in the darkness, and that the darkness extends beyond Cauldron Lake, though that may be too literal an interpretation of the "It's not a lake...it's an ocean" line. The imagery made you think Rose was the new Cynthia Weaver, which would make sense if you're going for a Zane/Wake parallel. Barbara Jagger was Zane's lady, Weaver was the jealous outsider. Same for the Alan/Alice/Rose relationship. Rose had a somewhat sinister look on her face, though. And was that Nightingale behind her, hammering on a typewriter?
I don't own this game, so the idea that all this will be answered in DLC is a little discouraging. Anyway, thoughts?
I think for the most part, you're right. To be perfectly honest, this game's ending has been haunting me and, in particular, so has
the Bowie song at the end -- have you ever gotten a song so stuck that you want to listen to it, obsessively, over and over? That's been me and "Space Oddity."
I haven't read too many theories out there, including the link provided by Jeff-66 (though I opened it and it's an active tab right now, I just haven't clicked on it), and I think it's because I want to make up my own mind on it all first, you know? I love that it's puzzling, and that it's ambiguous, and I have a feeling -- regardless of the DLC, the space between now and then will be filled with lots of interesting, intelligent discussion that -- like the week-to-week experience watching, say, Lost or Twin Peaks when it aired, is probably 90% of the fun.
Regardless, where I think things work with it:
1)
Did Bird Leg Cabin really exist in "real space?" This is maybe, to me, one of the hardest questions to answer given the base game information provided. (I'm only staying purist because I haven't sunk my teeth into the extra stuff; do I want to? Hell yes. But I haven't.) Either way, we know that Wake's missing week was spent at the Cabin, that Zane and Jagger were both there in that missing time, and that Wake traveled back to the (presumably sunken) cabin during the endgame. I hope I'm getting this right. But Alice was caught by the darkness, and Wake risked himself/sacrificed himself to save here, and was consumed by the darkness.
Which leads to 2)
What is the nature of the darkness, and how does it relate to that closing line? My thoughts come in a couple of parts: a) "It's not a lake, it's an ocean." is a f*cking fantastic closing line -- just a gutshot of a line, only to be followed by the echo of the beginning. But if the darkness, the lake, the cabin, et cetera were all created/incorporated into fiction by Zane/Wake (in whatever order), and thus removed from "real space," then it follows that the epiphany we witnessed in that final cutscene is related to Wake's ultimate revelation, and it's a revelation that Zane was trying to funnel him toward with the manuscript pages and et cetera. And if the darkness consumed himself and Alice, only he was able to escape using Zane/Jagger's trap door back into "real space" after the missing week, then it follows that he must rejoin and use his "powers" to save Alice but sacrifice himself.
2b)
The song is significant: it's about an explorer in deep space losing his connection to the earth but achieving the ultimate discovery of the dawning awareness of a new age (in a sense). The spaceman imagery is reflected in Zane's suit. It also makes me think (though I don't know if it's a direct influence, but go with me here) of comic book writer Grant Morrison and his fiction suit concept, which specifically deals with the notion of writers not simply "writing themselves into their fiction," but instead he chooses to cast it in science-fictional terms: that the act of doing so is "donning a fiction suit and entering fiction, as if it were outer space or another planet." So planes of existence, running in parallel, accessed through altered states, the imagination, and creative endeavors. Follow me so far?
So 2c) is this:
Wake, like Zane, is exploring the fictional realm, represented by darkness (because of their chosen genre), and it's tapping into the Jungian collective unconscious, or something like that (I mean, they go down into a lake for God's sake; if that's not representing the dark, suppressed/repressed impulses of mankind, I dunno what does; also: those consumed become aggressive, axe-wielding/throwing maniacs -- I don't think I'm stretching here). To do so, they are not only explorers (like Major Tom, et cetera), but their powers -- their writing ability -- also allows them to shape the realm, to make it do their bidding. Hence Wake's desire to save Alice; hence Wake's realization in the missing week; hence the way it all adds up when he makes it back to Bird's Leg Cabin and has his fight with the darkness -- he's exerting control over a force that connects the untapped creative potential in all of us. Hence: "It's not a lake, it's an ocean."
Which takes me to 3)
So the hell what? And what about the closing, closing line? First of all, that lake/ocean line is even more compelling that the final moment, but remember the final moment is Alice saying "Alan...wake up..." just like she does in the opening of the game. Remember? As they're driving into town and he's sleeping in the car? So are we in "it was all a dream" territory? Or is that somehow an echo that will bring Alan back to "real space" and out of the Cauldron Lake/ocean darkness? Is the key to it all the fact that he spent a week in Bird's Leg Cabin writing the events that brought him there and, therefore, has control over that sequence of events and can, therefore, save himself from being consumed by the darkness the same way he was able to save Alice?
I don't know if I have an answer to any of the above, but I really, really enjoy thinking about it, which is one of my biggest takeaways from the game. For whatever it's worth.
I also realize it's a little annoying to have a spoiler-laden post such as this, so maybe a spoiler-tagged thread that has ending speculation is in order? I tried to break it up so it wasn't one huuuuge spoiler tag, but I also realize that the greater content of my post is nothing more than that...
Either way, I'm going to go back and rewatch all the cutscenes -- but particularly Episode Six -- now.
Insightful stuff. I don't really have anything to add, because I don't have the answers either.
One thing I must say. If you enjoyed Alan Wake I strongly suggest you go check out Silent Hill: Shattered Memories for Wii or PS2 or PSP. It is awesome in a lot of the same ways, that deep psychological stuff, the very ambiguous and tenuous relationship with realities, possibilities, etc.
Insightful stuff. I don't really have anything to add, because I don't have the answers either.
One thing I must say. If you enjoyed Alan Wake I strongly suggest you go check out Silent Hill: Shattered Memories for Wii or PS2 or PSP. It is awesome in a lot of the same ways, that deep psychological stuff, the very ambiguous and tenuous relationship with realities, possibilities, etc.
That's the (quasi) remake of the first game with the WiiMote stuff like cell phone calls coming out of the littel speaker, yeah? Been meaning to since the Giant Bomb Bombcast GOTY discussion about it back in December. If only I can a) find a copy (everytime I glance at the GameStop, it's not a common used/new anymore; though there's always eBay...), and b) wrest my Wii back from my family this summer.
That's the one yeah, but it's a remake in only the loosest sense.
It's actually my favorite horror game ever. Just ahead of RE4 and SH2. AW probably parks in 4th, or 5th behind Fatal Frame 2.
I'd advise getting on it sooner rather than later. It strikes me as an eventual collector's gem. Also, the Wii version is definitely the best, if only for the excellent IR-based flashlight pointing.
One thing I hope they expand upon in later episodes is:
The relationship between the lake and the Dark Presence. At the beginning it seemed like they were linked, but as the game progresses it becomes more apparent that the Dark Presence is a separate entity that needs to use people in order to tap into the lake's power. Is the darkness a creation of the lake, or was it drawn to the lake by the promise of power?
Also,
Alan seems to occupy a much stronger position at the end of the game than Zane did the first time around. Zane almost completely wrote himself out of existence, whereas Alan manage to wrest control of his story back from the Dark Presence. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in later installments, since the cycle seems to be starting over with Rose and Nightingale taking the places of Weaver and Jagger. However, this time around the previous author is still in a position of considerable power.
That's the one yeah, but it's a remake in only the loosest sense.
It's actually my favorite horror game ever. Just ahead of RE4 and SH2. AW probably parks in 4th, or 5th behind Fatal Frame 2.
I'd advise getting on it sooner rather than later. It strikes me as an eventual collector's gem. Also, the Wii version is definitely the best, if only for the excellent IR-based flashlight pointing.
It's in a decent range on eBay, unlike the Metroid Prime Trilogy, which is absurd for me to double-dip since I have all the GC/Wii versions already but...but...fancy Wii controls for all three games is awfully tempting...
I was eyeballing it for the Wii anyway, as it's the only system you listed that I own, and of the horror games mentioned, Silent Hill 2 is the only one I have no exposure to. The series has always been intriguing to me, so I'll have to give that one a look -- thanks for the recommend...
(For the record: RE4 on the Wii, and it was beyond awesome; both Fatal Frame games are sitting in my XBox Pile o'Shame.)
Back on thread a little bit, am I the only one fed up with tank controls in these horror games? I realize Wake isn't about the shooting, but there were so many, many moments in those woods where I swear to god my death was purely because the turning radius on Wake was so...frigging...slow...
The upshot, I guess, for Wake is that the most effective strategy is to run like hell towards the light -- which, to be honest, doesn't work, in my experience, in your average Resident Evil. It just made certain sequences like
the otherwise awesome Farm/Concert sequence
a little too frustrating, and I felt like I was "gaming" it by camping in a corner so I had two-thirds of my 360 radius covered by a pair of walls. Which I suppose would be my strategy if I faced this circumstance naturally, to be perfectly honest (apart from, y'know, pants-wetting with fear-urine, and, possibly, running and screaming like a toddler with a skinned knee), it still broke the immersion just enough to annoy.
Also: I rewatched some of the cutscenes, and I may have a Unified Theory of Alan Wake post to make in the near future.
One thing I hope they expand upon in later episodes is:
Spoiler:The relationship between the lake and the Dark Presence. At the beginning it seemed like they were linked, but as the game progresses it becomes more apparent that the Dark Presence is a separate entity that needs to use people in order to tap into the lake's power. Is the darkness a creation of the lake, or was it drawn to the lake by the promise of power?
Also,
Spoiler:Alan seems to occupy a much stronger position at the end of the game than Zane did the first time around. Zane almost completely wrote himself out of existence, whereas Alan manage to wrest control of his story back from the Dark Presence. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in later installments, since the cycle seems to be starting over with Rose and Nightingale taking the places of Weaver and Jagger. However, this time around the previous author is still in a position of considerable power.
Yeah, I had forgotten about
Rose and Nightingale being the new, cyclical elements
until I rewatched some cutscenes.
I think both of your points are connected, though, in that
Zane wrote himself out of "real space," whereas Alan wrote himself into the "fictive space." By writing himself into it, it's like Alan has control over the dark presence, with the main difference being the "cost that must be paid" -- ie: that it's a one-to-one exchange of Alice for Alan.
I think it's also important to remember that the whole game starts with the idea of
a nightmare; and the cycle -- though I don't think they're going for a "it was all a dream" territory -- can only be broken with that in mind. Maybe?
All something to noodle over.
The other thing I'm interested in is
"Mr Scratch" - he was featured so briefly at the end, but the ramifications could be pretty interesting. Zane said something along the lines of "don't worry, he'll meet your friends later", so it seems like he could be intended as a replacement for Alan while he's in fiction-land.
The other thing I'm interested in is
Spoiler:"Mr Scratch" - he was featured so briefly at the end, but the ramifications could be pretty interesting. Zane said something along the lines of "don't worry, he'll meet your friends later", so it seems like he could be intended as a replacement for Alan while he's in fiction-land.
My guess is you'll be playing as him in the DLC. There is a brief encounter with him in the Alan Wake Files book that comes with the LE but it isn't very illuminating.
I guess I'll just have to finish the game since I can't read like 80% of this thread.
Suppose that the lake is like a psychic amplifier that allows certain creative people to shape reality as they please. Also suppose that the idea of 'equilibrium' is integral to the lake's function.
What if, over many centuries of people using the lake for their own greedy purposes, the lake was thrown so far out of equilibrium that it became itself greedy and covetous in an effort to compensate? The so-called 'Dark Presence' may be a massive unpaid debt hanging over an otherwise neutral force.
Is this game just six chapters of finding your way down a forest painted corridor while being confronted every 15 seconds by bad guys that need to be shot with light before they can be shot with bullets? I'm trying to decide if I should just sell it and watch the story on YouTube.
Is this game just six chapters of finding your way down a forest painted corridor while being confronted every 15 seconds by bad guys that need to be shot with light before they can be shot with bullets? I'm trying to decide if I should just sell it and watch the story on YouTube.
Sometimes the corridor has little buildings in it.
Is this game just six chapters of finding your way down a forest painted corridor while being confronted every 15 seconds by bad guys that need to be shot with light before they can be shot with bullets? I'm trying to decide if I should just sell it and watch the story on YouTube.
You know, I was talking about this to my wife a few days ago. One of our good friends is really into watching video game playthroughs before ever playing a game: she even watched someone stream their play sessions of Heavy Rain before ever playing the game (which I completely don't understand, but whatever). She watched a playthrough of Alan Wake and was left decidedly 'meh'. My wife tried to watch me play the game a few times, but she really didn't enjoy being a spectator / co-pilot with Alan Wake like she did with so many other games. This got me thinking: I think the mechanics of Alan Wake don't lend themselves particularly well to just being a spectator, since so much of the atmosphere and game play is intimately tied to the actions of the player. This could be said for any game, I know, but one of the most striking aspects of Alan Wake is the amount of tension it creates while the player is controlling the main character, and I don't think that translates very well to anyone else watching the game since it's almost an intimate bond between the player and the game. Of course, I'm basing this theory on a very small sample pool of my wife, our friend and myself, but my wife even agrees that it makes complete sense as to why she doesn't enjoy watching this particular game even though she enjoys the story and setting.
So, personally, I'd definitely recommend playing it over watching a You Tube video of the game, since I think there's a connection to the overall story you'd be missing otherwise.
Is this game just six chapters of finding your way down a forest painted corridor while being confronted every 15 seconds by bad guys that need to be shot with light before they can be shot with bullets? I'm trying to decide if I should just sell it and watch the story on YouTube.
That's a pretty reductive way to look at it, and could probably be applied to almost any third person shooter. The gameplay varies as there are different light sources to use, often-enough driving sequences, poltergeists, etc. Different settings, too, not just woods.
The gameplay varies as there are different light sources to use [...] Different settings, too, not just woods.
Those must be in episodes five and six, because episodes one through four have been pretty homogenous.
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