Master of Orion 1 + 2 on GOG

If you can only fit one of the two. Is reinforced hull or heavy armour worth more? The armour seems to take the hits first, but some damage always leaks through.

Also, do you think bonuses to shield recharge and automated repair systems are worth much?

Tamren wrote:

If you can only fit one of the two. Is reinforced hull or heavy armour worth more? The armour seems to take the hits first, but some damage always leaks through.

Also, do you think bonuses to shield recharge and automated repair systems are worth much?

I'd go with heavy armor if only because it's higher on the tech tree.

Shield bonuses, I don't know. I've never sat and done the math, I prefer my skirmishes too brief to make shield recharge worth much.

If you don't have Advanced Damage Control (Engineering 6) then your ships won't be repaired automatically after combat, unless your race is cybernetic (or you visit one of your star bases?). So then you'd benefit from an Automated Repair Unit (Eng 8) if your ships are going deep into enemy lines.

I think id prefer reinforced hull. There are a lot of armour piercing weapons and once the armour is all gone the hull will take the hits anyway.

I think shields absorb a certain amount of damage off every hit as long as they stay up. So a level 3 shield absorbs 3 damage per hit and has a pool of 75 points. Shields recharge 30% per turn, so with the shield recharge bonus it would recharge 100% per turn. I guess that makes sense because your damage reduction will stick around for a lot longer.

Tamren wrote:

I think id prefer reinforced hull. There are a lot of armour piercing weapons and once the armour is all gone the hull will take the hits anyway.

I think shields absorb a certain amount of damage off every hit as long as they stay up. So a level 3 shield absorbs 3 damage per hit and has a pool of 75 points. Shields recharge 30% per turn, so with the shield recharge bonus it would recharge 100% per turn. I guess that makes sense because your damage reduction will stick around for a lot longer.

I'd go for that if you are fighting an enemy that swarms you with smaller ships and weapons, might skip it if you are fighting people that hit for significantly more than three damage.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

The Creative trait is a bit overpowered. If you don't take it, you must do a lot of tech trading or you'll get screwed. And if you don't have neighbors to trade with or they're all ahead of you, well... get your industry producing white flags. ;)

When I played this game I would always make a custom race and use the Psilon picture just so I could get the Creative trait out of the game. The trait was simultaneously overpowered and dull to play, as technology research was my favorite aspect of the game.

Tamren wrote:

I think id prefer reinforced hull. There are a lot of armour piercing weapons and once the armour is all gone the hull will take the hits anyway.

Heavy armor negates armor piercing weapons.

Aha I forgot that. But do they stop neutron blasters?

Neutron blasters only kill marines when they do damage to internal systems, and AFAIK, they'll only damage internal systems after the armor is gone. Some weapons bypass armor, but neutron blasters are not one of them.

Neat. Alright i'll give it another go.

My problem with the game is that I'm bad at multitasking every thing I should be doing to expand my empire. Making colonies, upgrading colonies, researching, building ships. I tend to do all of these tasks one at a time. But that results in long stretches of time when my fleet is outdated, or I don't even have a fleet. A lot of time spent with no research etc. I'm getting better though.

Yeah, you need to be doing a little bit of everything, all the time. Don't forget that you can refit ships, so early investment into a few bigger ships isn't the waste it was in MOO1. You can turn your old laser cannon and MK1 shield cruiser into a phasor/mk10/lightning shield monstrosity.

Maintaining a reasonably capable fleet means you don't have a big target painted on your back.

Man, juggling the politics can be damnably difficult sometimes. You can have a non-aggression pact with someone, be very friendly, have never fought against them at all, and yet they'll still sometimes vote for the guy they've been at war with for decades.

Remember that as far as multi-tasking goes, the game is turn-based! Take all the time you need.

Malor wrote:

Man, juggling the politics can be damnably difficult sometimes. You can have a non-aggression pact with someone, be very friendly, have never fought against them at all, and yet they'll still sometimes vote for the guy they've been at war with for decades.

The one I always hated, was when the Darlok's would frame me for stealing research from a very close ally, who didn't have anything that I didn't have already, and would immediately declare war on me.

Does being blockaded stop you from being able to farm? That's weird and weirder that I never realized it.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Does being blockaded stop you from being able to farm? That's weird and weirder that I never realized it.

I thought blockades just meant you couldn't import/export to that colony. Pretty sure they can still produce whatever they want on their own, including farm their own planet.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Does being blockaded stop you from being able to farm? That's weird and weirder that I never realized it.

No, but it stops freighters from delivering food to the planet.

I think it does stop you from local farming. I remember seeing the same thing and wondering about it.

I looked it up. Blockades halve industry and farming, and prevent freighters. No effect on research. It doesn't stop you from farming, but you'll need to assign more farmers to avoid starvation.

I assigned the entire colony (11 citizens) to farming and it had no effect at all. The colony only produced the 2 food from the hydroponic garden so they were still starving. I was also playing Sakura, though I don't know if that's relevant.

I've seen that bug on rare occasion. Despite assigning the entire colony to farming, the display still shows just 2 food being produced. Reload from a save.

You are living the mantra 'save early, save often', right? Saves aren't for cheating, they are for dealing with bugs, like these.

Also the game would not let me exchange tech. I had plasma rifles. The other guy had plasma cannons. And yet the exchange tech button was never enabled, no matter how often I exited and entered the audience screen.

The game had a great start, finding a huge Terran planet next door to my start position, but then those aggressive Klackon f*ckers showed up and started being dicks. I need more breathing room!

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Also the game would not let me exchange tech. I had plasma rifles. The other guy had plasma cannons. And yet the exchange tech button was never enabled, no matter how often I exited and entered the audience screen.

The game had a great start, finding a huge Terran planet next door to my start position, but then those aggressive Klackon f*ckers showed up and started being dicks. I need more breathing room!

I think that cutting edge ship weapons and equipment aren't on the tech exchange table. You'll see a big difference between what races are willing to bargain with and what they actually have.

Nevin73 wrote:
Quintin_Stone wrote:

Also the game would not let me exchange tech. I had plasma rifles. The other guy had plasma cannons. And yet the exchange tech button was never enabled, no matter how often I exited and entered the audience screen.

The game had a great start, finding a huge Terran planet next door to my start position, but then those aggressive Klackon f*ckers showed up and started being dicks. I need more breathing room!

I think that cutting edge ship weapons and equipment aren't on the tech exchange table. You'll see a big difference between what races are willing to bargain with and what they actually have.

Most of the 4x games have this in one way or another. You can either wait a few turns, or try to increase your diplomatic standing with the race in question as I've seen that open up new options as well.

I was also playing Impossible, which I believe gives a serious knock against your diplo abilities. I somehow managed to form an Alliance with the Psilons, which is awesome, but I've got several other races at war with me.

even though I got MOO1 somewhere and Moo2 somewhere I couldn't find them in my house so I've bought them again for the 3rd time from gog. I remembered moo2 in windowed mode running orion95. I think I got it on my old computer so I can fire it up and check.

Yesterday I played MOO1 and MOO2 and I got to the conclusion I forgot how to play. Maybe because I'm less than diplomatic,neglected spy protection, neglected defenses.

In moo1 (Psilon) I did manage to recover by building a small fleet and returning my enemies a favor. I'm still not in an optimal state but my tech is fairly advanced. A recovery is possible but I'll have to design some bigger ships or some kind of bomber .

In Moo2 (creative,subterran,aquatic) It's generally a total loss. my missile ships might be able to take some creatures but they don't have shields yet . The planets near my homeworld are pretty bad(ultrapoor and toxic, radiated ultra rich with ameba) and I've been cooped there for a while. The Terellian fleet is starting to unload their bombs 2 parsecs from my homeworld. I think one thing that killed me was taking -10 to spy and not defending my technology enough. The penalties for ship attack and defense are more easily overcome by technology low on the research tree. The penalties for spying are overcome with higher techs in a lot of fields(computer,biology,sociology).Spying rolls happen every single turn which raises the chance you'll get hurt by it in a major way.

Thoughts from my most recent and last game (for a while):

Most of my games end up with 2 races in a cold war, both building dozens Doomstars in their established colonies.

Best way to steal an enemy's tech (ship tech, at least) is to capture their ship and scrap it. This also works well for Antaran tech (esp reflective shield). Of course, the quantum detonator means there's a 50% chance the Antaran ship will explode, so be prepared to capture 2 or 3. Spies are slow and unreliable when it comes to stealing tech. Invasion works too, for colony tech, and if you don't want to keep the colony, bomb it to just 1 colonist and start eliminating.

If you want to capture ships, use transporters. They require shields to be down, so don't use weapons that ignore shields (shield-piercing). Hard shields will prevent transporters, though I've not seen an AI ship use hard shields that I can recall. Use neutron blasters or death rays to kill marines on the enemy ship before boarding. If all enemy marines are dead, you can send a single marine to capture the ship. Making a ship immobile for standard close-up boarding is too unreliable unless you pack tractor beams. I like to have a cloaked ship do my capturing, after the front-line ships soften the target up (take down its shields, kill its marines). Put troops pods in to increase the number of marines available to you. Scan a ship to see how many marines are left on board.

Please note that Antaran marines are very resistant to Death Rays and Neutron Blasters for some reason.

Embarrassingly, I have not been reading the ship diagram properly all these years. Yellow bands around the ship image are shields. The horizontal blue bar is armor. Red bar is hull, yellow bar is internal systems. Do not neglect your armor, it lasts longer than shields and is needed to protect your systems.

I've stopped using missiles because of how much PD the AI puts on their ships. You have to fire a ton to get through and it's just not worth it. Torpedoes, on the other hand, cannot be shot down with PD lasers or anti-missile rockets. I still don't like them though. Emissions-guided torps would be good for nailing drives so you could do a capture, if it wasn't for how much space it'd take up... also, you can't apply the Emissions-Guided mod to torps.

I recently started a new moo2 game without the spying penalty and it's going much better. Those missile destroyers are still fairly useful at the very beginning using a hit and run tactic. I destroyed the annoying Elerians that way. The humans tried to hit one of my weak colony and after a quick buy of a missile base + a few missile destroyers They turn around and ran. The Silicoids also tried to take one of my colonies and soon they'll stop existing ;).

This is my current game map: IMAGE(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/6301/moo2niseg.jpg)

My race is "Psilon " in the east (yellow), in the NW Humans SW are Klackons and as you noticed the Silicoids don't have much left . I'm already at war with Humans and Silicoids and after I exterminate the Silicoids I bet the humans would want peace.

I like using missile cruisers as disposable pop tarts. Its okay if I lose a few each fight. They tend to be a lot weaker than my line ships so the enemy beams target them first. Any overkill damage is lost and doesn't have the full effect. 2shot launchers with fast missile racks means every combat starts with this overwhelming tide of missiles that busts up the enemy fleet. It overwhelms point defence through sheer numbers.

As an added bonus missiles and torpedoes don't have any penalty attacking land installations. And once the fight is over you can use them for bombardment.

Missile ships are good at the beginning. I just find their usefulness drastically plummets around the mid-game.

Saw some really wacky AI builds this last game. Captured a Doomstar and found 55 anti-matter bombs on it. Nice, I guess, if you expect that 1 ship to destroy an entire colony by itself. Which they would never do, because 1 Doomstar will rarely be table to take on a Star Fortress & ground defenses all by itself.

Assuming equivalent tech you mean. But that said it could teleport beside the base and curb stomp the ground defenses all it one turn if it had transporters too.

Missiles tend to drop off the moment people start using the broad spectrum missile defenses like lightning field. You can still overwhelm them with sheer numbers though.

On the defensive side, missile bases with pulson missiles can certainly pull their weight. Problem is since they are limited to 300 space the number of launchers drops dramatically.

Tamren wrote:

Assuming equivalent tech you mean. But that said it could teleport beside the base and curb stomp the ground defenses all it one turn if it had transporters too.

Fair enough, though it didn't have a sub-space transporter.

Tamren wrote:

Missiles tend to drop off the moment people start using the broad spectrum missile defenses like lightning field. You can still overwhelm them with sheer numbers though.

If the AI did beam defenses as much as it does missile defenses, then I'd be more inclined to go with some missile ships. As is, mid-game and later I find beam weapons just do that much better.