EVE Online - Catch All & new meat check-in

Nevin73 wrote:

Personally I find mining to be gawd-awful boring. I only do it to support a corp activity. I'd much rather be blowing stuff up.

Its also completely screwed up at this point. Veldspar, the most common and basic ore, is also the most profitable thing to mine outside of 0.0. This means that there is no reason to go into low-sec for mining since the best stuff is plentiful in (just about) every high-sec system.

Never mind that the amount of isk you can make mining outside of 0.0 will always be several times smaller than if you spent the same amount of time running level 4 missions.

Montalban wrote:

I've been thinking about getting into station trading, but it's intimidating and you need a lot of isk as capital. Set buy orders and then re-sell for a profit. I'm a long way from knowing how to hang with the big boy traders in Jita. There's also all that number crunching involved.

Don't hang out in Jita. Everyone with too much time in game trade there and you'll get into a lot of 0.01 price games. I would suggest a smaller hub and doing something more targeted. For example, named T1 items in a small hub area near low sec and 0.0 access points.

One such place that I know of is Agil. Lots of PVP happens past Agil and you'll get roamers loaded with loot ready to sell quick. You'll also get victims of those said roamers looking for quick items to round out their ship fittings and you still get decent margins, especially compared to Jita.

A good one to look at as an example is the named micro warp drives of all sizes. Check the buy and sell charts of that in Agil and look for areas that may offer the same kind of market movement elsewhere.

If you interested in trading, I'd suggest starting with ammunition. Find a few good mission hubs, and then look for the stations that seem to have a lot of traffic in and out of them, and move ammo to and from. You can get a HUGE markup, sometimes in the 200-300% range. There's other things, but the volume on ammo can't really be beat.

If you're set on missions, however, I'd suggest the following:

1. Train up destroyers; since you can already fly Gallente that step can be skipped, but your goal is a catalyst.
2. Once you can fly a dessie, train salvaging. L3 should be your minimum here, and L4 or L5 should be an eventual goal, doubly so with T2 salvagers available now.
3. As you're running missions(of whatever level you can handle well), bookmark a wreck in each 'room' between gates of your mission. Generally you want this to be the first ship you kill, and do so as soon as it's blown up. Wrecks despawn after two hours, and this gives you a reference for when they start poofing.
4. When the mission is done, get in your SALVACAT WAS FIT LIKE THE FOLLOWING: 4x tractors, 4x salvagers in highs, 1x mwd and cap rechargers in the mids, cargo expanders in the lows. This fit can hoover pretty much any L1, L2 or L3 mission in a single go.
5. Fill your loot can at your mission station.
6. When the can is full, transfer it to a hauler, and head to a trade hub for easy selling. My personal rule of thumb was this: reprocess any module worth less than 50k isk per module(that's important). If it's worth more than 50k isk, then sell it. Create sell orders if the best buy order is more than 5% less than the regional average; having a trade alt in the station helps with this, if you made one before the NCE.

I did this with L4 missions on my character, Aurea(Raven, Navy Issue with a perma-run shield tank, but I used a Hurricane(the battlecruiser :D) for my salvage boat, rigged). I could hoover ANY L4 mission in that setup, although I think there's one or two missions which required two runs in that beast.

Good tips Anime.

I just trained salvage up to L2 to see what it could do for me. Since I use drones for much of my punch I just loaded a tractor and salvager onto my Vexor and followed the drones around hoovering (as you so aptly put it) up the wrecks left behind. Although my hauls vary, I just did a L2 mission last night with over 1 million ISK in salvage. While I'm sure y'all can spin tales that make my haul look like chump change, it certainly beats what I was getting just running the missions alone.

I ran my first L3 mission last night in a Brutix loaded up with Tech1 gear. It was certainly much harder than the L2 missions I have been breezing through lately. They ate into my structure but I did finish the mission without warping out. I think I need to improve my armor tanking and possibly try to fit out for mission specific damage types. I was disappointed that my reward and salvage was no better than for a L2 mission.

Always fit for the mission specific damage.

http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MissionReports
Look up the mission, fit your tank to match the reported incoming damage types.

I use a Harbinger (Amarr battlecruiser) for my salvage boat, probably on par with the Hurricane. 1500 cargo, 5 salvagers, 3 tractors, both a MWD and a AB (AB when towing a can or a wreck, since a MWD will outrun the effect of the tractor).

Missions vary a lot, its possible to get a L4 mission that is no better than a L3 (loot/salvage/isk/LPs). But that tends to be the exception. So, while that first L3 may have been disappointing, others should be better.

Personally, I'd recommend against trying to make and sell ammo at mission hubs. Odds are you can't make it cheap enough to undercut the people lowball selling their ammo. What I do watch for is the occasions when the ammo is selling high at the mission hub, and cheap (i.e. cheaper than I can make it) somewhere else. That's when I haul it in, and hope it sells out before someone else notices the niche, and undercuts me. And that happens all the time. Might be better somewhere else, but the two mission hubs I watch (Irjunen and Motsu), that's the norm there. Probably because they are too close to Jita.

Whatever trading niche you do find, expect someone to come along and undercut you. Expect it, and be ready to cut your ties and go find another niche to exploit. As long as you do that, you will be fine. Too many people expect to find a niche and camp there indefinately, then complain the game sucks. Eh, its Eve, its ALL PvP, ALL the time. Ship PvP, market PvP, forum PvP, 23/7.

LtWarhound wrote:

Personally, I'd recommend against trying to make and sell ammo at mission hubs. Odds are you can't make it cheap enough to undercut the people lowball selling their ammo. What I do watch for is the occasions when the ammo is selling high at the mission hub, and cheap (i.e. cheaper than I can make it) somewhere else. That's when I haul it in, and hope it sells out before someone else notices the niche, and undercuts me. And that happens all the time. Might be better somewhere else, but the two mission hubs I watch (Irjunen and Motsu), that's the norm there. Probably because they are too close to Jita.

Note that I said NOTHING about making ammo. What I'm talking about is buying from one location on the way cheap, and hauling to a mission hub and selling at a 200-300% markup. If you're really looking, you can easily get away with a 500% or better markup. So essentially, you just made the same suggestion I did As for trading niches, undercuts are easily dealt with. If they're undercutting by pennies, ignore them. If they're undercutting by dollars, buy them out to support your monopoly.

Oh, and with BCs, you can skip the AB. Kitted out with cargohold expanders, you have so much mass that you'll generally run out of cap before you're outrunning your tractor beams.

AnimeJ wrote:

If they're undercutting by pennies, ignore them. If they're undercutting by dollars, buy them out to support your monopoly.

Don't know what markets you're in, but for me this would be a recipe for making almost nothing. Why would you ignore someone that had undercut you?

Just a friendly question, please don't take this as an insult mind you. I'm always interested to hear how other people go about trading.

Oh and total agreement here about manufacturing ammo vs. trading it. Almost without exception T1 manufacturing is for suckers, which is really a shame. Pretty much any profits you might be able to make would probably triple or more by just using buy orders.

Ignoring people who undercut by .01 isk? Eventually, they'll move on to something else. Keep at your price point, and ignore them until they move on to the next big thing. If you really want to bother with it, change your sell orders to match their price, but that's more effor than I'd give them. If they're undercutting you by 10s of isk? Then you buy them out, and keep up the monopoly.

AnimeJ wrote:

Ignoring people who undercut by .01 isk? Eventually, they'll move on to something else. Keep at your price point, and ignore them until they move on to the next big thing.

Until they "move on to the next big thing" you will make zero ISK. If you're off somewhere in a small regional market and you know the competitor's stock is very limited I could see just waiting them out, but in any kind of larger hub there is always going to be someone playing the 0.01 ISK lower game. I've sold everything from ammo to ships and moon mineral reactions, and constant price adjustments on your buy/sell orders is just part of the trading game.

Elycion wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

Ignoring people who undercut by .01 isk? Eventually, they'll move on to something else. Keep at your price point, and ignore them until they move on to the next big thing.

Until they "move on to the next big thing" you will make zero ISK. If you're off somewhere in a small regional market and you know the competitor's stock is very limited I could see just waiting them out, but in any kind of larger hub there is always going to be someone playing the 0.01 ISK lower game. I've sold everything from ammo to ships and moon mineral reactions, and constant price adjustments on your buy/sell orders is just part of the trading game.

This has been my experience too. The price adjustment game is how Eve simulates the ability for a market to be shared. In real life the market for any good will probably have several competing products that vary based on many factors such as price, quality, availability, etc. Through those variations people choose different products and the market it divided. In Eve, the only differentiating factor a merchant/manufacturer has is price. As such, its the only way a market can be shared. Not the best system by any means, but that's the way it is.

Also, setting your order to match someone else's price is generally not advisable either. In that case the game gives precedence to whichever order has been up longer. Better to just go .01 isk lower and be done with it.

I know I often bought based on price and convienience, just as I do in real life.

Nevin73 wrote:

I know I often bought based on price and convienience, just as I do in real life.

I should clarify what I mean by 'market' for Eve -- essentially all of the listed orders for one item in one station or system. Convenience and location are of course hugely important.

AnimeJ wrote:

Oh, and with BCs, you can skip the AB. Kitted out with cargohold expanders, you have so much mass that you'll generally run out of cap before you're outrunning your tractor beams.

Maybe its my implants or skills, with but two Cap Recharger IIs, and that named 10 MN MWD runs full out, with the salvagers and tractors going, I don't recall ever capping out, even when running to some wreck 80 to 90 km away. And yes, I've outran the tractor beam when using a MWD, dropping the can I was towing.

That's part of what I like about the Harbinger, I just don't cap out. Running the same setup on a Muninn, I think I did cap out running the MWD. Yes, I used a HAC as a salvage boat, I had it lying around handy, why not.

I admit I don't play the 0.01ISK game in the market. If I undercut, its by hundreds or thousands of ISK. I'll slash profit down to the bone, almost, then wait to get undercut again, then buy them out and relist everything. Gotta love the 'I mine/recycled for the minerals, so they are free!' crowd.

LtWarhound wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

Oh, and with BCs, you can skip the AB. Kitted out with cargohold expanders, you have so much mass that you'll generally run out of cap before you're outrunning your tractor beams.

Maybe its my implants or skills, with but two Cap Recharger IIs, and that named 10 MN MWD runs full out, with the salvagers and tractors going, I don't recall ever capping out, even when running to some wreck 80 to 90 km away. And yes, I've outran the tractor beam when using a MWD, dropping the can I was towing.

That's part of what I like about the Harbinger, I just don't cap out. Running the same setup on a Muninn, I think I did cap out running the MWD. Yes, I used a HAC as a salvage boat, I had it lying around handy, why not.

I rarely had wrecks spaced that far out, but most of my issue was that I had several tractors/salvagers running at once; just the MWD is fine, but not the MWD+5xtractors+3xsalvagers. That'll chew through the cap on anything.

LtWarhound wrote:

I admit I don't play the 0.01ISK game in the market. If I undercut, its by hundreds or thousands of ISK. I'll slash profit down to the bone, almost, then wait to get undercut again, then buy them out and relist everything. Gotta love the 'I mine/recycled for the minerals, so they are free!' crowd.

I've never really been a .01 isker either; too much effort involved. The cool thing about ammo, especially in mission hubs, is that most folks don't really get involved there. Most of the .01 isk games tend to be played in the trade hubs. But, in general for ammo you can sell +/- 5% of regional average and your inventories will trickle out at a fairly steady rate, with no adjustment needed.

I finally skilled up to gain access to T2 drones so that has helped with my mission running. L2 missions are a breeze. L3 missions are still a challenge. I just sold my Brutix and decided to pick up a Myrmidon, which seems to be the droneboat battlecruiser. Hopefully that will help a bit on the L3 missions. I ran one last night with 800k in rewards and about 2 mil in salvage. Thats good money! However, it took forever to salvage the mission in my brutix, which was equipped without a tractor and a single salvager. Unilke L2 missions where I can equip my Vexor for salvage only and let the drones kill everything, I need to go in all guns firing on the L3 missions. As a result, I have taken Anime's advice and rigged up a cruiser as a salvage boat. Still haven't tried it out yet but hopefully that will speed things up for me.

Found my first wormhole and ended up in nullsec. Stuck around too long and got attacked by smartbombs; but managed to take the wormhole back to highsec before he could destroy my little ship.

Copingsaw wrote:

I finally skilled up to gain access to T2 drones so that has helped with my mission running. L2 missions are a breeze. L3 missions are still a challenge. I just sold my Brutix and decided to pick up a Myrmidon, which seems to be the droneboat battlecruiser. Hopefully that will help a bit on the L3 missions. I ran one last night with 800k in rewards and about 2 mil in salvage. Thats good money! However, it took forever to salvage the mission in my brutix, which was equipped without a tractor and a single salvager. Unilke L2 missions where I can equip my Vexor for salvage only and let the drones kill everything, I need to go in all guns firing on the L3 missions. As a result, I have taken Anime's advice and rigged up a cruiser as a salvage boat. Still haven't tried it out yet but hopefully that will speed things up for me.

Myrm is a nice boat for Lvl 3, but I'd be tempted to slap some T2 railguns on, as there are a few missions wherein if you don't pick off some of the ships far out, you'll be in danger of getting swamped (eg The Blockade or Warehouse Delivery). I'd also skill up your remote armor repair skills, then you can stick a remote repper into a hi slot once your mission is complete and fix your little drones without sending them to the repair shop.....T2 drones aren't cheap.

davet010 wrote:

Myrm is a nice boat for Lvl 3, but I'd be tempted to slap some T2 railguns on, as there are a few missions wherein if you don't pick off some of the ships far out, you'll be in danger of getting swamped (eg The Blockade or Warehouse Delivery). I'd also skill up your remote armor repair skills, then you can stick a remote repper into a hi slot once your mission is complete and fix your little drones without sending them to the repair shop.....T2 drones aren't cheap.

Yah, the Myrm has been fantastic so far. A joy to fly. Perhaps I have just been getting easy missions but it's got barely a scratch on it. T2 drones have been ripping the Amarr a new one. Thanks for the tip on the remote repair skills. I did lose a T2 drone just last night.

Copingsaw wrote:
davet010 wrote:

Myrm is a nice boat for Lvl 3, but I'd be tempted to slap some T2 railguns on, as there are a few missions wherein if you don't pick off some of the ships far out, you'll be in danger of getting swamped (eg The Blockade or Warehouse Delivery). I'd also skill up your remote armor repair skills, then you can stick a remote repper into a hi slot once your mission is complete and fix your little drones without sending them to the repair shop.....T2 drones aren't cheap.

Yah, the Myrm has been fantastic so far. A joy to fly. Perhaps I have just been getting easy missions but it's got barely a scratch on it. T2 drones have been ripping the Amarr a new one. Thanks for the tip on the remote repair skills. I did lose a T2 drone just last night.

Sometimes going with sentry drones can be fun as well, especially if things are in the 40k range when you start. If you use sentry drones I would suggest you also fit a remote shield repper to keep the drones nice and happy.

Ello ZZ, not seen you on for a bit. Remember to pop into the gwj channel next time you are on.

Does anyone know if you are or are not allowed to sell items when you have a trial account? I'm trying to sell some random junk I picked up off some salvage, but I don't seem to be able to. I'm looking in the Market Details, under Buy Orders. I found one that is listed as the same station as I am in, but when I right click it does not give me any option to sell. I tried placing the item in my ship and in my station hold, but neither worked.

Last I checked, trial accounts couldn't create contracts but selling should be as simple as putting the item into your station inventory, right clicking it, and selecting sell.

Elycion wrote:

Last I checked, trial accounts couldn't create contracts but selling should be as simple as putting the item into your station inventory, right clicking it, and selecting sell.

Indeed. Make sure you're right clicking the item you want to sell, not the buy order.

Make sure it's in the station hold, right click, sell. If nothing comes up, then it can't be sold on market.

From the other thread:

Copingsaw wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

I'd have to see your current skillset, but with that in hand even not being familiar with drone boats and the like, I could build a progression path that would get you there pdq. It's not really that hard to do, especially if you're handy with EFT and EVEMon(I used to teach the course on these for E-Uni; you could say I wrote the book on it).

I'll take you up on that offer. I've just made it to a L3 agent, 14 quality so I'm probably not that far off from being capable of running L4. You need my API or what? I have both EFT and EveMon installed. I've got like 4.7 million skill points but a large chunk of that is dedicated to skills other than combat. We should continue this discussion in the other thread ...

That or just loading your character to ineve.net or something like that. Ineve would probably work better, as I don't have EFT or EVEMon loaded on this machine.

AnimeJ wrote:

That or just loading your character to ineve.net or something like that. Ineve would probably work better, as I don't have EFT or EVEMon loaded on this machine.

Okay, I'll figure it out when I have a free minute and let you know. Thanks!

Here is a link to a pretty solid looking guide for flying a domi. Down the road, you can swap some of the Nos for Railguns when you've got the skills in them. It's also got a pretty good rundown on handling the missions themselves, although you won't always start out 70km, or even be able to get that far out. However, that's what the heavy/light/medium drones are for

I think this link should bring up my character info.

AnimeJ wrote:

Here is a link to a pretty solid looking guide for flying a domi. Down the road, you can swap some of the Nos for Railguns when you've got the skills in them. It's also got a pretty good rundown on handling the missions themselves, although you won't always start out 70km, or even be able to get that far out. However, that's what the heavy/light/medium drones are for :)

That's a fantastic guide. It tells me everything I need to train for ... which is a lot, probably a couple of months worth. Gotta train up for those heavy drones I guess.

Why don't you move around your attributes a bit to get your training times down some. I don't think having a memory that high and a willpower that low is going to help you much if your targeting drone/gunnery/ship skills. Maybe you could take 2 points from memory and 2 points from charisma to help out those training times a bit.

Zaque wrote:

Why don't you move around your attributes a bit to get your training times down some. I don't think having a memory that high and a willpower that low is going to help you much if your targeting drone/gunnery/ship skills. Maybe you could take 2 points from memory and 2 points from charisma to help out those training times a bit.

Good point. I know they've implemented a system that allows me to do that now, I just haven't taken the time to try it out. Will do.

Copingsaw wrote:
Zaque wrote:

Why don't you move around your attributes a bit to get your training times down some. I don't think having a memory that high and a willpower that low is going to help you much if your targeting drone/gunnery/ship skills. Maybe you could take 2 points from memory and 2 points from charisma to help out those training times a bit.

Good point. I know they've implemented a system that allows me to do that now, I just haven't taken the time to try it out. Will do.

Use EVEMon to do this. Build up a skill plan that includes everything you think you'd like to train for the next year in EVEMon and then use the built in attribute calculator to see what's optimal. You can save months of training time this way now.