EVE Online - Catch All & new meat check-in

I'm thinking of coming back in - took the 5 days. But I don't remember a lot; I could not even get point-and-click guidance to work for my ships again.

Anyone have an easygoing corp that could use a miner, ratter and good-in-a-group fighter? (I SUCK at solo fights. I don't know why.) I can scout okay, too. Or at least I used to.

Robear wrote:

I'm thinking of coming back in - took the 5 days. But I don't remember a lot; I could not even get point-and-click guidance to work for my ships again.

Anyone have an easygoing corp that could use a miner, ratter and good-in-a-group fighter? (I SUCK at solo fights. I don't know why.) I can scout okay, too. Or at least I used to. :-)

I did this too, and have just been hanging out in a combination of NPC corp and GWJ chat, but noone was on last night.

I pop in and out to run a few missions now and then...

I'm in my girlfriend's own corp, which doesn't do anything together (I mine/train, and do afk stuff, and she runs her missions) It's our own little haven. Created before the NPC tax.

armedbushido wrote:

I pop in and out to run a few missions now and then...

CHOOSE YOUR TAG, MAN!

Easy going? How 'bout Really Nice and Laidback? I think our Empire corp is still considering recruits (RNALY). Drop by channel RNAL and say howdy...

http://rnal.org

Fear the llamas...

I'm usually around in GWJ channel, but in UK/EU timezone times, as 'Elizabeth Lockley'.

Playing! Still very new but enjoying it so far.

I am in and out - aka Khyron

I'm back in as Rexneron.

Brought this over here to stop crapping up the STO thread

Tamren wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

90-120 days and you *should* be capable of a lot of things.

You can stop there. Its easy to say "sink 3 or 4 months into a game and you will be good at things". But what you really just said was pay 20 bucks to buy the game and another 60 in monthly fees. What bothers me is that extra cost is MANDATORY. There is no other way to train skills other than watch timers tick down to zero. Its certainly not for everyone. I just couldn't enjoy it if I could measure how much money per hour it costs me to learn how to clap my hands.

Put me on the list as a "maybe". I kicked my MMO habit after WoW so this is going to have to be good to get me back on the wagon. I'll give open beta a go and see whats what.

Honestly, I really fail to see how it's any different from any other MMO out there. WoW at this point is honestly even more than that if you want access to all content off the bat. But the time to level cap there hasn't really changed much; it's still around 14 days total time spent ingame to get there, plus whatever time you need spent at the cap; 3 months honestly isn't that bad IMO.

In my mind, that's where EVE really pulls ahead. When I hit the 4 month point in EVE, I could already fly several ship classes. I had bought my first battleship and was soloing L4 missions. I could fly a CovOps Frigate. I could fly Assault Ships. I could very nearly fly Heavy Assault Ships. Those last three listed, btw, are all advanced hulls.

The good thing about EVE, on the other hand is that you can be completely useful to a fleet within a week of playing. Is it a glorious role? Not especially. Will you die? Most likely. But if you're interested in mass PvP in the least, I'd like to see any other game match that. The same goes for PvE as well. Ratting, Mining and Mission running can all be done capably by new characters. I've seen guides out there to get a new character into a ship that can solo any of the level 4 missions out there in less than a month. To equate those examples to WoW, it's like loading up the game and being useful in a level 80 BG in PvP terms, or being able to run level 80 daily quests within a couple weeks of starting your very first character.

Some folks are incapable of enjoying an MMO unless they feel that they can play at the "top end" very rapidly. Someone who is accustomed to buying a new MMO, then catassing their way to maximum level in the trial month just isn't going to be happy with EVE's progression scheme. That's OK, it's not the game for everyone.

All the MMOs have some version of the grind, it's a necessary component to keep people paying monthly dues. In EVE you cannot grind the character attributes (skills/levels) so the grind is purely financial and social.

Elycion wrote:

Some folks are incapable of enjoying an MMO unless they feel that they can play at the "top end" very rapidly. Someone who is accustomed to buying a new MMO, then catassing their way to maximum level in the trial month just isn't going to be happy with EVE's progression scheme. That's OK, it's not the game for everyone.

All the MMOs have some version of the grind, it's a necessary component to keep people paying monthly dues. In EVE you cannot grind the character attributes (skills/levels) so the grind is purely financial and social.

Oddly enough, the grind in EVE isn't really financial, if you mean ISK. Depending on your first character, you can come to a point very quickly where money just doesn't mean a whole lot. Solo mission running, mining, exploration, there's a lot of avenues to this. I'd say that trading is probably the best way to do this; I know folks who make 50-100 million ISK a day station trading goods across a region.

As for playing at the highest level, that's really one of the things I love about EVE. With one or two exceptions, it's entirely possible to be at a point where you can do high end content very, very quickly. Doesn't matter if it's PvE or PvP. I was working it out the other night while on a free 5 day pass, and when it's all said and done, running the next to highest tier missions(level 4s) solo will take you roughly 4 million skill points(SP). I know it sounds like a lot, but it's really not. Your first 1.6 million SP train at double the normal training rate; skills which you learn at 2300SP/hr are now running at 4600SP/hr. In general, it's entirely possible to train 1-1.5 million SP a month; your first 1.6 mil should take no more than two weeks. On top of that, implants and skills are available to speed up that time requirement.

So, back to before I got side tracked: what it takes to run L4 missions at the bare minimum. You'll need a Battleship. Probably the easiest to do this in would be a missle boat, as opposed to lasers, guns, or artillery. Anyway, assuming you charged hard on this, how long would it take you? Bare minimum, probably 5-6 weeks. My main has 16 or 17 million SP, and I'll use around 6 million SP to fly it, directly or indirectly. I mention indirect because things like SP in Cruisers, Frigates, etc don't help much. But that's all it takes; as you can see, it's really not that much.

All told, EVE isn't really as intense as people think it is. Yes, it's time consuming. But isn't every other MMO out there, with skill based MMOs being the worst offenders? Galaxies was like this too, you know. Except in Galaxies, a brand new player in the game for a week was useless largely whereas with EVE, this isn't the case. I've seen players with literally less than 24 hours spent in EVE, in PvP fleets, getting killmails and being productive. I'd love to see any other game make that same boast.

AnimeJ wrote:
Elycion wrote:

Some folks are incapable of enjoying an MMO unless they feel that they can play at the "top end" very rapidly. Someone who is accustomed to buying a new MMO, then catassing their way to maximum level in the trial month just isn't going to be happy with EVE's progression scheme. That's OK, it's not the game for everyone.

All the MMOs have some version of the grind, it's a necessary component to keep people paying monthly dues. In EVE you cannot grind the character attributes (skills/levels) so the grind is purely financial and social.

Oddly enough, the grind in EVE isn't really financial, if you mean ISK. Depending on your first character, you can come to a point very quickly where money just doesn't mean a whole lot. Solo mission running, mining, exploration, there's a lot of avenues to this. I'd say that trading is probably the best way to do this; I know folks who make 50-100 million ISK a day station trading goods across a region.

Not only that, if you do call the grind in EVE financial, you can easily make enough ISK playing to pay for you gametime as well as having a bit extra on the side to get new gadgets with.

I'm enjoying it - definitely hooked. It helps to come in so late after all of the expansion content.

Heh, ya, its had some expansions, but it keeps getting more. They roll them out twice a year, roughly.

LtWarhound wrote:

Heh, ya, its had some expansions, but it keeps getting more. They roll them out twice a year, roughly.

Indeed. I think out of all MMOs out there, EVE is probably the best value if you hang around for the long term; at last count, I think they're at around 10-12 expansions and have added a fair amount of extra content in the form of skills, ships and space. The recent expansion adding Wormhole Space was particularly big, expanding the EVE world by roughly 40%.

Another big one was the New Player Experience. I'm not a huge fan of it, as it makes it much harder to create alts for specific purposes, but overall I think it's a better experience for new players, and you'll learn a lot more about how the skilltraining system works. Also, the increased training time for your first 1.6 million SP more than makes up for that deficit vs old alts.

I am back in, finals + holidays + flu, all got in the way for awhile.
Although i still think iam in the wrong vent channel for GWJ vent lol.

frozencanadian wrote:

I am back in, finals + holidays + flu, all got in the way for awhile.
Although i still think iam in the wrong vent channel for GWJ vent lol.

Not sure people are hanging out in vent for this game. Join the GWJ chat channel in-game and you should find a few people in there throughout the day.

Rexneron wrote:
frozencanadian wrote:

I am back in, finals + holidays + flu, all got in the way for awhile.
Although i still think iam in the wrong vent channel for GWJ vent lol.

Not sure people are hanging out in vent for this game. Join the GWJ chat channel in-game and you should find a few people in there throughout the day.

Yea, if you're really after chat with Goodjers, hop onto the ingame channel and use EVE Voice. It's got really good sound quality, although it's subject to going down if the server does.

What sorts of things are you guys doing? Any insights into PvP or other trickier activities?

I fitted my Rifter for some fightin', did my best to scan from various waypoints but found nothing to kill.

vbl wrote:

What sorts of things are you guys doing? Any insights into PvP or other trickier activities?

As usual, I am sitting in a station watching the camera orbit my ship while using EVE as a subscription chat client to talk to my friends. One of these days I really need to commit to actually playing again.

My insight into the trickier activities is this: Apply to EVE University. Joining them is probably the best thing a new player to this game can do. Very few people have the mindset it takes to learn EVE solo and enjoy it, and even if you have that mindset a few months in EVE U would teach you a ton of useful skills.

vbl wrote:

What sorts of things are you guys doing? Any insights into PvP or other trickier activities?

I fitted my Rifter for some fightin', did my best to scan from various waypoints but found nothing to kill.

Well, if all you'd like to do is find out how ships kill each other, I suggest a trip to Rancer or Amamake. There are usually pirates hanging out there and you'll find how quickly fights resolve themselves. Actually learning how to fight is a different activity. I'd 2nd EVE University. Agony's PVP school ain't too bad either.

EVE U is pretty much the best place to get your start as a new pilot. Agony Unleashed is a pretty decent PvP instruction corp, but they charge. Seppuku Warriors, if they're still around have a fairly decent bunch of instructors; a fair few are former EVE Uni instructors/directors.

Beyond that, Rancer or Amamake will teach you how PvP is done: with overwhelming numbers and skill. Very rarely will you encounter a 'fair' fight.

Sepukku Warriors merged into Evolution.

Second the recommendation that you try Eve Univerisity as a new player. I'll try to remember to give some feedback on Agony Unleashed's PvP Basic class, I intend to attend the one this month.

Currently, I'm playng casually, solo. Some market pvp on a very small scale. Doing missions, fiddling with ships, rounding out my skill set. I'm up to the point where I can fit (T2 mostly) and fly pretty much anything smaller than a cap ship, all races. Can't fly freighters, T2 battleships, T2 mining ships, transports, logistics cruisers or T3 cruisers, but that's it. So, I'm slowly buying new ships, and fitting them, flying them in missions, trying to get away with the least possible ship/fit, to enhance my understanding of the game. Haven't lost a ship lately, but I've come close, figuring out that yep, this ship can't do this L4, next!

Nighthawks and CNRs are soooo OP for running L4s in Caldari space.

LtWarhound wrote:

Nighthawks and CNRs are soooo OP for running L4s in Caldari space.

I find the Nighthawk just as lacking for missions, as the Drake. They both have insane tanks, which you have to trade off for adequate damage, which the Nighthawk still preserves. However, they're both very short range for missile boats, and for that range they're slow.
If you want a little more challenge for missions, but still pretty much steamroll them the Cerberus is your choice. Combining the resists of the Nighthawk, and Drake it adds smaller signature radius, hit range far above your targeting range, and speed it makes things interesting. If you count the ranges, and speeds it can manage versus the slightly lower damage output versus the Nighthawk the overall mission completion time remains the same.
Plus, when you end up in a very damaging situation the Nighthawk will pretty much crumble, but the Cerberus would not be caught in such a position. Tackled, sure, but at least 50km from the main incoming damage.

Next to the several missile vessels mentioned above drone boats are also very excellent, and fast to get into. You may very well skip cruisers, and use the Myrmidon until you have the Dominix trained, which is mere days. You can focus all your slots on tanking, and add a gun or 2 to draw agression. With the recent Autocannon changes they're the perfect choice on a Myrmidon, as it does not have any gun bonuses. You more often see a Myrmidon in PvP fielding Projectile, or Energy turrets, rather than Hybrids

Hmm, dunno what hit range you are expecting, but I'm getting 65k plus with my nighthawk, plus I don't think there is a great deal of comparison in tank between the nighthawk and the cerb. If you want a passive tanking missile boat and have the proper drone skills, try the Gila. A cruiser with 400km drone bay and 125 bandwidth, just unleash them Ogre IIs and make a cup of tea.

All the Level 4 talk is like a time warp back to 2006 here. Prior to various ship changes all you heard about was how awesome Nighthawks were. The truth is that the passively tanked mission runner is only ideal for people with unstable connections, or who want to AFK through missions (aside from coming back and hitting F1 every so often.)

Level 4 missions are all about generating ISK and using a battlecruiser, command ship, or HAC limits your DPS and therefore your ISK per hour is reduced. If you just want to fly the "cool" ship, (and there is nothing wrong with that!) then use whatever, but a battleship is always going to get you through a Level 4 faster. There is no Level 4 out there that cannot be cleared with a properly fitted Raven, Dominix, or Abaddon, and they will all do it faster.

Like I said before, there's nothing wrong with using alternate ships, it can be fun. I hate seeing new folks steered to the boutique ships though, because they take more skills to fly effectively. A newbie can be up and running Level 4's in a Raven or Dominix in very little time, but trying to rush into a HAC or Command Ship is generally a recipe for an expensive explosion.

Actually, there is a great deal of comparison between the two tanks. My Nighthawk is omni-passive, minimum of 82% resists, 13k shields. Can't do even close to that in a Cerebus. Haven't found a mission I couldn't just warp in, park and ignore the damage coming in at me. If I did find the damage enough to overwhelm my tank, I'd just switch to a focused tank, 95.4% thermal resist, 94.2% kin resist, EHP 200K+ vs Gurista. And I'd still have the same firepower.

Range? I don't have perfect missile skills, but I'm getting 73.5km range. And hitting harder than a Cerebus, thanks to one more launcher, with the same rate of fire and better explosion velocity (so it works better against frigates and drones). Yes, the HAC has better range, but when do I need that range in a L4? Not often. Worlds Collide, first room, for example, but then the second and third room is right back to short range.

The speed is rather nice on the Cerebus, but I'd rather park in one spot, let them come to me, die, and make a neat pile for the salvage ship. As opposed to run&gun, keeping the distance open, and having the wrecks scattered all around. I may not have an AB on this loadout, but 175 is acceptable for puttering around in missions.

Highs: 6xHML IIs, Small Tractor
Mids: 2xInvul II, EM hardener II, 2xLarge Shield Extenders II or 2xTherm II 2xKin II, LSE II
Lows: 3xBCS II, DC II, SPR II

I'm not denigrating the Cerebus. Its a lovely ship, really. I fly a Muninn, for much the same reasons, speed, agility and firepower. Its just that a Nighthawk does almost everything I could need for L4s in Caldari space, where you mostly end up fighting Gurista. If I could find a way to autoload the launchers and autoturn them back on, then it would be perfect. Except I'd have to skill up FOF missiles, and get BPOs for them.

As far as wanting a challenge in L4s, I wouldn't use a HAC. Instead, I take in sub-optimal ships, and see if I can make it work. Like a Cyclone. Or an Assault Ship, like a Jaguar. Yes, I have a Minmatar bias. Heck, I commonly run L4s in a Typhoon (not event a Fleet Typhoon).

Have to disagree, Elycion. Too many missions have too many small ships. Its really annoying taking down hordes of frigates and cruisers with large guns or cruise missiles. Having a ship that can chew through the smaller targets faster, and still take down battleships handily and runs a tank that's excessive, I'm cutting through missions faster than with my CNR, and with a lot less fuss and bother than with my Dominix.

The Nighthawk, with a solid set of skills and good kit, and rigs, really is all that, and a bag of chips.

For newer players, sure, they can't fit and run a ship like this. They just don't have the skillpoints. Its a lot faster, a lot more efficient for them to snag a Raven. Or a Armageddon (funny anecdote, I was in the middle of a mission last night, decided I had enough data on how the amarr battlecruisers worked, left the mission, flew a couple of jumps to buy my first Amarr battleship - an Armageddon, fitted it out and finished the mission with time to spare. Yes, I like to fly a lot of different things).