Fallout: New Vegas - Fall 2010

You know, when you compare this thing to charging along behind that awesome robot from Fallout 3 -- well, let's just say it reminds me a lot of Deus Ex 2.

Malor wrote:

This is a write-only post; I've avoided this thread to maintain as much surprise as possible, so I'm just adding in my comments without reading a damn thing anyone else has written. So I may repeat other complaints, or talk about things that have been fixed, or just sound ignorant in general.

Sorry to hear you didn't like it, but it would be really swell if you used spoiler tags.

This is a write-only post; I've avoided this thread to maintain as much surprise as possible, so I'm just adding in my comments without reading a damn thing anyone else has written. So I may repeat other complaints, or talk about things that have been fixed, or just sound ignorant in general.

This is a far inferior game to Fallout 3. It is buggy as hell. It is incoherent. It's poorly plotted. They've jacked the difficulty into the absolute stratosphere on some creatures ("hardened bots" and Deathclaws are two that I've spotted), and never really give you the tools you need to fight them. Even with a character that blew through the endgame while taking only minor damage, just one Deathclaw is enough to take him out almost instantly. Just one. Even in full Power Armor.

Lots of spoilers:

Spoiler:

I had two companions, Boone and Veronica. When I went into the Legion camp, Boone essentially refused to follow me, so when I told him we should part ways, he ended up disappearing entirely from the game. No mention in the endgame, just didn't seem to exist anymore. Maybe I just didn't look in the right place, but I never found him again.

The whole Brotherhood of Steel section was bugged all to hell. I managed to eventually more or less get through it, but it was permanently stuck on the elder 'awaiting charges from Hardin'. I got through some quests with Veronica about the Brotherhood, but I got the impression that there was a bunch more stuff that I missed.

The only way I found to get a dress for Veronica was to kill Marjorie in the dressy casino, but I never really found any particular reason to do so. Got the impression that something bad was going on with them, but was never able to find any real evidence, other than some human skulls in the pantry. In the aborted version of the game where I triggered the White Whatevers to go hostile by going into their private area, and killed Marjorie, having Veronica teach me the new technique didn't actually seem to teach me anything.

The endgame was just kind of weird -- you don't actually fight anyone you've met, and the overall fight was ridiculously easy. I think those Legion guys are supposed to be tough, but that All-American rifle with 100 gun skill is a freaking hammer, and everyone's head is a nail.

I'm sorry, but this game really rather sucked. It did have moments. There were some good voices, and some interesting bits. But, taken as a whole, it barely holds together. It's not worth the price of admission. For $20, it'd be worth it, but not full price.

Oops, thought this was a spoiler thread, wasn't thinking. Sorry.

gains wrote:

I think I remember That Gun from Fallout 1. "A rifle loving crafted and cut down into a pistol," or something like that? Wasn't there another one that was Deckard's gun from Blade Runner?

I'm pretty sure that "That Gun" is the Bladerunner gun.

More "confirmation," http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/That_Gun

Also, Puce. any story driven Vegas shenanigans in the works yet?

Funny you should ask! Actually, I started work on a small adventure module just a few days ago. I think I'm going to lump all of my New Vegas adventure mods into an ever growing chapter system, similar to the way I handled In the Shadow of the Swamp, but with each chapter not necessarily being a continuation of the one that came before it. This will let me reference/use content from previous chapters, made trouble shooting easier, and let me dish out some smaller adventure without feeling like I need to do a 3-4 month long project for each chapter.

The first chapter is probably a week or so away; I'm aiming for it be about 50% longer than Episiode I of In the Shadow of the Swamp. Starting small seems wise following a migration to a new game, especially with the 'onus of bug richness' that seems to follow New Vegas.

Malor wrote:

This is a far inferior game to Fallout 3. It is buggy as hell. It is incoherent. It's poorly plotted. They've jacked the difficulty into the absolute stratosphere on some creatures ("hardened bots" and Deathclaws are two that I've spotted), and never really give you the tools you need to fight them. Even with a character that blew through the endgame while taking only minor damage, just one Deathclaw is enough to take him out almost instantly. Just one. Even in full Power Armor.

I think all of the Fallout games are very hit and miss. They all have awesome things tucked away that you may never come across. I think this is true for Fallout 1, 2 and Fallout 3 as well as New Vegas.

I thought the plot behind the main story of New Vegas was great but becomes so open ended by the middle to leave the player wondering what to do and to leave the game to get buggier and buggier.

I disagree with the Deathclaw complaint. They are positioned as a force to be avoided, and it's easy to do this. Same with the flying bug things. The Deathclaws are easily stopped with a high powered rifle and a Sneak Attack Critical once your character hits level 20 or so on Normal. I took out a whole camp and they didn't even know where the bullets were coming from.

There are many more situations in New Vegas where you can inadvertently kill an important quest character and end a quest before knowing it was over. You can also just never trigger the few events that lead to that quest and even when you do, much of the "good" quests are more about interesting ideas than well executed gameplay.

The White Glove Society is actually quite similar to the excellent Point Lookout in FO3

Spoiler:

There is a man right when you enter The Ultra Luxe that tells you about his missing son. Following through this lead takes you towards an investigation, sneaking around, and eventually confronting the White Glove Society with their problems. Some bits become a little tricky since without smuggling a weapon into the casino, you will be attacked by armed White Glove Society goons and have nothing to defend yourself with. Giving Veronica ANY white glove society outfit (or maybe dress), even the goons, will have her teach you that tactic.

This whole quest line is then complicated by the fact that a man outside The Ultra Luxe tells you that the man who's son is missing is quite a horrible person. Who do you help? Helping one "bad" group means helping another "bad" group.

I thought that the faction stuff would have been more important and well executed, but it seems to be similar to the way it worked in FO1 or FO2. Mainly that a town either likes or dislikes you. You won't really encounter those guys much outside that area anyway so it doesn't really matter. I guess you do see NCR all over, so if you hate them, there will be consequences.

I would have liked to see groups of Khans fighting NCR outside of Vegas or something, where you can participate. Or situations where you can't do certain things because you killed some people from a certain group. I collected a ton of group outfits that I thought I'd need to use for disguises, but even when approaching the Khan's who said I was "vilified," they were all green and friendly. Something like what happens in GTA where you are at a border of two groups and you start a fight with one and your friendly NPCs come to defend you. That or a network of towns where town X likes another town, and if you are mean to that other one, they won't help you, etc.

gains wrote:

I think I remember That Gun from Fallout 1. "A rifle loving crafted and cut down into a pistol," or something like that? Wasn't there another one that was Deckard's gun from Blade Runner?

It's the same gun. The Fallout 1/Fallout 2 gun was based off of Deckard's.

BlackSheep wrote:

Just finished the game -- I rushed through the ending because I ended up a bit bored by level 26 from doing the questies.

Spoiler:

Pulled the 'Yes Man' line. The last battle was a bit of a downer, though the Legatus was one tough mofo. It was fun meeting the NCR again and telling them a thing or two about a thing or two.

I'm a sucker for cut-scenes so once I finish Batman and some more Civ V, I'll be rolling through this again.

FTFY

After trying every different setting I could think of (different levels of AA, different levels of AF, music on/off, different resolutions, various levels of details and shadows, bloom vs HDR, etc, etc, etc.) I think I've finally fixed my crashes. Like a lot of people I've been crashing constantly since I first started playing. The Goodsprings area was pretty stable but ever since I've left there I usually crash every 30 minutes or so. Sometimes the game just closes and dumps me to the desktop, but mostly it hard locks with a constant squeal sound from the speakers until I reboot. Finally I decided to give this Dx9 dll everyone keeps talking about a shot. I never thought about using it before because everyone was saying only to use it to fix stuttering and bad framerates which I've had none of even at the highest settings. Other than the crashing the performance of the game has been fine. Figured it couldn't hurt anything so I went ahead and put it in the folder. The game re-detected my video settings, found a completely different (and much less capable) card than what I actually have and basically set everything to the Low settings. That didn't seem like a good sign but I'm pretty desperate at this point to fix it before I snap my keyboard over my knee. I went through the advanced settings and cranked everything back up to where I had it before and I just played about 3 hours or so without a single crash. Oh man, I hope this really did it as I've just reached Novac and things seem to be picking up steam.

Was it pretty easy for you guys to avoid spoilers for FO3? I'm putting aside New Vegas for now. Not necessarily bailing on it, just setting it aside. I hate when games are on that tract where I feel like I have to keep on top of them or they'll get spoiled. Is that this game or am I okay, for the most part?

I actually think the opposite and think New Vegas is vastly superior to #3 and takes a more quest-based/faction based system like FO2. Better crafting system, sneak attack criticals are nerfed so that they're not better than everything else (That unique shotgun with a sneak critical could kill like any enemy in FO3 in one hit), I like the quest/faction system better than the karma system, stats are more meaningful, no more 100 skills in everything, no 300 books scattered in horrible impossible to find without wiki places, no goddamn subway, more balanced monsters. Deathclaws may be really strong, but the way FO3 thought how "Very hard" worked was by giving every wild monster a crapload of hp. If you didn't start out with a crit sneak attack, I would have to pump literally like 75-100 bullets from my chinese AK every white scorpion or super ghoul. Very hard in NV is actually manageable and doesn't feel like I'm shooting BB gun at a cement wall. Some of the collection missions in FO3 and the DLCs were so bad, it was as bad as vanilla WoW. Real time shooting is also way better than FO3.

If I would have to complain, it's that both FO3 and NV npc AI is still dumber than Fallout 2. In FO2 You could select conditions on where NPCs take stims, run away, attack, and they listen pretty well. Passive on NV still is shoot anything that's red on radar. ED-E actually aggros extra monsters, when it shoots its stupid red laser on something really far away. In Black Mountain

Spoiler:

When the Nightkin are being led away from the front gate, Veronica ran up and punched the nightkin. Thanks Felicia Lame

Or better yet, why can't they copy Arcanum, another ancient game. You could give real-time orders to attack targets, run away, follow with simple one button commands.

Also, as I wah wah ed before, the DT system makes a lot of burst weapons pretty sucky. I miss my Bozar

What`s all this "Deathlclaws are too stong now!" ? They`re supposed to be. The ultimate terror of the wasteland, a boogeyman every traveller is afraid of. FO3 had them so underpowered that it was ridiculous. I remember the tingling fear in FO2 when your character finds the Vault full of Deathclaws and all the time I was *afraid* to do the wrong thing, say the wrong thing because I knew that if they decided I was an enemy, they`d smear walls with me in couple of turns.

This really is a game with a wide variety of opinions and experiences, from one extreme to another on whatever scale you like.

mooosicle wrote:

I actually think the opposite and think New Vegas is vastly superior to #3

I agree. Bugs aside -- though I've been pretty fortunate in that I've only experienced crashes every four hours or so -- New Vegas is what wanted Fallout 3 to be.

Alien Love Gardener wrote:
mooosicle wrote:

I actually think the opposite and think New Vegas is vastly superior to #3

I agree. Bugs aside -- though I've been pretty fortunate in that I've only experienced crashes every four hours or so -- New Vegas is what wanted Fallout 3 to be.

Same here. Except some AI bugs, I've had a good experience with it. I don't like how the engine chugs along, but New Vegas has the original beat hands down.

Aside from finally making it to New Vegas, I haven't done much else this past week. Most of my game time went to leveling my new seraphim in Sacred 2.

I actually would fall on the side that thinks FO3 and new vegas are both about the same, both great games but not one is better than the other.

I think I burned out on this by spending too much time with it early on instead of pacing myself. Now, going back, I just feel frustrated that I can't get to a specific location because of land obstacles or brutally tough enemies. It's too bad because I really enjoyed the early parts of the game. Then I got over-burdened with quests. Then the game froze on me a couple times, requiring a hard reboot. Then RDR: Undead Nightmare came out...

I definitely like the game. I feel it's buggier than FO3, but the writing is stronger. There are a few quest duds, but I like the overall variety and multiple ways to accomplish tasks. I've ignored crafting for the most part. Companions are both necessary and annoying.

Things I miss from FO3 are the named travelling merchants (added more personality, imo) and the more frequent occurrence of random NPC encounters. It's probably just my perception, but I seem to recall seeing more wandering NPCs in FO3 and you'd see them fighting super mutants or raiders, or you'd hear something explode in the distance and be able to find out what it was. In NV, the far away gun fire seems to be part of the soundtrack not an actual gunfight (for the most part).

Also, back on companions, I wish they'd incorporated what some of the FO3 companion mods did, allowing you to send your companion to the nearest store to sell excess items for you -- like the pets in Torchlight. Beth/Obsidian also need to follow Bioware's lead to a certain extent in terms on companion interaction in dialogues with other NPCs. For the most part, companions are completely ignored by NPCs and never acknowledged in dialogue. It would have added a lot of flavour to have them chime in with their own dialogue at certain points (the way Mass Effect/Dragon Age companions do).

They should be ashamed of themselves for releasing such a sub-par game. The more bugs I encounter the less goodwill I have for this company. I feel ripped off. Apparently quality assurance is a task they find irrelevant or unseemly, because this game feels like it had none. It makes it impossible to get immersed and have that same "I'm in it" feeling I had with Fallout 3.

After I "finished" the main story line in Fallout 3, I would come home and just load up my character and explore the wasteland. It was something I really looked forward to doing at the end of my day. I did that for weeks on end, because I was completely engrossed with my character and the world he inhabited. All the bugs, lock-ups, crashes, etc. in New Vegas are preventing me from having a similar experience with this game. Just when I start to get into the game, something breaks.

Bethesda/Obsidian...get your sh*t together. Teams with less money, time, and talent have made games of better quality. I am sure it is a difficult and onerous task to test a game of this scope, but that does not mean you are given a pass to sell a game before it is finished. It is a very nice beta though. Congrats!

Maybe a game like this is just to difficult for you to do properly. Time to start thinking XBLA and iPhone games. Hacks.

That's my rant. Now back to playing this game in hopes I can wring some value from it.

I stumbled into this http://www.escapistmagazine.com/arti... (related to this) that echoes those points, and mirrors my thoughts from what I've read. I can't really write much more without duplicating what Shamus Young has already written.

It just gets to me that some people don't want to call a spade a spade, and it somehow has immunity from criticism because of the history of the earlier games/developer/publisher.

Shamus Young wrote:

There aren't that many hard-core western RPG developers left. Shouldn't we be demanding better? First person shooter fans can pick and choose among many games and developers, but fans of freeform exploration, branching plots, and complex leveling mechanics don't have that many options. I don't want to see Obsidian go under. I want to see Obsidian deliver a top-notch game that's not infested with bugs and glitches. This is simply not going to happen as long as gamers continue to accept sub-standard quality and make excuses for them.

This quote from him pretty much sums it up for me. Plus, it reminds me I am part of the problem. I have spent nearly $150 on New Vegas products (360, PC, and Guide), despite my feelings in regards to the game's quality. You can't give a bigger thumbs up than that. Like Dylan said, "money doesn't talk, it swears." But, again, who expects to pay $50 for a major title only to have to drop a hacked dx9.dll, distributed by fans, to make the game playable? Unbelievable.

Old man ranting again about Obsidian/Bethesda: If you're too lazy or inept to fix your bugs before release, then have a beta release and let the fans do your jobs for you. We'll get it done, because, unlike you, we give a sh*t.

One thing I find interesting is that with the ability of consoles to be patched has allowed some companies to reduce their quality rather than improve it. Shipping a game in the state that New Vegas did would be unthinkable on an 'old' console because it was almost impossible to patch it later.

Yeah, I've crashed to desktop a total of three times in 29 hours so. Other than that the only bugs I've encountered are clipping (getting stuck in walls or toilets) bugs, and the occasional side quest disappearing before it's run it's course. I just wish they would have spent a bit more time optimizing. I've been taking my time, and just decided to go into Freeside. As I approached the gate my fps dropped from a fairly steady 55-60 (never dropping below 45) all the way down to 8.

So I deceded to look in he dirextx fix, turns out I can't use the it because I'm running multiple monitors. The trouble of reconfiguring everything each time I wanted to play New Vegas was not an option. We shouldn't have to install alternate directx .dll's to get decent performance. It's a bit ridiculous that QA testing was obviously not a priority.

Still, the game is a lot of fun and I'm glad I purchased it.

Update: Apparently the performance issues are the fault of ATI and NVidia. Across basically every card produced by both manufactures.

What the hell type of system was Obsidian testing on? Intel integrated systems?

Did we kill the thread?

Scratched wrote:

Did we kill the thread?

I think the bugs have impeded the progress of a lot of people and that means a lot less stuff to talk about...accept bugs. I know my playthroughs are stagnating, just because I get frustrated when I do play. For those that take a Sandboxey approach to the game, the bugs might not be blockers. For the hardcore RPG playstyle, where you take your time and really try to build a character and explore the world, the bugs can easily break the spell. I try to take the world seriously, or as seriously as you can in a video game, so I don't want anything to remind me that there is a wizard (an incompetent one at that) behind the curtain.

If anyone heard Jeff Canata talk about the game on Weekend Confirmed, you know where I am coming from. I am feeling a similar type of frustration.

EDIT: As an example...The last bug I had was a severe and sudden drop in framerate. I had to reboot the game to make it go away. After the reboot, I just didn't want to play anymore that night. I tried to reproduce the bug (could not), saved my game, and quit. I was about an hour in and just starting to get into my character again when the bug happened. This type of scenario is typical of my experience so far. I hope it gets better.

It doesn't.

i38warhawk wrote:

What the hell type of system was Obsidian testing on? Intel integrated systems?

I knew I should have picked this up on PC.

Scratched wrote:

One thing I find interesting is that with the ability of consoles to be patched has allowed some companies to reduce their quality rather than improve it. Shipping a game in the state that New Vegas did would be unthinkable on an 'old' console because it was almost impossible to patch it later.

I remember this being an early concern with this generation of consoles since this issue has plagued PCs (Falcon 4.0 anyone)? I have to say my experience has been mostly bug free. My main issue is with the companion AI (passive does not exist) and some quests notifications that have randomly popped up. I also miss all the Red Chinese references, but that's not a bug.

On a lighter not, Boone with a chainsaw is a psychopathic killing machine.

DSGamer wrote:

Was it pretty easy for you guys to avoid spoilers for FO3? I'm putting aside New Vegas for now. Not necessarily bailing on it, just setting it aside. I hate when games are on that tract where I feel like I have to keep on top of them or they'll get spoiled. Is that this game or am I okay, for the most part?

I think ya just got to be wary of these threads. So far most people have been good with spoiler tags, but some stuff has come out.

Malor wrote:

...They've jacked the difficulty into the absolute stratosphere on some creatures ("hardened bots" and Deathclaws are two that I've spotted), and never really give you the tools you need to fight them. Even with a character that blew through the endgame while taking only minor damage, just one Deathclaw is enough to take him out almost instantly. Just one. Even in full Power Armor...

One thing I liked about Fallout 3 was that I started out feeling very powerless, but you can face tough enemies, if you can figure out the right strategy. Take Deathclaws, for example. The Dart Gun+Dogmeat+a VATS/CRIT focused character, made them almost trivial. The cool thing was that I didn't need to be a high level to take them down. The Dart gun took away their speed, Dogmeat distracted and damaged them, then I just hung back and fired my rifles in VATS to take them down. It was awesome.

Another strategy I employed was to sneak close and leave a path of mines as I retreat. I shoot them, they come after me and hit the mines as the pursue. They usually get crippled (slow down) and get pretty damaged and it was not problem to finish them off with guns or a grenade.

The thread so far...

Boy, I would love to play this game.
Why aren't there reviews of this game out?
Lard, shut your hater-mouth, we're trying to enjoy ourselves.
Oh boy this game is jolly gumdrops.
ZOMG BROKEN I CAN'T PLAY POS I ARE HATING!