Mass Effect 2 Final Mission Spoilers

spider_j wrote:

It would seem that there are 4 major threats building beyond the Reapers; geth, quarians, krogan, and humanity, if TIM's plans come to fruition. Of course, depending on your choice in ME1, there are the Rachni as well! They seemed to be in a more cordial state of mind this time, though.

It'd be very interesting that whether some of these are friend or foe is decided by your actions/decisions. Right now I have it set up that Geth, Quarians, Krogan, and Rachni will be my allies (spread the virus, Tali was not exiled, Wrex survived, and saved the Queen) while humans could conceivable be my enemies (Cerberus turning against you for blowing up the station and Alliance turning their back on you for initially joining Cerberus). Maybe it won't play out that way. Certianly seems like that's what Bioware has in mind.

MoonDragon wrote:

Which brings up an interesting question. If Shepard dies, but does not blow up the station, then they could bring her back again.

Something I'm curious about from the people that activated Grunt. Especially from the people that apparently spent so much time and effort on absorbing every story detail. Assuming that you don't think it's a good idea that Krogans take over the known universe, how did you justify activating Grunt--from an RP story perspective?

Grunt has the genophage. EDI confirms it when you ask for a scan of the pod before releasing him.

Every Mass Effect 2 sex scene. I admit, the Garrus one was funny and the Jack one was kind of touching, but the Thane one was definitely the most emotional of the bunch, even moreso than Tali's. The Miranda one was just sex; whatever emotional component there was happened way before in her office and whether or not you bought into it is left to interpretation. And is it just me, or does the whole scarring thing seem a bit too over the top, like they were trying to make renegade Shepard look like a Sith Lord?

heavyfeul wrote:

In all seriousness...people, men included, seem to be offended about her overly sexualized appearance. I personally love it. I think it is great. It is obviously an exaggeration, but sexy and fun. The fact that people get so "offended" by it, just shows we have a long way to go to remedy the idea that female sexuality is somehow offensive, dangerous, or socially inappropriate. We have come a long way from our Puritan roots, but still have some way to go.

I agree. I don't even find the character strange looking, especially compared to the default male Shepherd which I find has a very odd face to me. They did apparently decide to model the face to look somewhat like Yvonne Strahovski the actress. Not 100% successful, but I think it's fine. Maybe a bit of uncanny valley?

SommerMatt wrote:

That's kind of the rub in this game, I think-- in ME1, someone died, and you could only choose which one. Here, people die (maybe), but since they're all avoidable any gamer with an OCD complex is going to go back and "game" the system to save everyone.

I fixed that for you.

I'm fine with my choices even though everyone didn't make it, thank you very much. Just like I'm fine not having every single possible upgrade that I don't need so that I don't have to keep doing the mining mini-game if I'm not really into it until I start to hate it with a ridiculous amount of passion.

MannishBoy wrote:
heavyfeul wrote:

I got to jump in and defend my much maligned Miranda. Not only is she and ass kicking babe, but a genius as well. I kept her with me all the time and used her as a squad leader as well. In the finale she went against the Illusive Man and showed she was a loyal bad ass first mate. I dig Miranda.

I used her like you, but don't think she factored into the conversation with TIM in my game IIRC. I just told him off myself and told him I wasn't Cerberus. I assume there is a condition that gets her into the conversation, or my memory is just too short.

She was definitely involved in the conversation with the Illusive Man on the decision to blow up the ship. I definitely put the most time into my relationship with her, took her side over Jack, and went Paragon with pretty much every dialog and plot option with her. That may have been why? Anyway...she is no longer part of Cerberus and we ganked the Illusive Man's ship...sucka! Unfortunately I am a lesbian Shepard with a crush on a straight woman.

In all seriousness...people, men included, seem to be offended about her overly sexualized appearance. I personally love it. I think it is great. It is obviously an exaggeration, but sexy and fun. The fact that people get so "offended" by it, just shows we have a long way to go to remedy the idea that female sexuality is somehow offensive, dangerous, or socially inappropriate. We have come a long way from our Puritan roots, but still have some way to go.

EDIT: I would also like to point out that, while the female characters in Mass Effect are definitely modeled in a hyper sexualized fashion, they are all powerful woman and have unique personalities. They are not objectified, but stylized. They are not vapid empty vessels like in the DOA volleyball games, but characters that exist to serve the story, not simply some shallow juvenile fantasy.

heavyfeul wrote:

I got to jump in and defend my much maligned Miranda. Not only is she and ass kicking babe, but a genius as well. I kept her with me all the time and used her as a squad leader as well. In the finale she went against the Illusive Man and showed she was a loyal bad ass first mate. I dig Miranda, even though she politely ignored my advances.

Agreed, I don't really get a lot of the Miranda hate in this thread. She ended up being one of my favorites and I took her on just about every mission, except when she was leading the alternate teams during the final mission.

Y'know guys, if you talk to Mordin enough you eventually find out that the genophage does not just murder Krogans. It controls their population. Once the Krogan population drops low enough it will lose its effect (unless the population explodes again). Mordin owns what he did and doesn't regret it (even if he forces himself to look at the consequences of his actions) but he did NOT want genocide. He even calls the eradication of the Rachni a mistake.

So your Goody Goody Shepard who agrees that the genophage was "right" might want to revive Grunt because she understands that the genophage is not about getting rid of the Krogans.

Besides, Grunt's head plate hasn't fused yet, so he'd be easy to bludgeon to death.

Kosars wrote:
heavyfeul wrote:

I got to jump in and defend my much maligned Miranda. Not only is she and ass kicking babe, but a genius as well. I kept her with me all the time and used her as a squad leader as well. In the finale she went against the Illusive Man and showed she was a loyal bad ass first mate. I dig Miranda, even though she politely ignored my advances.

Agreed, I don't really get a lot of the Miranda hate in this thread. She ended up being one of my favorites and I took her on just about every mission, except when she was leading the alternate teams during the final mission.

I wouldn't classify her as ass-kicking, a babe, or a genius. I keep her around in my Hardcore run because she passively boosts my squad's health. I don't find her very powerful, or attractive, and just because she's very confident doesn't mean that confidence has merit. Lazarus was her project but it's not like she did it all by herself. There just really isn't anything I like about her. Except maybe her boobs. Those can stay. And her voice.

Just make Miranda a pair of talking boobs that know when to shut the hell up and I'll keep her.

MannishBoy wrote:

I don't know what you all are talking about. Wrex is dead in my Mass Effect universe. That Female Doggo shot him

Which now that I think about it is a model on a smaller scale of how you lose all the people in ME2 and maybe how it will be handled in ME3. After all, I could have gone back and replayed to get him alive. After all, I was using him in nearly every ME1 mission I could. But I didn't.

I guess I need to read a wiki somewhere to see all the differences that got imported over from ME1... how did this play out if Wrex was dead? Just a slightly different character model and a different name? I assume Ashley and Kaiden were just interchangeable more or less...

Rat Boy wrote:

Every Mass Effect 2 sex scene. I admit, the Garrus one was funny and the Jack one was kind of touching, but the Thane one was definitely the most emotional of the bunch, even moreso than Tali's. The Miranda one was just sex; whatever emotional component there was happened way before in her office and whether or not you bought into it is left to interpretation.

I said this before in other thread, but I am disappointed in the "love" options this game offers, esp. for a female Shepard that likes the ladies. Is taking Kelly to "dinner" the end point of the romance with her? I never got any further than that, and she disappears before the final battle anyway. I ended up going with Garrus, and that scene was OK, but definitely didn't seem to resonate in the end. I had Thane on the line for a while, but I told him I had someone else and he stopped his "pursuit."

This may be controversial, but I think they should set it up that ANYONE can romance ANYONE in this game. I don't care if "Miranda is straight"-- I'm SHEPARD, dammit, and my magnetism transcends typical gender boundaries More seriously, I figure that this is a game, so why not allow people to do what they want?

And is it just me, or does the whole scarring thing seem a bit too over the top, like they were trying to make renegade Shepard look like a Sith Lord?

Maybe the folks at Bioware had played a bit too much FABLE II?

LobsterMobster wrote:

I wouldn't classify her as ass-kicking, a babe, or a genius. I keep her around in my Hardcore run because she passively boosts my squad's health. I don't find her very powerful, or attractive, and just because she's very confident doesn't mean that confidence has merit. Lazarus was her project but it's not like she did it all by herself. There just really isn't anything I like about her. Except maybe her boobs. Those can stay. And her voice.

Just make Miranda a pair of talking boobs that know when to shut the hell up and I'll keep her. ;)

Them is fighting words! I would ask you to step outside, but Miranda can take care of herself.

SommerMatt wrote:

This may be controversial, but I think they should set it up that ANYONE can romance ANYONE in this game. I don't care if "Miranda is straight"-- I'm SHEPARD, dammit, and my magnetism transcends typical gender boundaries More seriously, I figure that this is a game, so why not allow people to do what they want?

Give it time. I'm sure someone will mod it in.

heavyfeul wrote:
LobsterMobster wrote:

I wouldn't classify her as ass-kicking, a babe, or a genius. I keep her around in my Hardcore run because she passively boosts my squad's health. I don't find her very powerful, or attractive, and just because she's very confident doesn't mean that confidence has merit. Lazarus was her project but it's not like she did it all by herself. There just really isn't anything I like about her. Except maybe her boobs. Those can stay. And her voice.

Just make Miranda a pair of talking boobs that know when to shut the hell up and I'll keep her. ;)

Them is fighting words! I would ask you to step outside, but Miranda can take care of herself.

Yeah, or at least she thinks she can.

SommerMatt wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:

I don't know what you all are talking about. Wrex is dead in my Mass Effect universe. That Female Doggo shot him

Which now that I think about it is a model on a smaller scale of how you lose all the people in ME2 and maybe how it will be handled in ME3. After all, I could have gone back and replayed to get him alive. After all, I was using him in nearly every ME1 mission I could. But I didn't.

I guess I need to read a wiki somewhere to see all the differences that got imported over from ME1... how did this play out if Wrex was dead? Just a slightly different character model and a different name? I assume Ashley and Kaiden were just interchangeable more or less...

His broodbrother takes over the clan and is glad you killed Wrex. Think his name was Wreav. I assume the story is virtually the same with him inserted.

Rat Boy wrote:
SommerMatt wrote:

This may be controversial, but I think they should set it up that ANYONE can romance ANYONE in this game. I don't care if "Miranda is straight"-- I'm SHEPARD, dammit, and my magnetism transcends typical gender boundaries More seriously, I figure that this is a game, so why not allow people to do what they want?

Give it time. I'm sure someone will mod it in.

I'm pretty certain somebody will also put Miranda in the stripper outfit that Kelly wears and do that whole dance thing, too.

Although obviously she's proportioned a bit differently than Kelly and the Asari.

heavyfeul wrote:

In all seriousness...people, men included, seem to be offended about her overly sexualized appearance.

I don't recall anybody saying that they are offended. Those who have negative comments just find the "stylized" appearance off-putting and even ugly. Most of us wish she was "sexy and fun" in a normal sense.

Rat Boy wrote:

...but the Thane one was definitely the most emotional of the bunch...

I'm glad that my fem-Sheppard went with Thane. Liara is dead to me. She's no longer that curious, defenseless girl I fell in love with 2 years ago. She's a spiteful, mean, crazy person bent on some foolish revenge.

And Thane called me a Valkyrie (or whatever the analog is in his culture). That was... kickass.

LobsterMobster wrote:

Y'know guys, if you talk to Mordin enough you eventually find out that the genophage does not just murder Krogans. It controls their population. Once the Krogan population drops low enough it will lose its effect (unless the population explodes again). Mordin owns what he did and doesn't regret it (even if he forces himself to look at the consequences of his actions) but he did NOT want genocide. He even calls the eradication of the Rachni a mistake.

So your Goody Goody Shepard who agrees that the genophage was "right" might want to revive Grunt because she understands that the genophage is not about getting rid of the Krogans.

Hmm... I actually heard something totally different (maybe I'm also misreading your post, as you may have mistyped one key word). I heard Mordin say that he can live with his decision because genophage does not kill Krogans. Not a single Krogan died from the genophage. Only from a socio-political fallout caused by the genophage. So technically, Mordin never killed anybody with genophage.

Genophage prevents conception of new children to such a degree that the Krogan reproduction matches the rest of the races. It forces the Krogan to evolve socially and culturally to a level that the rest of the space faring races are. The whole follow-up genophage project was to tweak the effect, as the evolution seemed to have changed the conditions for the genophage. See, the problem is that, if the Krogan are not controlled by genophage, they would become aggressive and out of control. They would threaten the survival of the other races. Therefore the only way to stop them, by the other races, would be total genocide. The genophage is, in fact, the only reason there are any Krogan left in the universe.

From what I understood, Grunt is a genetically engineered Krogan that is immune to the effects of the genophage. He is also a superior specimen of a Krogan, thereby ensuring that he would get into power and breed. All of his children would be immune to the genophage. In light of what Mordin said, letting him loose upon the universe could have severely far reaching consequences. It is not a decision I should be making from asking the computer 3 questions.

What bugs me is that I cannot talk to any of the people who are so much more invested in those consequences than me. Mordin never has anything to say about the genophage-immune super Krogan in my port side storage. I'm pretty sure I went back to Tchachanka(sp?) to see if Wrex would have something smart to say about the whole issue. Nope. Not a peep.

This game really leaves me with a hot/cold feeling when it comes to the story telling. On one hand they develop super deep philosophical and moral issues. On the other hand I'm supposed to resolve them with no input and often a very limited set of possible outcomes. Most of which I, as a person in real life, would not choose.

I swear EDI said he was not immune to the genophage.

SommerMatt wrote:

I said this before in other thread, but I am disappointed in the "love" options this game offers, esp. for a female Shepard that likes the ladies. Is taking Kelly to "dinner" the end point of the romance with her? I never got any further than that, and she disappears before the final battle anyway. I ended up going with Garrus, and that scene was OK, but definitely didn't seem to resonate in the end. I had Thane on the line for a while, but I told him I had someone else and he stopped his "pursuit."

This may be controversial, but I think they should set it up that ANYONE can romance ANYONE in this game. I don't care if "Miranda is straight"-- I'm SHEPARD, dammit, and my magnetism transcends typical gender boundaries More seriously, I figure that this is a game, so why not allow people to do what they want?

I didn't even get to romance anybody! I put all my serious effort into 'I'll Do Whoever' Kelly, who was unfortunately turned into goo, so I spent my last few minutes aboard the Normandy looking longingly at a picture of Liara (who has turned into a real bizatch since I last groped her, I might add).

Since I play my Shepard like a flirty slut, ending up all by myself was a bit of a shocker.

Clemenstation wrote:

I didn't even get to romance anybody! I put all my serious effort into Kelly, who was unfortunately turned into goo, so I spent my last few minutes aboard the Normandy looking longingly at a picture of Liara (who has turned into a real Female Doggo since, I might add).

If you continue your current game past the finale, I think you will be able to do some romancing. Not sure though. I think some might be linked to certain turning points in the game. Might also be affected by who is left alive.

Vector wrote:

I swear EDI said he was not immune to the genophage.

I thought that the genophage targeted females. One of the Krogans mentions sharing fertile females among the tribes or something of that nature.

Mordin says the Genophage does not kill Krogan, but that's not entirely true. Wrex describes in the first game, and this one (or his counterpart if you killed him) literally, piles of stillborn Krogan children.

Grunt definitely is affected by the Genophage. His creator (forgot his name) says as much and EDI confirms it on the ship.

The Krogan who created Grunt wasn't interested in curing the Genophage; he was creating the ultimate Krogan.

LobsterMobster wrote:
Vector wrote:

I swear EDI said he was not immune to the genophage.

I thought that the genophage targeted females. One of the Krogans mentions sharing fertile females among the tribes or something of that nature.

I think the genophage affects all Krogan. At least that what it seems like if you piece all of the hints together. Krogan woman are seem fairly rare.

tanstaafl wrote:

Grunt definitely is affected by the Genophage. His creator (forgot his name) says as much and EDI confirms it on the ship.

The Krogan who created Grunt wasn't interested in curing the Genophage; he was creating the ultimate Krogan.

Glad I'm not completely crazy.

So, any theories on how the trilogy will end?

The Reaper problem needs to be resolved, and if it took so much firepower to take down Sovereign, I'm thinking there just aren't enough ships for a direct space battle with the Reapers, even though that would be TOTALLY AWESOME, especially with Geth and Rachni ships joining the good guys.

Seems to me that awake or not, the Reaper fleet still needs the Citadel relay to get to inhabited space within the next 50,000 years. No one knows how, exactly, the relays work.

I'd put money on Shepard blowing up the Citadel. That would fit nicely with the whole technological evolution theme (that the Reapers use the mass relays to direct the path of advancement, discouraging sentient races from developing alternatives). The Citadel has always been the throne of power, so destroying it would be an appropriate middle finger and symbolic of breaking the cycle. It could also have an upbeat message of technological liberation. Perhaps with a cheesy line like, "where we go from here is up to us."

Vector wrote:
LobsterMobster wrote:
Vector wrote:

I swear EDI said he was not immune to the genophage.

I thought that the genophage targeted females. One of the Krogans mentions sharing fertile females among the tribes or something of that nature.

I think the genophage affects all Krogan. At least that what it seems like if you piece all of the hints together. Krogan woman are seem fairly rare.

What I mean is I think it acts upon the females, whether men carry it or not. Wrex's comment about stillbirths made me think doesn't render anyone infertile, it just kills the children before they're born. Guess there are plenty of reasons that could happen.

Yeah, O'Kire(sp?) said something about spitting in the face of the genophage; the implication was that the reproduction rate would still be low, but each Krogan would be so much tougher that it wouldn't matter.

He specifically said something about Grunt being worth more than the ten phantom brothers that would have stood beside him.

Okeer.

Ah, I didn't have subtitles on, so I never actually saw his name.

I'll leave the original post as-is.

tanstaafl wrote:

The Krogan who created Grunt wasn't interested in curing the Genophage; he was creating the ultimate Krogan.

Yes, Okeer even came right out and stated that he had no interest in curing the genophage. He said something about paying the genophage the ultimate insult by ignoring it, and that instead of relying on numbers as they did in the past, they should focus on producing superior soldiers like Grunt.

LobsterMobster wrote:

What I mean is I think it acts upon the females, whether men carry it or not. Wrex's comment about stillbirths made me think doesn't render anyone infertile, it just kills the children before they're born. Guess there are plenty of reasons that could happen.

Mordin said that the genophage halts neural development in Krogan fetuses. However, there is some talk on Tuchanka about fertile females (the Krogan telling his friend that he might have a son, the dead infertile female in Maelon's lab), so it looks like the genophage does only affect some females.

LobsterMobster wrote:

So, any theories on how the trilogy will end?

Joker will fly the shuttle into a Reaper/Old Machine so that Legion and Jeff Goldbloom can give it a virus it using a Mac.

LobsterMobster wrote:

So, any theories on how the trilogy will end?

I have a feeling a race war will continue to wage and everyone will have to come together, lead by an Alliance/Cerberus outcast with a multicultural team of bad asses, to defeat the Reapers, only to then find out that Cerberus is the the real threat to the galaxy. Who knows though. I only know the slice of the story from ME2.