Mass Effect 2 Final Mission Spoilers

Grubber788:

I would be disappointed if that were the case. Mass Effect 2 is based on Golden Era sci fi and the way the hero usually wins in those stories is through logical reasoning, often coming from surprising perspectives or alternative points of view. It would be truer to the source material if it turned out that the Geth were our saviors all along - precisely because they decided to follow their own path since they separated from the quarians.

Shepard's success against the Reapers thus far has been rather shaky, being in contest all throughout; and much of it was based on other people corrupting Reaper technology in order to delay their return. That would work - on one Reaper. Against a Reaper Fleet, you would need something more fundamental that just throwing a monkey wrench into their car.

Legion's arc may hold the clue. The Heretics had developed a virus that would eventually change Geth into Heretics. This is new - not something handed down from the Reapers. If that tech could be salvaged and modified, it could be used as a weapon against the Reaper Fleet.

There may be clues to the development of the game's story in the third Mass Effect novel, Retribution, which dropped last week. Even though the first two had plots parallel to the Mass Effect story line, there were game story references here and there. In the novels, TIM shows a bit more of his ruthless side. He also has some very interesting people working for him.

I haven't started the book yet, but based on the teaser on the back, it almost looks like TIM tries to create a human/reaper hybrid from the opposite direction that the reapers took. He is experimenting with melding reaper technology into a human test subject. Logical when you think about it. Humans must have some characteristic the Reapers crave, or they never would have bothered building a Reapinator in the first place. So rather than create a Reaper from human parts, he's putting Reaper parts into a human.

I think we all know how that equation is going to end, however. Reaper + anything = Reaper.

Sonicator wrote:

You know, that reading actually makes me feel a lot better about it.

Glad I could help.

Grubber788 wrote:

I'm still skeptical, if only because of Shepherd's use of Reaper technology against the Reapers and their minions has thus far been quite successful.

I agree with you though about your logic. I don't foresee Mass Effect 3 going into that realm of thought, and as such, I'm anticipating a bit of a hole in logic there. I'm ok with that, because at the end of the day, the hero will find a way that defines logic, so it's probably a moot point anyway :D

LarryC wrote:

Shepard's success against the Reapers thus far has been rather shaky, being in contest all throughout; and much of it was based on other people corrupting Reaper technology in order to delay their return. That would work - on one Reaper. Against a Reaper Fleet, you would need something more fundamental that just throwing a monkey wrench into their car.

I agree with Larry, for the most part. The Reaper IFF nearly got the entire crew killed as well.

In theory, if the Reapers built the mass relays then they can shut them down. If they shut them down, that's it. War over. You can't fight if you can't get your ships to the battle. Even if the entire Council armada with everyone's individual contributions could hypothetically protect one system, the rest of the galaxy would be up for grabs.

I don't think the "heretic" virus will play a major role. For starters, you had the option to destroy the heretics outright. It would be pretty evil if BioWare decided you could only succeed in the third game if you happened to make the "right" choice way back when. Second, geth are purely mechanical. There's some suggestion that Reapers cannot be accurately classified as biological OR mechanical, but something in between. It also seems unlikely that the geth and the Reapers run on the same OS... not that that's ever stopped Hollywood before.

Freakin' Jeff Goldgamegoneblumcoolgame.

BadKen wrote:

Humans must have some characteristic the Reapers crave, or they never would have bothered building a Reapinator in the first place.

I think the official line is that humans have the greatest genetic diversity.

LobsterMobster wrote:
BadKen wrote:

Humans must have some characteristic the Reapers crave, or they never would have bothered building a Reapinator in the first place.

I think the official line is that humans have the greatest genetic diversity.

Yeah, but it's kind of hard to leverage "genetic diversity" in a fight for the galaxy.

BadKen wrote:
LobsterMobster wrote:
BadKen wrote:

Humans must have some characteristic the Reapers crave, or they never would have bothered building a Reapinator in the first place.

I think the official line is that humans have the greatest genetic diversity.

Yeah, but it's kind of hard to leverage "genetic diversity" in a fight for the galaxy.

It's reason enough for the Reapers to target them. I somehow doubt the Reapers care much about a fair fight.

Beat, and everyone lived. I was initially annoyed that it seemed too easy to get the perfect ending--I just had to give my paranoid completionism maximum expression, and make obvious choices. Now skimming this thread, I feel smug that I found the choices so obvious, and that I lucked out a little. Thanks guys!

For the record: This Shep was an Inflitrator.
Legion went into the tube. Like they said, perfect hacker, he doesn't have a conception of death so I didn't really feel like I was "risking" him, and as an Infiltrator, I wasn't using him. Not a tough choice.
Garrus always led combat teams. He was my homie, led a squad, seemed a bit more my real #2, and I was taking Miranda with me. Again, pretty clear cut to me.
Zaeed led the survivors back to the ship. I expected them to face more opposition than they apparently do. I understand this choice could have cost me Mordin, so, lucky, I guess.
Samara maintained the barrier. If the task is Biotics, might as well use the best, most stable one, eh?
Miranda and Jack came with me at the end, Miranda for the squad bonuses, Jack for shotgun and to balance the tech-heaviness of Infiltrator/Miranda.

I tell myself I'm going to screw things up on subsequent playthroughs, but I might cave.

SpacePPoliceman wrote:

Zaeed led the survivors back to the ship. I expected them to face more opposition than they apparently do. I understand this choice could have cost me Mordin, so, lucky, I guess.

I'd say so -- as I recall, my ending choices were exactly the same as yours, and I lost Mordin. I'm pretty sure Legion went into the tube for me, but part of that was due to his being newer, so I wasn't attached to him personally. Garrus led the second squad for me, 'cause he's the em-effing man; my biotic-shell team was Miranda, Samara, and myself. And I had Zaeed handle the survivors for the reasons that you said.

Unless I have something else misremembered that I'm not considering, maybe there's a more random element in there? Like character class?

Can't remember what my Shep was -- is Infiltrator the pistols/sniper combo? I've been playing that class since the beginning of ME1, and found that in ME2 the pistols/assault rifle dichotomy was much less pronounced in late game than it was in the first game.

RSPaulette wrote:

Can't remember what my Shep was -- is Infiltrator the pistols/sniper combo? I've been playing that class since the beginning of ME1, and found that in ME2 the pistols/assault rifle dichotomy was much less pronounced in late game than it was in the first game.

Indeed, Infiltrator is Sniper/Pistol/Submachine gun/Tech. With the Widow and the Locust(?) you get from Kasumi's quest, I felt guns were handled.

Everyone was loyal, and I resolved the squad member conflicts on the spot, without having to do so later. If it's not random, maybe that's it? Don't matter, I'm relieved Mordin lived, he's my favorite, I'd have been upset had he died. Top 5 Most Crushing Potential Deaths for sure.

RSPaulette: Who did you take with you for the final battle? You probably didn't leave behind enough tough defenders who would've been able to protect Mordin. Zaeed is considered a good defender so that's why you don't want to send him away. So are Garrus (his recruitment mission is about him holding out against waves or mercs) and Grunt (his loyalty mission is about holding out against waves of monsters).

Here again is the link to the chart that fully explains everything: http://gameinformer.com/b/features/a...

Latrine wrote:

RSPaulette: Who did you take with you for the final battle? You probably didn't leave behind enough tough defenders who would've been able to protect Mordin. Zaeed is considered a good defender so that's why you don't want to send him away. So are Garrus (his recruitment mission is about him holding out against waves or mercs) and Grunt (his loyalty mission is about holding out against waves of monsters).

Here again is the link to the chart that fully explains everything: http://gameinformer.com/b/features/a...

Ah -- this I don't recall, but I know that might have made the difference. I've known about the chart, but looking under the hood spoils the magic a little bit, you know?

I'm fairly certain I must have had Garrus in the final battle with the Terminator-esque Reaper (that's after the biotic bubble thing, yes? It's been a little while.). And I had Miranda, since she was my lova-lova and usually by my side. So Grunt and the Assassin, at least, were left with Mordin and the rest of the crew.

SpacePPoliceman wrote:

Everyone was loyal, and I resolved the squad member conflicts on the spot, without having to do so later. If it's not random, maybe that's it? Don't matter, I'm relieved Mordin lived, he's my favorite, I'd have been upset had he died. Top 5 Most Crushing Potential Deaths for sure.

I had an across-the-board loyalty, too, so it as disappointing -- I had grown to like him quite a bit on his loyalty mission. Like I said, I'm sure there's a numbers game there, but I felt like I had made all the correct decisions along the way, and Mordin's death was really the only negative consequence I had, so I kind of like that he died, even though I'm still (stubbornly, I know) mystified about my choices.

RSPaulette wrote:

I had an across-the-board loyalty, too, so it as disappointing -- I had grown to like him quite a bit on his loyalty mission. Like I said, I'm sure there's a numbers game there, but I felt like I had made all the correct decisions along the way, and Mordin's death was really the only negative consequence I had, so I kind of like that he died, even though I'm still (stubbornly, I know) mystified about my choices.

And from my perspective, my first reaction was that the ending was awesome as the actiony culmination of a story, but rather lacking in the "Things Could Go to sh*t at Any Moment!" aspect, but seems less so now that I know the difference between Victory and Tragedy came down to my choice to bring someone with a shotgun.

SpacePPoliceman wrote:
RSPaulette wrote:

I had an across-the-board loyalty, too, so it as disappointing -- I had grown to like him quite a bit on his loyalty mission. Like I said, I'm sure there's a numbers game there, but I felt like I had made all the correct decisions along the way, and Mordin's death was really the only negative consequence I had, so I kind of like that he died, even though I'm still (stubbornly, I know) mystified about my choices.

And from my perspective, my first reaction was that the ending was awesome as the actiony culmination of a story, but rather lacking in the "Things Could Go to sh*t at Any Moment!" aspect, but seems less so now that I know the difference between Victory and Tragedy came down to my choice to bring someone with a shotgun.

One reason why spoilers (even after-the-fact ones) suck.

Nightmare wrote:
SpacePPoliceman wrote:

And from my perspective, my first reaction was that the ending was awesome as the actiony culmination of a story, but rather lacking in the "Things Could Go to sh*t at Any Moment!" aspect, but seems less so now that I know the difference between Victory and Tragedy came down to my choice to bring someone with a shotgun.

One reason why spoilers (even after-the-fact ones) suck.

I agree, usually, but this was one that increased my appreciation for the game and my playing of it.

My deliberately sabotaged final mission was a success in terms of being a horribly disaster:

I went into the last mission with one ship upgrade missing and three disloyal characters (My female Shepard will be my main character save. For this save I wanted to have lost a number of people and to have handed over the collector base just to see what the consequences are in ME3.)

The lack of one ship upgrade bit early on when I lost Kasumi. As a DLC character I'd subconsciously considered that she wasn't on the list as possible casualties. A little stunned I reconsidered who I was willing to loose and who not. I decided that I wanted to keep my original squad mates from ME1 but everyone else was expendable.

I sent Tali, who was loyal, through the vents (I usually hate timed missions but that sequence, where you are letting her through the doors before she cooks, is really exciting) and we made it through. I've only ever lost people on the third cut scene so I didn't know who died or why in the earlier parts of the mission. Before I knew it Tali had caught a bullet and was lying dead.

At the end of the seeker swarm sequence I was horrified as Garrus was dragged away by a cloud of seekers. Be careful what you wish for and all that.

The battle with the human Reeper wasn't too bad. The very end was tough. I'd get the Reeper down to a quarter of his health and then the Harbinger would manage to arrive on the same side of the cover as me and kill me before I could vault clear or I'd vault over to the other side and be hit by the Reeper. On the last try I had the Reeper down to the tiniest sliver of health when, having focused too much on trying to take the main guy out, I found my squad mates were dead and the Harbinger was again standing next to me (I'm suprised he didn't give me a little wave.) I wasn't next to a vaultable section of wall and, even if I had been, on the other side of the wall old terminator face was gearing up for a massive blast wave. Knowing I was already dead I opted to go out in a blaze of glory and I hit the Harbinger with a warp followed by wild (one might almost say paniced) fire in his general direction using the sniper rifle (not the best weapon for close combat.) To my eternal amazement, and no doubt his, the Harbinger turned to ash and blew away. I breathed a sign of relief and waited for the Reeper to poke his head out one more time. When he did a couple of shots triggered his gargantuan death throws.

As part of the departure cut scenes I saw that I'd also lost Samara (my favourite new character after Kasumi) and Jack. It's like the game read my mind and then tortured me mercilessly with the results. Still, that save will be an interesting starting point for ME3 and I can guarantee I'm not going to lose any of those people on my other character saves.

Sure you weren't subconsciously sabotaging yourself? I love these post-game stories.

I just finished the game, after going in largely spoiler-free.
My only two non-loyal characters were Legion and Jack.
Legion was chosen to unlock the gates at the start, and got shot through the doors as they were closing. He was new to my party, and I'd done his mission, but hadn't grown attached to him.
Jack just suddenly 'was dead' as the mission closed. I didn't see her die, she hadn't led any groups, or taken any specific missions, or even been in my party. And yet Shep ran past her corpse as he escaped..

I'd never awakened Grunt, so nothing happened with him
My squad for the missions was the squad I'd used all game. A mix of me (Infiltrator), Mordin, Garrus, and Thane. The battles with hordes were very reliant on incinerate and cryo blasts, with me often having to resort to invisibility-ing for a quick escape from certain doom, or to get to those switches to let Legion through. The last boss was pretty dull, a lot of sniper-to-eye, and then it was done.

My problems are there, but I'm fairly satisfied, although I still don't like the way gathering a squad works. It feels like you grow attached to your first three or four characters, and then the ones you gather later just sit on the Normandy. Or mebbe that's just me.

The people whom you leave behind to watch the rear can die depending on who's there. Jack is one of the weaker characters (physically) so she's one of the most likely to die (Mordin is the most likely one to die). It also depends on who's loyal, but they should've made the deaths more explicit I think.

kyrieee wrote:

The people whom you leave behind to watch the rear can die depending on who's there. Jack is one of the weaker characters (physically) so she's one of the most likely to die (Mordin is the most likely one to die). It also depends on who's loyal, but they should've made the deaths more explicit I think.

Ah, good thing I took Mordin with me then! I love that wacky alien.

But yeh, it was a bit confusing.

How I've heard it works is that each party member has a defence rating for that section, and some kind of survivability rating. Soldier types like Grunt, Zaheed and Garrus have big defence ratings and survivability ratings, and characters like Mordin and Jack obviously don't. Loyal characters also count for more. If the defence rating isn't high enough then someone will die, and there's a pecking order for that. If you have the wrong, unloyal people then lots of them will die.