Brink Catch-All

Chaz wrote:

If nothing else, I can amuse myself by running around yelling "PARKOUR!" whenever I vault a wall or something.

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/4q58y.jpg)

Just watch out for refrigerator boxes, mmmmmmmmkay?

Even if we allow that a slow/balanced/rare one-shot kill is somehow not a one-shot kill, that's still 12 years ago.

I wouldn't know about Crysis 2. I've never played it.

LobsterMobster wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:
LobsterMobster wrote:

OK, yeah, you can still get killed but still. Name a few?

Q3. You did have the BFG that was only on a few maps, and the quad (also limited). There were weapons that could put you down from 100 health, but you spawned with 125 and it ticked down to 100.

(wish BFBC2 did that instead of spawn invincibility)

OK, so we've got one 12-year-old game that actually did have one-shot kills, except during spawn-kill prevention.

It was extremely rare to get a one shot kill outside of a quad in Q3. The 25 point spawn bonus ticked down slowly (longer than the average life for a not-so great player due to the speed of that game), not to mention the armor you'd most likely have picked up by the time it expired.

Crysis 2 right now. Does it have any one shot kills? The demo didn't I don't think. You had increased weapon damage to the head, but I personally didn't see the sniper rifles doing one shot kills to undamaged people.

Might be wrong on that, I didn't play enough.

I guess I don't see what the argument is about. I don't think it's something that's going to break the game or something I want changed. I just don't see it as a great equalizer. I think overall game design is more important to making things work than one bullet point. (pun!)

MannishBoy wrote:

I think overall game design is more important to making things work than one bullet point. (pun!)

VERBAL PARKOUR!!!

The way I see this discussion, is that the 'one shot kill' thing is taken out of context. The interview it's pulled from is when the SD guy is talking about removing frustrations from gameplay, and the one shot kill and sniping used as an example.

Scratched wrote:

The way I see this discussion, is that the 'one shot kill' thing is taken out of context. The interview it's pulled from is when the SD guy is talking about removing frustrations from gameplay, and the one shot kill and sniping used as an example.

Agreed.

With the inclusion of Steamworks, players will have the following features:

· Steam Achievements

· VOIP

· Challenge Leaderboards

· Valve Anti Cheat

· Dedicated Servers

· Friends Support (including invites and joining session in progress)

· Steam Cloud (for save data)

In regards to the system requirements, these are as follows for Brink:

Minimum Specs

Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz or equivalent
Memory: 2GB RAM
Graphics: NVIDIA 8800GS / AMD Radeon HD 2900 Pro or equivalent
OS: Windows XP (SP3)/Vista/Windows 7
Hard Drive: 8GB of free space

Recommended Specs

Processor Intel Quad Core i5
Memory: 3GB RAM
Graphics: Nvidia GeForce GTX 460 / AMD Radeon™ HD 5850
OS: Windows XP (SP3)/Vista/Windows 7
Hard Drive: 8GB of free space

MannishBoy wrote:

I guess I don't see what the argument is about. I don't think it's something that's going to break the game or something I want changed. I just don't see it as a great equalizer. I think overall game design is more important to making things work than one bullet point. (pun!)

HA! Bullet point.

At this point I don't see any real reason to argue about it. It is what it is, and I'm really glad it's that way.

The part I'm arguing about now is that ranalin said the "no one shot kill" thing isn't all that unique. I disagree with that, and seeing as right now the only others we have are "kinda Quake 3" and "possibly Crysis 2 but we don't really know," I don't think he's made his case very well.

I for one welcome this move away from realistic one-shot kills. Modern shooters that have adopted this are Halo, Section 8 and, well, pretty much any FPS that is not identified asa modern military shooter. I might lump Crysis 2 in here but life expectancy is only enhanced in that game because there is a cloaking/stalking mentality to that game.

From what I know about Brink, it seems like your vanilla Team Deathmatch isn't really going to be the focus here. It's very objective-based. So if they want to swing the attention away from people lording over their k/d ratios, I say that's a worthy experiment.

Maclintok wrote:

From what I know about Brink, it seems like your vanilla Team Deathmatch isn't really going to be the focus here. It's very objective-based. So if they want to swing the attention away from people lording over their k/d ratios, I say that's a worthy experiment.

I'll predict that a lot of people are going to try and play it as TDM and then lose interest fairly quickly, leaving the usual Enemy Territory fans.

Maclintok wrote:

I for one welcome this move away from realistic one-shot kills. Modern shooters that have adopted this are Halo, Section 8 and, well, pretty much any FPS that is not identified asa modern military shooter.

Are you saying Halo doesn't have one shot kills?

I was actually wondering about Section 8. I think Prejudice still has headshots, but didn't play enough of the beta to swear to it.

Maclintok wrote:

From what I know about Brink, it seems like your vanilla Team Deathmatch isn't really going to be the focus here. It's very objective-based. So if they want to swing the attention away from people lording over their k/d ratios, I say that's a worthy experiment.

BFBC2 rewards lots of stuff besides KD, and you either 1) still have people that play to protect personal K/D stats at all cost, and 2) has people doing some stuff like Rambo Reviving that's not really in the team's best interest just for the points.

As long as there are humans playing these games, some will be "doing it wrong".

I believe the Brink developers specifically state those stats will not be in the game. I hope I'm remembering that right, at least.

Halo definitely does have one-shot kills, with a sniper rifle headshot. I guess that doesn't count if you include "armor lock," but then you might as well include "missing." It's not a one-hit kill if it doesn't hit.

The problem, MannishBoy, is that the most problematic players will guard their K:D no matter what. These are the people who will not run in and touch the cart in TF2 because they don't want to die, even if it means the cart's going to start sliding back. They are the people who will say, "I'm doing a lot for the team; just look at my K:D ratio," and at the same time, "who are you to tell me what to do, you're a noob, look at your K:D ratio."

If Maclintok wants to tell me it's only a problem with realistic, contemporary-setting games, then what about Halo? What about Gears of War? Killzone? Resistance? Every Unreal Tournament? Which ones am I missing?

Staats wrote:

I believe the Brink developers specifically state those stats will not be in the game. I hope I'm remembering that right, at least.

I heard that too. The only question now is whether or not people will care or if defending their K:D is too deeply ingrained.

LobsterMobster wrote:
Staats wrote:

I believe the Brink developers specifically state those stats will not be in the game. I hope I'm remembering that right, at least.

I heard that too. The only question now is whether or not people will care or if defending their K:D is too deeply ingrained.

If it's not K/D, it will be something else. Lots of people just want to personally "win". Not even team win, personally win. Or even worse, work on their Youtube trick shot videos

K/D isn't an evil stat to track in and of itself. The trick is to also track something else that's more important accurately.

IMO, some people are always going to be playing for themselves in team games. No matter what you do. You can minimize the impact, but you'll not eliminate it. Hence the need to play with real friends or GWJ'rs.

So PC gets dedicated servers and console doesn't?

MannishBoy wrote:

If it's not K/D, it will be something else. Lots of people just want to personally "win". Not even team win, personally win. Or even worse, work on their Youtube trick shot videos

K/D isn't an evil stat to track in and of itself. The trick is to also track something else that's more important accurately.

IMO, some people are always going to be playing for themselves in team games. No matter what you do. You can minimize the impact, but you'll not eliminate it. Hence the need to play with real friends or GWJ'rs.

The thing with Splash Damage, at least with ET:Quake Wars and from what I've read continues in Brink, was that they attempt to subvert that with trying to bribe (with xp points) the player to do things individually that help the team, and in Brink it's meant to be through the entirety of the game (xp for watching a tutorial vid, xp for going online rather than singleplayer...). It would be nice to see it recognise you doing something on a whim to help another player, which might actually train people to play a team game for the team. It can only go so far though,

Scratched wrote:

The thing with Splash Damage, at least with ET:Quake Wars and from what I've read continues in Brink, was that they attempt to subvert that with trying to bribe (with xp points) the player to do things individually that help the team, and in Brink it's meant to be through the entirety of the game (xp for watching a tutorial vid, xp for going online rather than singleplayer...). It would be nice to see it recognise you doing something on a whim to help another player, which might actually train people to play a team game for the team. It can only go so far though,

That's nice, but it can be abused, too. See the rambo revivers in BFBC2. Generally reviving people to save the ticket and keep your team presence in the enemy base is a good thing. However, done at the wrong time right in front of someone who's just going down immediately again because the guy that shot them the first time is still standing there doesn't help anyone but the medic, who's farming 50 pt revives over and over from cover.

Unintended consequences.

I truly hope they've got a good game that mitigates a lot of the jerk behavior. I just think no matter how "idiot proof" you make some system, they always build bigger idiots.

Listing Q3A as the "prime example" of one-shot sniper kills is like saying Starcraft 1 was the most unbalanced RTS in history because a Reaver could one-shot a worker.

No map that was used for dueling, TDM and CTF in any league or tourney had a BFG on it and when you(r team) scored the quad AND managed to actually one-shot somebody while it was active, you friggin' earned that kill. Because any opponent or opposing team worth their salt would vanish from sight as long as quad was in your hands.
And that's not taking into account that Q3A was (one of) the most movement-intensive FPS games of all time.

I, too, had camping (!) snipers, but Q3A is not the game you were looking for.

PS: Bring back Rocket Arena 3!

"Genius may have its limitations but stupidity is not thus handicapped." -Elbert Hubbard

Never played BFBC, swore off the series after bfv sucked so bad, although I loved 1942.

So this objective based game play with xp for something besides k/d sounds worth a try to me.

Stele wrote:

Never played BFBC, swore off the series after bfv sucked so bad, although I loved 1942.

So this objective based game play with xp for something besides k/d sounds worth a try to me.

BFBC2 is a great game. You truly can score a lot of points doing team support and objective oriented things and totally ignoring your K/D. But that system can still be abused.

LobsterMobster wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:

I guess I don't see what the argument is about. I don't think it's something that's going to break the game or something I want changed. I just don't see it as a great equalizer. I think overall game design is more important to making things work than one bullet point. (pun!)

HA! Bullet point.

At this point I don't see any real reason to argue about it. It is what it is, and I'm really glad it's that way.

The part I'm arguing about now is that ranalin said the "no one shot kill" thing isn't all that unique. I disagree with that, and seeing as right now the only others we have are "kinda Quake 3" and "possibly Crysis 2 but we don't really know," I don't think he's made his case very well.

Actually i thought i did... i said take away the 1 shot kills from the games that do have them and they're all similar (well some worse than others) on the amount of shots it takes to bring someone down. One of the reasons i dont play Halo. I was saying that this wasnt that unique of a game. If you watched the videos. Even just hte last one showed a sentry taking someone down almost instantly. 1 shot? No but it was practically an instant kill.

Again i was trying to point out the hype that their advertising was trying to get people thinking that the absence of a 1 shot kill was going to end their fps woes.

ranalin wrote:

Its not that unusual there are plenty of other games where you have to unload into a player before they drop. Some people like that others dont. I'm sure that's just one bit too. Like other games there'll be a laundry list of things people will bitch about.

People keep talking like this is a super unique gem and besides the movement its not.

I guess I missed that, what with the freestyle English you've got going here.

You're right that if you take out the one-shot kills, most of these games are pretty similar. The thing is, they all have one-shot kills, and they all have a weapon or class designed to take advantage of that. That changes the game dramatically.

I'm also pretty sure the sentry video was to show people what sentries are rather than to provide a metric for firepower.

I know I'm going to get killed a lot playing Brink. I don't think I'd be the best FPS player in the universe if it weren't for one-hit sniper kills. I do think that Brink will at least make sure I know what the f*** just happened. That means I get to play the game even if there is someone hiding in a corner playing Click the Head.

the one-shot kills debate has killed this thread for me.

Mister Magnus wrote:

the one-shot kills debate has killed this thread for me.

In one shot?

carrotpanic wrote:
Mister Magnus wrote:

the one-shot kills debate has killed this thread for me.

In one shot?

I think it just pushed him over the Brink.

carrotpanic wrote:
Mister Magnus wrote:

the one-shot kills debate has killed this thread for me.

In one shot?

No, it's been death by a thousand posts

Mister Magnus wrote:
carrotpanic wrote:
Mister Magnus wrote:

the one-shot kills debate has killed this thread for me.

In one shot?

No, it's been death by a thousand posts

When the game comes out I'm sure we'll actually be talking about THAT.

carrotpanic wrote:
Mister Magnus wrote:
carrotpanic wrote:
Mister Magnus wrote:

the one-shot kills debate has killed this thread for me.

In one shot?

No, it's been death by a thousand posts

When the game comes out I'm sure we'll actually be talking about THAT.

Yeah, then we'll KNOW about multi-shot killin'.