Dragon Age Catch-All

beeporama wrote:

As long as the DLC isn't "vital" in some way (required to get past brutally difficult sections, adds major plot points added to the main story, spawns more nekkid dryads) it doesn't bother me but YMMV.

They have admitted that item storage is 'vital' according to player feedback and that they dropped the ball on it with the original design. That was one of the main driving forces behind TWK. Yet they still chose to make it a full fledged DLC that costs extra bucks.

MoonDragon wrote:
beeporama wrote:

As long as the DLC isn't "vital" in some way (required to get past brutally difficult sections, adds major plot points added to the main story, spawns more nekkid dryads) it doesn't bother me but YMMV.

They have admitted that item storage is 'vital' according to player feedback and that they dropped the ball on it with the original design. That was one of the main driving forces behind TWK. Yet they still chose to make it a full fledged DLC that costs extra bucks.

If they can add it in via a module they've made couldn't someone knock something similar together in the editor for free upon release?

Probably can't play the main campaign with mods enabled, or if you can, then you probably don't get credit for achievements and whatnot. That's my guess anyway.

jonnypolite wrote:

No preload for this game via Steam or D2D? Really? I was thinking about cancelling my amazon preorder for the digital copy, but now I'm not so sure.

Unless it's an actual Steam game i've stopped ordering from Steam IF i want to play at the 0 hour. Steam rarely releases before 3 in the afternoon and sometimes not until the next day after preloading.

Man, I really want this on PC, but my system barely (and I mean barely) meets minimum requirements. Has anyone heard anything about performance at the low end of the computer spectrum? I'm assuming I'll have to turn graphics way down, but really all I want is good performance and decent looks at the isometric view (Baldur's Gate viewpoint = Happy). Any info out there?

Unless they'd already gone gold with the master disc, there's no reason they couldn't have added that permanent storage. Delay the game and give your customers more value. That upsets me.

Yesterday I changed my Play.com preorder (since the last game i ordered was sent 2 weeks ago and hasnt arrived yet) to a D2D.uk pre-order. They directly state they will let you pre-load it = Ill be pissed if I cant

NSMike wrote:

Unless they'd already gone gold with the master disc, there's no reason they couldn't have added that permanent storage. Delay the game and give your customers more value. That upsets me.

There's no reason why a storage solution couldn't be in day-0 free DLC/patch.

Duoae wrote:
NSMike wrote:

Unless they'd already gone gold with the master disc, there's no reason they couldn't have added that permanent storage. Delay the game and give your customers more value. That upsets me.

There's no reason why a storage solution couldn't be in day-0 free DLC/patch.

I'm loathe to promote creating an exorbitant amount of throw-away electronics just for that. A download code could work easily, though.

NSMike wrote:

Unless they'd already gone gold with the master disc, there's no reason they couldn't have added that permanent storage. Delay the game and give your customers more value. That upsets me.

Sure there is. It has to go through the fascist MS certification process, which almost certainly has to start over if they make significant non-bugfix changes. I don't know when Warden's Keep was written up, but let's say that when DA was "locked down" in the Spring for the console version, that was April. And let's assume that Warden's Keep was written in, say, July. Choosing to put it into the game means they're now releasing in February, and that they probably pay some big chunk of change to MS for re-starting the certification process.

It could be that free DLC would be easier (although there've been stories about MS not liking to do free DLC), but "just adding" something to the base game is not at all guaranteed to be as easy as all that.

Don't you dare tell them to delay Dragon Age. Don't you DARE!!!

Hypatian wrote:
NSMike wrote:

Unless they'd already gone gold with the master disc, there's no reason they couldn't have added that permanent storage. Delay the game and give your customers more value. That upsets me.

Sure there is. It has to go through the fascist MS certification process, which almost certainly has to start over if they make significant non-bugfix changes. I don't know when Warden's Keep was written up, but let's say that when DA was "locked down" in the Spring for the console version, that was April. And let's assume that Warden's Keep was written in, say, July. Choosing to put it into the game means they're now releasing in February, and that they probably pay some big chunk of change to MS for re-starting the certification process.

It could be that free DLC would be easier (although there've been stories about MS not liking to do free DLC), but "just adding" something to the base game is not at all guaranteed to be as easy as all that.

QFT.

They didn't think permanent storage was a part of the game they wanted, testers said it would be a huge help, so they added it in a DLC pack available day 1. It's not necessary to play or beat the game, just a suggestion from their testers they decided to take. We are not so privileged that this is a failing on their part. It's extra stuff they added into the mix later. And all the certification processes are 'fascist' like this. I understand that this looks a bit strange at first blush, but we don't need to act, as a community, like we deserve perfection at every turn and that any slip-up by the developers is actually a money grab. Even if it is EA, makers of Madden, and NCAA Football, and Tiger Woods... actually I'm kind of deconvincing myself here...

gbuchold wrote:

we don't need to act, as a community, like we deserve perfection at every turn .

No, but we have the to expect not to be gouged.

This is exactly the type of thing that turns me off of games this gen completely.

I was planning on asking for this for Xmas - now I won't even consider buying it used.

Also the facebook/social network style stuff they're doing for this game is lame.

http://kotaku.com/5390868/bioware-re...

I wish developers would stop focusing on trends like this and twitter (Looking at you Uncharted 2!) and focus on actual content for the game.

Lard wrote:

No, but we have the (right) to expect not to be gouged.

See, you ignored the next thing I said. It's a slip-up by the developer, not a gouge. I'm not sure I'll need permanent storage of any kind in this game, given that I didn't need it in KOTOR, or NWN, or JE, or ME, all of which are roughly the same game. It's entirely likely that they only put storage in the DLC as an incident thing, fully believing that it was unnecessary except for the hardest-core of collector personalities. If you don't even know how the looting system is going to work, or if permanent storage will ever be useful, why assume it's necessary and a gouge? I haven't read any reviews that said "lack of permanent storage is a major minus", and if it weren't getting added in a DLC I doubt I would have thought twice about it. If you see any reviews that mention permanent storage one way or the other, or if you've played some of the game and can gauge for yourself, I would love to hear about it and would happily admit I'm wrong here; I just want to make sure the community's reaction to this doesn't become mine by default.

edit: But hey, I like Marilyn Manson, and since everyone in this thread and others has established that "New Sh*t" is a quantifiably bad thing that makes this game bad by mere association, it seems clear that my opinion is false. Because evidently it's possible for opinions to have truth value here.

gbuchold wrote:
Lard wrote:

No, but we have the (right) to expect not to be gouged.

See, you ignored the next thing I said. It's a slip-up by the developer, not a gouge.

Well, that's what you think.

I am assuming it's a gouge, just as you are assuming it's not.

I don't think it's conclusive either way - but when it comes to nickel and diming customers, this gen has made me assume the worst every time.

Lard wrote:
gbuchold wrote:
Lard wrote:

No, but we have the (right) to expect not to be gouged.

See, you ignored the next thing I said. It's a slip-up by the developer, not a gouge.

Well, that's what you think.

I am assuming it's a gouge, just as you are assuming it's not.

You're right, writing it that way undermines the argument I make in the rest of the post. Rather than edit the post, I'll revise that line here: "It may be a slip-up by the developer rather than a gouge." The rest of my post, I think, I worded better, and in such a way that it should be clear the crux of my argument is "It is premature to declare this a gouge".

I don't think so, based on the past record of developers in general - not specifically EA or Bioware.

However, I'll leave it at that.

gbuchold wrote:

It's entirely likely that they only put storage in the DLC as an incident thing, fully believing that it was unnecessary except for the hardest-core of collector personalities. If you don't even know how the looting system is going to work, or if permanent storage will ever be useful, why assume it's necessary and a gouge?

There was a quote from one of the developers, or lead testers, or designers, or some such official person, to the effect of: our first major DLC was a place with permanent storage based on feedback we received from people that have actually played the game. In other words, when they designed the game, they didn't think of it. When people actually started playing the game, it became obvious that it would be a very good thing to have. So, the very first thing they designed as an addition to the game has it.

Now the question still stands whether they needed to wrap it up into a largish DLC module that costs a lot of money, or could they have wrapped it into a minor DLC for free (or a minimal possible price in case of consoles).

gbuchold wrote:

We are not so privileged that this is a failing on their part.

Why not? Besides, there are shades of gray between us being privileged and it being failing on their part. It's a product that a manufacturer created. I am a consumer that pays for it. I have certain expectations on the product performance. If the product doesn't deliver, then the manufacturer failed. I fail to see how my being privileged plays into this. It's not like I'm getting the product for free. Nor is Bioware some sort of an omniscient deity that cannot do wrong.

"Eden sucks. I've got this apple right in front of me and I can't eat it. Screw this, and screw you Biowa....I mean God"

Bullion Cube wrote:

"Eden sucks. I've got this apple right in front of me and I can't eat it. Screw this, and screw you Biowa....I mean God"

Haha... assuming Bioware has this great knowledge compared to us mere mortals that the apple will harm us in some way then yeah, we're stupid. On the other hand game devs are just as stupid as the rest of us so i'm not totally convinced

MoonDragon wrote:

There was a quote from one of the developers, or lead testers, or designers, or some such official person, to the effect of: our first major DLC was a place with permanent storage based on feedback we received from people that have actually played the game.

That quote is on the previous page of this thread.

MoonDragon wrote:

In other words, when they designed the game, they didn't think of it. When people actually started playing the game, it became obvious that it would be a very good thing to have. So, the very first thing they designed as an addition to the game has it.

That quote references this feedback as coming from "previews/reviews". Meaning, reviewers. Meaning, the game had already gone through full internal testing, being played 40 hours a week or more by people whose job is to play these games and fix problems. If the testers didn't complain to the point where it ended up in the game, maybe the reviewers see things differently? Maybe it's not actually necessary, similar to how reviewers will bash a game for having no multiplayer, even if the game was designed from the ground up to be a single-player experience? Again, I haven't played it and I can't gauge the necessity. But neither has anyone here, and it seems the response to "the permanent storage is only in the DLC" was at least partially 'HOW DARE THEY!?' which strikes me as premature.

MoonDragon wrote:

Now the question still stands whether they needed to wrap it up into a largish DLC module that costs a lot of money, or could they have wrapped it into a minor DLC for free (or a minimal possible price in case of consoles).

This is a fair point, but MS and Sony hate free DLC, which may have necessitated this solution. The only alternatives, for all we know, might have been "put it in the DLC that comes free with new versions" which might be met with a public backlash perhaps more serious even than this one, or try to get it through in a patch which would be too large for MS/Sony to allow. I'm no expert, but it seems these are at least plausible.

MoonDragon wrote:
gbuchold wrote:

We are not so privileged that this is a failing on their part.

Why not?

We don't have a right to luxuries. We don't have a right to a game with everything we want in it, because what you want differs from what I want, and there's no money to be made in creating a game for an audience of 1. We have a right to Not Buy It, but this is conveniently forgotten when there's complaining to be had. But if you decide you don't want it, that doesn't mean they failed, unless their goal was to get Your sale in particular, which is unlikely. I love roguelikes, and I love Demon's Souls, but if someone wants a game with weak penalties for death, they won't like Demon's Souls. That's not a failing. It's just a different style of game. Is it implausible that permanent storage might have changed the power dynamic of DA in a way the developers didn't at first want? Or that the player's camp moves so frequently that a permanent storage chest would seem out of place?

MoonDragon wrote:

Besides, there are shades of gray between us being privileged and it being failing on their part. It's a product that a manufacturer created. I am a consumer that pays for it. I have certain expectations on the product performance. If the product doesn't deliver, then the manufacturer failed. I fail to see how my being privileged plays into this. It's not like I'm getting the product for free. Nor is Bioware some sort of an omniscient deity that cannot do wrong.

Absolutely correct. You're not getting it for free. As a matter of fact, you haven't got it yet at all. And yet you're sure that permanent storage is a necessity? And that this is a gouge-job? I'm not so sure on either count.

All I'm saying is that there is a reasonable and likely scenario that does not involve either of these. If Bioware didn't think it was necessary, previewers mentioned that it would look good in reviews, and they threw it into a DLC to placate those previewers, that would explain this whole fiasco, and Occam's Razor favors that over Conspiracy To Gouge. I don't know which of these is true, but I sincerely doubt anyone else knows either - yet the complaints voiced in this thread and others all take the ring of firsthand knowledge. I come here neither to praise Bioware nor to bury them. I just wonder how many people ever thought about permanent storage in DA before this story was brought directly to their attention, and how many truly believe it is a tremendous omission. I don't mean to point fingers, but I've read this thread, and there are no mentions of permanent storage before this story came up. It may be that people assumed there would be that feature and took it as a given, but I wouldn't bet on it. With the kind of backlash going around, I would expect some earlier posts saying "There's going to be a chest or something for permanent storage, right? I only play games with that feature."

Despite thoroughly enjoying Bioware releases on consoles for a while now, I chose to buy the digital deluxe version through Impulse. The difference in price, bonuses and the survey coupon were just too good to pass up.

Sorry if this has been posted. But, the PS3 version is now being released on Nov. 3rd with the PC and 360 versions. I'm very happy right now!

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6237823...

TAZ89 wrote:

Sorry if this has been posted. But, the PS3 version is now being released on Nov. 3rd with the PC and 360 versions. I'm very happy right now!

And Amazon has all versions available with Release Date shipping and, I think, a $10 back discount towards another game. For anyone interested.

stauf7 wrote:

Despite thoroughly enjoying Bioware releases on consoles for a while now, I chose to buy the digital deluxe version through Impulse. The difference in price, bonuses and the survey coupon were just too good to pass up.

I'm buying the 360 version. Kind of scared about that, honestly, even though Bioware's console release have been just fine since KOTOR. Still this is one of the few cases where I wish I wasn't a Mac User.

ubrakto wrote:
MoonDragon wrote:

I think farley may have been talking about a consolized version.

Possibly, but the Giant Bomb vid he referenced was for the PC version, so it was hard to tell for sure.

Sorry I meant to reverence the giantbomb video about the console version. Yes the PC version is nothing like kotor. The console version though...when he was panning around his character, and when he was using the bumpers to quickly hop between characters just looked a lot like the console of kotor.

Geez, I didn't mean to start a war in this thread. I'm just disappointed with BioWare, there are obvious solutions other than the one they chose to provide this permanent storage without charging for it out the starting gate.

farley3k wrote:
ubrakto wrote:
MoonDragon wrote:

I think farley may have been talking about a consolized version.

Possibly, but the Giant Bomb vid he referenced was for the PC version, so it was hard to tell for sure.

Sorry I meant to reverence the giantbomb video about the console version. Yes the PC version is nothing like kotor. The console version though...when he was panning around his character, and when he was using the bumpers to quickly hop between characters just looked a lot like the console of kotor.

Ah. I stand corrected.

My first thought on a purchase would be to pick this up on Steam (like I have been doing with virtually everything else this past year), but I'm thinking I want the box/booklet/etc for this one. Is there anything besides a booklet for this on the regular box version or would I have to buy the special edition for that instead?

kuddles wrote:

It's upsetting to me that lethial went the extra mile for people who don't want to read through the thread and continues to update the original post with all relevant information, and people can't even be bothered to read that either.

FWIW, I actually have been checking the OP for updates every time I open this thread. I really appreciate the extra effort Lethial has been making to keep all the info in a readily available and nicely-formatted space!

Farscry wrote:

I really appreciate the extra effort Lethial has been making to keep all the info in a readily available and nicely-formatted space!

Agreed. My hat is off to Lethial. (If there are any Bioware plants here, I was on the fence about DA: Origins, but this thread and its filthy enablers have led me to pre-order the damn thing on Steam. Buy that man a beer.)