Thief series catch-all

The bank mission in T2 is a masterpiece in my opinion. When you compare it to the relatively tiny nu Thief bank job from last year it's easy to see how dumbed down the reboot was.

Running Man wrote:

The bank mission in T2 is a masterpiece in my opinion. When you compare it to the relatively tiny nu Thief bank job from last year it's easy to see how dumbed down the reboot was.

To say nothing of comparing the final missions.

Running Man wrote:

The bank mission in T2 is a masterpiece in my opinion.

When I got up on the roof and found multiple means of ingress, I was a happy boy. The game was going to let me enter the bank at a number of wildly different points instead of funnel me to any given path.

Now up through Trail of Blood.

Blackmail was pretty good.

I think my favorites so far have been Framed (police station), Ambush (moving through the town to get back to Garrett's place) and First City Bank & Trust.

Completed Thief 2 today. Excellent game, overall enjoyed better than Thief Gold. The level quality across the board was better IMO.

The final mission was among my least favorites. It was big and there's a lot of pieces, but it was one of the least interesting settings, and thieving kinda went out the window in favor of just a lot of hoofing it over long distances. And almost all robo-enemies was less interesting too. They're good when used judiciously, but a whole level of them was just tedious.

Life of the Party was, of course, fabulous.

i enjoyed that Casing the Joint required me to not go clubbing everyone on the head.

Precious Cargo was fun but drove me nuts. I ran around to every one of the seven areas, multiple times. None of them had the green light on, ever. And I read the scroll with the route, which is what kicks off Cavador's trip (he wasn't in his quarters either). Eventually, over an hour in, I finally find him and two of his bodyguards just standing still outside of area 1, on ground I had been on plenty of times before. My theory is that the dude got "stuck" in some place that was out of my paths (security cameras and all meant there were some areas I couldn't get eyes on) and that he eventually got unstuck and then made it to that spot. It was cool seeing the Lost City again though, and I sure saw a whole lot of it, multiple times.

Framed, Ambush, First City Bank & Trust, and Life of the Party probably my solid 4 favorites.

Heh I remember Life of the Party. By random luck alone I arrived just as all of the guests were making their way back to their rooms. I was able to walk up behind them and THUMP THUMP THUMP knock ALL of them out in a neat line going up the stairs.

Back in the day the Thief 2 demo was actually a modified (early?) form of Life of the Party. Most of the level was different, including the inside of Angelwatch itself. I played through that many a time.

Are you going to go for Thief 3 now Legion? There is also that fan expansion for Thief 2, which is excellent.

If you do tackle Thief 3 maybe try Thief:TDSGold, which includes the no zoning mod. It removes much of the claustrophobic feel of T3 due to its Xbox compatibity. They've been working steadily on it over the last year, but I haven't checked it out lately.

Edit: I have to agree, the last mission did become a chore. It felt like TLG was throwing everything at you for the last hurrah, and the backtracking was tedious.

Yes, I have Thief 3 downloading right now. I will give the Gold mod a shot.

Haven't gotten around to Thief 3 yet, but wanted to post that the Thief HD texture project has officially gone 1.0 release: Thief Gold HD mod

As mentioned in my posts before, I used the NecroAge texture pack rather than this one, and it was very nice looking. But for my next play-through, I'll have to give these a shot.

The changes for 1.0 are apparently pretty significant, and completely replace anything that is included in the Thief Enhancement Project 2 (EP2) mod, so no longer a need to install EP2. Just install TFix and then the HD mod.

No 1.0 yet for the Thief 2 version, but hopefully soon.

*Legion* wrote:

Haven't gotten around to Thief 3 yet, but wanted to post that the Thief HD texture project has officially gone 1.0 release: Thief Gold HD mod

As mentioned in my posts before, I used the NecroAge texture pack rather than this one, and it was very nice looking. But for my next play-through, I'll have to give these a shot.

The changes for 1.0 are apparently pretty significant, and completely replace anything that is included in the Thief Enhancement Project 2 (EP2) mod, so no longer a need to install EP2. Just install TFix and then the HD mod.

No 1.0 yet for the Thief 2 version, but hopefully soon.

Wow, they're also doing Shadows of the Metal Age? I've never played it. Downloaded it and installed it years ago, but never got around to it.

Thanks for heads up!

That's excellent news, Shadows of the Metal Age is a great, great mod. Good enough that it probably could have been a full retail expansion pack from Looking Glass in another universe.

"It is fascinating to revisit Thief 4[: Dagger of Ways] with Dishonored in mind," our source reflected. "There's a lot of shared DNA there."

The modern day Thief reboot that never was

I've seen that concept art of the Garrett for the modern Thief 4 that Ion Storm never made, but never knew any more about the game. Eurogamer today posted a more detailed look at what that Thief was going to be:

That's a world we very nearly saw, as exclusive research reveals Ion Storm was working on exactly that in 2004 - a never-announced Thief reboot led by Dishonored's Harvey Smith and inspired heavily by Splinter Cell. It was called Thief 4: Dagger of Ways.
From Ion Storm's pitch: "Initially only an exotic weapon, [The Dagger] reveals other powers which have a direct effect on the game world. The player will be able to use the dagger to shift into a wraith realm, bypassing human guards. This wraith world is filled with shadowy monstrosities...whenever Garrett kills someone, the wraith world gets deadlier as the shadows multiply."
The original Thief games may have created tension by pitting a weak character against physically superior foes, but Dagger of Ways would create it by pitting Garrett against exotic and mystical threats he wasn't sure how to handle.

"Garrett is a criminal in the modern world, relying on night vision and semi-automatic weapons, but he must use these tools against increasingly horrifying and supernatural opponents."

This tension of being mismatched to challenges would have run through Dagger of Ways like a seam. Garrett's technology would be ineffective against supernatural threats; his escapades in the wraith world would be treacherous due to his frailty and his grounded outlook would be challenged by esoteric cults and conspiracies.

If you think that sounded promising, none of that was actually realized in any form anyway:

"When we pitched that to Eidos, the feedback was 'no supernatural stuff'...After a few months we were going with a 100% realistic game set only in the real world. Many designs and decisions changed by the time the project was killed."
"We knew that Eidos didn't like us that much as a studio and didn't 'get' our games"

We can only imagine what the other Thief 4 could have been like.

"I honestly remember next to nothing about the story stuff," said our source. "The only specific thing I do I remember is that the first mission was about breaking into Senator Bafford's mansion."

No supernatural stuff in a Thief game? Modern setting? Ugh.

Yeah, that sounds horrible.

No, you just... oh. You agreed with me.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

No supernatural stuff in a Thief game? Modern setting? Ugh.

The wise folks at Eidos wrote:

"realistic shooter with tactical, visceral combat"

Before I plunk down $40 for Dishonored, someone please tell me that it doesn't "share a lot of DNA" with that terrible idea.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

Before I plunk down $40 for Dishonored, someone please tell me that it doesn't "share a lot of DNA" with that terrible idea.

"There are similarities in terms of the action and dark supernatural elements, but the specifics of those similarities are so different. Our plans for Thief 4 were focused on a cool, modern setting with magic and a real sense of horror. Dishonored has magic, but it's pretty pointedly neutral. And once you get to player powers, Thief 4 was about gadgets whereas Dishonored is about personal abilities."

Dagger of Ways' idea of moving quickly through the wraith world to bypass guards and scout around is realized in Dishonored's blink, and the more people you kill in Dishonored, the more the "chaos" of the world increases (more rat plagues, more infected zombie-types).

So it certainly does share some DNA, but Dishonored has been out long enough for it to speak for itself.

Good god, that all sounds terrible from a concept level. Maybe the execution would have been good, but man, oof.

Dishonored was a pretty great thief game. And I'm playing Thief 4 now, which holds very little water compared to the previous games. But taken on its own it's an entertaining stealth game. Better than that alternate Thief sounds.

I wonder if big publishers still deliver feedback as simplistic and hilarious as "no supernatural stuff." I'd have to assume some of them do sometimes.

Anyway, I'm sure it would be possible to make an interesting Thief game with those parameters, but Ion Storm wasn't exactly hitting grand slams around that time. Probably for the best that it didn't happen.

"Initially only an exotic weapon, [The Dagger] reveals other powers which have a direct effect on the game world. The player will be able to use the dagger to shift into a wraith realm, bypassing human guards. This wraith world is filled with shadowy monstrosities...whenever Garrett kills someone, the wraith world gets deadlier as the shadows multiply."

This would be hard to pull off, but if done right it could have been cool. It sort of reminds me of the LotR movies when Frodo wears the ring and is shifted to a shadowy dimension.

Still, a modern take on Thief would have been a disaster.

Running Man wrote:

Still, a modern take on Thief would have been a disaster.

Unlike the in-universe take on Thief we did get?

Living in a world with the Thief 4 we got (and the post-Chaos Theory Splinter Cells we got), and knowing how excellent Dishonored is, I'd have been happy with a modern Thief. The ideas sound like they have potential, especially zipping around a wraith world that responds to your murderizing, and whose dangers you're powerless to combat. And the world is one I'd like to explore:

more menacing and more industrial
a darkly colourful world of shadow, neon and moonlight wherein Garrett will explore rooftops and street corners

I'm not so hot on the Blade comparisons—maybe something like Wicked City, but less awful misogyny. Plus then the world would match with the music. But I also just like late-90s industrial.

Anyway: Senator Bafford. I'd like to see that.

The wraith world sounds exactly like Soul Reaver

Gravey wrote:
Running Man wrote:

Still, a modern take on Thief would have been a disaster.

Unlike the in-universe take on Thief we did get? ;)

Point taken, but I wouldn't say nu Thief is set in the original universe. I've tried to expunge my memory of it, but I don't recall encountering pagans, hammerites, haunts, or even a stray burrick.

There was such a rich history, and Eidos swept it all under the rug.

/gettingriledupagain

I think it's implied in Nu-Thief that Garrett and his world existed a long time before the events of the game, and that the original Garrett was even holed up in the asylum that you visit for a while. Which, at that point, you might as well have no connection at all, since it was all subtle and didn't really affect the narrative.

Arise! I hadn't done a Thief Gold run in a while, so tonight I checked out the latest Thief Gold HD Texture Mod. Boy is it a beauty. First I ran Lord Bafford's mansion mission with regular textures, then with the texture mod installed. The difference is stunning. Lighting effects are beautiful, textures are rich and realistic. Gameplay is still top notch of course. Now if they could only fix the polygonal guards. If you've ever wanted to check out this all time classic, it's never looked better.

Also steal a peek at this vegetation mod demo, looks pretty convincing.

I definitely need to give Thief HD a go. And I still need to play T2X. (And Thief 3 for that matter)

Apparently the HD mod for T2 has not had an updated release yet. In the moddb post for the T2 mod with the vegetation demo videos, it mentions T2 HD 1.0 as coming, so maybe once that drops, that will be my signal for another Thief run.

I've loved the Thief series for a long time and TTLG.com was my go to forum for many years so I love any time it's brought up

I recently played through Thief 3 using the "Full Sneaky Upgrade" which is an extensive all-in-one package. The installation is simply click what you want and go. It does a ton of things from custom resolutions, textures and animations to extra missions and the ability to easily play other downloaded missions. It even adds additional high res cut scenes! It doesn't replace any existing cut scenes, it adds new ones during the briefing of every mission. I was really impressed and remembered why I love the Thief community.

Ooh and it includes the Gold mod that removes the mid-level loading.

The removal of mid-level loads is a huge plus. Modders have made upgrading these games so easy nowadays, I like that T3 has a separate options console now. It really says something about that trilogy that folks are still hard at work tweaking the experience 15-20 years later.