NCAA College Football 2009 *Catch All*

maxox wrote:

Jevan Snead was horrible this year (at least the four games I saw [20TD 20 INT overall]). I think he is making a mistake coming out early. Who knows maybe a few years learning as a 3rd string late round pick would be better for him than another year at Ole Miss?

I don't disagree with any of that. He has the look of a lot of college QBs right before they "click" and have that big year that propels them to the next level. I can't help but think he'd be looking at a better draft slot in 2011 than in 2010. I don't get why he's coming out now, because right now, his talent is undervalued. Maybe he thinks putting on a show in workouts will be enough. He'll hurt his stock because he's not draft-and-start ready. But he has a ton of talent for a draft-and-sit guy you can get after round 1. Sort of like how Chad Henne's disappointing senior season put him in that boat. Could be a value grab for someone. I'd rather take a chance on him than a spread system QB who doesn't have an NFL arm.

I don't know a lot about the Ole Miss depth chart, but from what I'm reading, Snead would have been coming back to a depleted unit. That might explain it.

LeapingGnome wrote:

How anyone can cheer for a Nick Saban team is beyond me. I turned off the game when it was 24-6 and they said McCoy wasn't coming back for the 2nd half. I was hoping for a good game but that was dashed when he was injured. Oh well. I agree with Legion's draft analysis, but think he might sneak into the end of the 1st round just because teams like to pick QBs, assuming the injury is not long lasting and he has a good combine/workouts.

While he can come off as a prick, the man knows how to organize a college football program. The quality of players at LSU improved dramatically under his tenure, and I don't mean on the field -- they had top-notch good kids, and I see the exact same thing happening with Alabama. He also doesn't beat around the bush with kids when recruiting them. He won't promise anything to a kid that he's not willing to follow through with. He also does not use a system that hurts a player's chances to progress to the next level if they are good enough.

The man comes off as a huge grump, but if my kid had the talent to play where he was coaching, I certainly would not be disappointed if he chose to go there.

Jayhawker wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:

How anyone can cheer for a Nick Saban team is beyond me. I turned off the game when it was 24-6 and they said McCoy wasn't coming back for the 2nd half. I was hoping for a good game but that was dashed when he was injured. Oh well. I agree with Legion's draft analysis, but think he might sneak into the end of the 1st round just because teams like to pick QBs, assuming the injury is not long lasting and he has a good combine/workouts.

Well, you did miss a good game. It just had kind of flat ending, and Bama ran the score up instead of kneeling on the ball.

Umm, Bama's last score came off of a short field with nothing but run calls, and Texas still holding a time out, I would not call that running up the score. Of course being a fan of Big 12 football you might be more familiar with the nuances of running up the score.

Badferret wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:

How anyone can cheer for a Nick Saban team is beyond me. I turned off the game when it was 24-6 and they said McCoy wasn't coming back for the 2nd half. I was hoping for a good game but that was dashed when he was injured. Oh well. I agree with Legion's draft analysis, but think he might sneak into the end of the 1st round just because teams like to pick QBs, assuming the injury is not long lasting and he has a good combine/workouts.

Well, you did miss a good game. It just had kind of flat ending, and Bama ran the score up instead of kneeling on the ball.

Umm, Bama's last score came off of a short field with nothing but run calls, and Texas still holding a time out, I would not call that running up the score. Of course being a fan of Big 12 football you might be more familiar with the nuances of running up the score. ;)

Even if Texas had called time out, Bama could still have run the clock out. Texas didn't call time out, but Bama ran plays against defense that already quit, and put in the last score.

Badferret wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:

How anyone can cheer for a Nick Saban team is beyond me. I turned off the game when it was 24-6 and they said McCoy wasn't coming back for the 2nd half. I was hoping for a good game but that was dashed when he was injured. Oh well. I agree with Legion's draft analysis, but think he might sneak into the end of the 1st round just because teams like to pick QBs, assuming the injury is not long lasting and he has a good combine/workouts.

Well, you did miss a good game. It just had kind of flat ending, and Bama ran the score up instead of kneeling on the ball.

Umm, Bama's last score came off of a short field with nothing but run calls, and Texas still holding a time out, I would not call that running up the score. Of course being a fan of Big 12 football you might be more familiar with the nuances of running up the score. ;)

This doesn't really bother me that much -- teams running up the score, which is what Saban was clearly doing. I can sort of see why he'd want to make the scoreline bigger -- likely to ease a bit of the embarassment from so very nearly being outcoached and beat by a team that has no running game and a wet-behind-the-ears freshman that was a few WR drops away from embarrassing Alabama completely. I detest the argument that these are just boys and not pros and blah, blah, blah, most especially in the title game. However, it would have been rather sad had one of those run plays resulted in

A) the Baylor debacle a few years ago where instead of running out the clock for a precious rare win, they ran the ball up the middle to score once more only to fumble, have it returned for a TD and lose

or

B) ended up with a serious injury to one of his players. Sure the odds are low, but they're even lower when you're running the victory play.

I would like it if "running up the score" was stricken from the vocabulary of sports.

If the clock doesn't yet say 0:00, play the game.

It's fine if you want to ease up in order to reduce the potential of injury to your guys, but there should exist no other outside pressure to stop playing just because of the lead you have.

*Legion* wrote:

I would like it if "running up the score" was stricken from the vocabulary of sports.

If the clock doesn't yet say 0:00, play the game.

It's fine if you want to ease up in order to reduce the potential of injury to your guys, but there should exist no other outside pressure to stop playing just because of the lead you have.

The desire to risk injury and potential game changing turnovers in order to score points when the game could be won by kneeling is from an outside source.

The goal is to win the game. So dialing it back and running clock is not to save the face of the opponent, it is the smart way to seal a victory.

Is running up the score used too often? Sure. Throwing the ball when you need the clock to run, and not taking a knee when the other team can't get the ball back if you do, are exceptions.

*Legion* wrote:

I would like it if "running up the score" was stricken from the vocabulary of sports.

If the clock doesn't yet say 0:00, play the game.

It's fine if you want to ease up in order to reduce the potential of injury to your guys, but there should exist no other outside pressure to stop playing just because of the lead you have.

I'm not sure about this. Being a HS coach, there are times when you should consider the other team when playing the game after going up large. Sometimes the talent level is way too out of whack to consider 'just playing the game;' however, as it pertains to college and pro sports, running up the score should be stricken from the vocab.

*Legion* wrote:

I would like it if "running up the score" was stricken from the vocabulary of sports.

If the clock doesn't yet say 0:00, play the game.

It's fine if you want to ease up in order to reduce the potential of injury to your guys, but there should exist no other outside pressure to stop playing just because of the lead you have.

Totally disagree, although I believe that you need a bigger lead than Alabama had to call it running up the score. Regardless of how you'd like things to be, the losers find running up the score to be humiliating. Therefore, classy teams let up once the outcome is obviously decided.

*Legion* wrote:

the idea that "classy teams" call it off and ignore the value of those things to their season is plain silly.

Well you may feel that it's silly, but most people that I know (and several here have agreed) believe that running up the score is a dick move. At the very least, any coach who intentionally runs up the score knows that he's engaging in a behavior that many people feel is unsportsmanlike. And he's apparently cool with that.

It would be interesting to see a large poll (espn.com or something) asking whether running up the score is unsportsmanlike, because obviously when we're discussing behavior that is considered "unclassy", it's a subjective thing based at least part on commonly accepted social norms. I would suggest that most college football fans find it unclassy beyond a certain margin of victory, and that teams who do run up the score are therefore intentionally behaving in an unclassy manner.

Absent statistically significant data, here on GWJ it's pretty much one man's opinion versus another's.

BlackSheep wrote:

I'm not sure about this. Being a HS coach, there are times when you should consider the other team when playing the game after going up large. Sometimes the talent level is way too out of whack to consider 'just playing the game;' however, as it pertains to college and pro sports, running up the score should be stricken from the vocab.

I will agree with there being a difference between college and pro ball versus high school and younger. Come college, players are now being compensated in some way (free college, etc) for playing the game, and fans are paying a non-negligible amount of money to watch the game. Until then, it's kids playing the game simply to play the game.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

Regardless of how you'd like things to be, the losers find running up the score to be humiliating. Therefore, classy teams let up once the outcome is obviously decided.

First of all, total points scored, margin of victory, etc., count in a number of ways. So the idea that "classy teams" call it off and ignore the value of those things to their season is silly. Obviously, in postseason games, that's not a factor, but we're talking about more than just those games.

Secondly, losing teams who are feeling "humiliated" should be using that game time to get reps for their second team players, etc. It's silly how the burden of transitioning the game from competition to just playing out the game is put entirely on the winning team, while the losing team feels completely fine in continuing to "go all out". I can't recall the last time when the losing team was the one that started sitting players and using that time to give other players some experience. Were I to see that, I might have more sympathy for them if the winning team continued to "run up the score". But the idea that they get to continue to play a full 100% game and whine about the other team doing the same is nonsense.

Finally, and by far the most important, as I mentioned above, come college and pro ball, fans are paying serious money to watch the game. Grinding out the clock to just end the game is boring. The fans deserve something fun to watch. Especially for home team fans, blowouts are fun. Football is not some noble endeavor - it is entertainment. And the games in question exist solely because 60k-100k people are willing to pay good money to go to the stadium and watch it. (Unless it's a Jaguars home game, then it's more like 50k). The idea that making games boring is "classy" is a notion I can't reject hard enough.

One of the most memorable games I've ever been to was a Fresno State home game against (I believe) UTEP that had Fresno chasing 100 points (I think they ended up with 94 points). The game was over well before halftime. According to your argument, those of us that paid to go see the game should have been bored to death with 2.5 quarters of drain-the-clock football, instead of one of the most fun games I've ever been to. That's beyond ridiculous to me.

EDIT: I kinda pulled a ninja-edit on you there, and for that I apologize. That's not very sportsmanlike.

*Legion* wrote:

Especially for home team fans, blowouts are fun.

Like that tech game in norman. That was fun.

With all the hoopla concerning Pete Carroll leaving USC for the Seattle Seahawks, what isn't getting bandied about much is why there, why now, and why when he isn't getting full control over the team like he's demanded in the past. According to CBS' NFL Today, one reason could be that the NCAA won't allow USC to self-discipline its football team for the recent spate of violations. With the team looking at possible probation and continuing to lose its dominance in both the Pac-10 and among the BCS schools, Carroll probably felt it was time to get out while the getting was good.

boogle wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

Especially for home team fans, blowouts are fun.

Like that tech game in norman. That was fun.

I guess it depends on who you root for and who they are playing. I'd rather watch a competitive game myself but if we are blowing out a bigger name school or a rival then yes it is fun. There is a huge difference between blowing out FIU and FSU.

maxox wrote:
boogle wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

Especially for home team fans, blowouts are fun.

Like that tech game in norman. That was fun.

I guess it depends on who you root for and who they are playing. I'd rather watch a competitive game myself but if we are blowing out a bigger name school or a rival then yes it is fun. There is a huge difference between blowing out FIU and FSU.

Yeah, totally. The tech win was huge though, and every score by tech was followed by the ball being chucked out of the stadium.

*Legion* wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:

I agree with Legion's draft analysis, but think he might sneak into the end of the 1st round just because teams like to pick QBs, assuming the injury is not long lasting and he has a good combine/workouts.

It's possible, if he can clearly convince everyone that he's the unquestioned #3 QB. Bradford and Clausen are clearly ahead of the rest of the pack, and neither will escape the top 10. It's hardly unheard of for an otherwise questionable 1st round prospect to become a late 1st round pick in the absence of other 1st round QB candidates (hi, J.P. Losman! Hi, Patrick Ramsey!)

Tony Pike seems to be the main competition for McCoy for the #3 spot (Tebow nonsense aside). Pike's a more natural pocket passer, but his arm strength is in even greater question than McCoy's.

Two names to watch for in postseason workouts: Dan LeFevour and Jevan Snead. I tried to watch Dan LeFevour in the GMAC Bowl. He threw for 395 yards in that game, but I don't know when - every offensive snap I watched was a handoff or shovel pass. I'll need to watch a recording of that game again, because I missed him actually throwing the ball.

LeFevour is sort of a poor-man's Tim Tebow -- he's big and burly, and he ran for a ton of yards, but he seems to be a better passer. He might be the kind of guy that someone drafts late and, in the right situation, gets someone who can play in the NFL for a while.

Snead, hard to believe, was on some preseason Heisman watch lists but promptly dropped off because he threw a ton of picks and made a lot of poor decisions. Remember, this is a kid who ended up at Ole Miss because he couldn't beat out Colt McCoy at UT.

As for Clausen, ick. Some poor team will take him early in the first round and doom itself to three more years of futility until it can blow another first-round pick on yet another cannon-armed, mush-brained QB.

With Pete Carroll officially out at USC, the Trojans look to find a replacement. Their first choice, Mike Riley, signed an extension at Oregon State. Second choice Jeff Fischer of the Tennessee Titans turned them down, so the school's already contacted Herm "You Play To Win The Game" Edwards. Jack Del Rio of Jacksonville (is it sad that I've only just noticed how awesome that sounds?) is interested but USC supposedly has "reservations" about him. Maybe it should be Jack of Jacksonville who has reservations about USC.

Rat Boy wrote:

With Pete Carroll officially out at USC, the Trojans look to find a replacement. Their first choice, Mike Riley, signed an extension at Oregon State. Second choice Jeff Fischer of the Tennessee Titans turned them down, so the school's already contacted Herm "You Play To Win The Game" Edwards. Jack Del Rio of Jacksonville (is it sad that I've only just noticed how awesome that sounds?) is interested but USC supposedly has "reservations" about him. Maybe it should be Jack of Jacksonville who has reservations about USC.

Chris Pederson (Boise State) has been mentioned too. I wouldn't mind getting his ass sent out of the WAC (although I still hold out hope that the big WAC and MWC schools will see how much they need each other, and merge to form the seventh BCS conference - especially after Boise and TCU got shafted by getting matched up against each other).

It would be wild to see USC play Pederson's style of grab-bag offense.

USC reportedly has sent a contract to Jack of Jacksonville. Said Jack of said Jacksonville denies said report by using every cliche imaginable.

I'd have to think Jack would take it, even if doing so means he walks away from the $15 million he's still guaranteed if he stays (or is bought out).

He's in a position where he has to get to the playoffs and win next year if he wants to stay, and he's got to do that with a still-rebuilding roster.

Now I'm thinking of coaches for the Jaguars. Of course this couldn't have gone down when Mike Shanahan was still available. Not that Shanny would have necessarily been that keen on taking the small market job, but at least I could have wished and hoped.

Unfortunately, if the rumors about the NCAA being on the verge of putting the screws to USC, Del Rio could find himself coaching a team bound and chained with fines, penalties, and probation. Then again, they've been saying USC's on the verge of getting smacked down for years.

Rat Boy wrote:

Unfortunately, if the rumors about the NCAA being on the verge of putting the screws to USC, Del Rio could find himself coaching a team bound and chained with fines, penalties, and probation. Then again, they've been saying USC's on the verge of getting smacked down for years.

I'm OK with that. It's time for Fresno to rise as California's top college football school!

(Hey, if USC and Cal fall much further...)

*Legion* wrote:

Two names to watch for in postseason workouts: Dan LeFevour and Jevan Snead. I tried to watch Dan LeFevour in the GMAC Bowl. He threw for 395 yards in that game, but I don't know when - every offensive snap I watched was a handoff or shovel pass. I'll need to watch a recording of that game again, because I missed him actually throwing the ball.

Those shovel passes are probably where a lot of it came from.

Jack is staying in Jacksonville. Also, is Mooch in the running? What's with all the NFL names, anyway? USC can't find someone other than Mike Riley that they like in the college ranks?

Rat Boy wrote:

Jack is staying in Jacksonville. Also, is Mooch in the running? What's with all the NFL names, anyway? USC can't find someone other than Mike Riley that they like in the college ranks?

Given their success with the last coach they resurrected from NFL washout, I'm not surprised.

I have to think Mooch would be brilliant in recruiting, and that's what matters above everything else.

I find it interesting that Del Rio waited for the contract offer before turning down USC. I guess he was looking to see if there was enough money in the offer to make him walk away from that $15 mil he's still got coming.

On the topic of coaches, it's too bad Fresno State signed Pat Hill to a new extension. Mike Leach needs a job, and the school's long overdue for another controversial coach reclamation project to raise a stink and remind the Pac-10 why they'll never let Fresno soil their conference. He could be the new Tarkanian. Nobody's called Fresno "Last Chance U" in years.

Sons and daughters of Troy, meet your new head coach: Lane Kiffin. Vols, commence your bitching.

Ha, they can have him. Exactly what has the guy done other than get fired by the worst franchise in the NFL and then run his mouth in college while committing violations? He has a 12-21 record as a head coach!

It would thrill me to see USC return to the 1999-2001 type success with Kiffin. It would certainly garner a good ole guffaw!

I'm very glad he's gone from the SEC. Tennessee deserves much better than him. Then Manning will come back to coach them once his NFL broadcasting career is over.

Rat Boy wrote:

Sons and daughters of Troy, meet your new head coach: Lane Kiffin. Vols, commence your bitching.

They can have him. I would take a Chris Petersen though.

Good riddance, was a blight on the SEC.

So, USC, facing possible severe NCAA sanctions, brings in a guy whose middle name is "Secondary Violations," and whose prize recruit from his only class at Tennessee, just plead guilty to armed robbery, good job.

I guess UCLA won't have the monopoly on billboards in LA anymore.