Borderlands (catch all)

Podunk wrote:

Rock Paper Shotgun has a very complimentary preview up.

As much as I like RPS, the intro stuck out to me:

A little while back, I spent a few hours playing Gearbox Software’s upcoming, toon-styled, free-roaming FPS-RPG. I was horribly, desperately hungover at the time, and was almost sick on Randy Pitchford while he was cheerily explaining the thinking behind Borderlands to me. I am the most professional of all the games journalists.

I don't want to turn this into one of "those" threads, but I think this illustrates why there may be a problem with the seeming correlation between alcohol use and "professional" games journalism.

I ought to demand my money back!

Yeah with all the problems diablo clones have with the inventory systems. It has to be embargo'd for no to be talking about it.

Rapid-fire posting for the win.

RPS wrote:

You won’t find a precisely-targeted headshot failing to hit because of some invisible maths,

I read a preview recently that directly contradicts this.

Procedural weapon generation based on combining a raft of randomly-selected elements – e.g. x base gun template + x barrels + x type of ammunition + x barrel-length – means there are more guns in the game than Gearbox can count.

I want a quad-barrel missile revolver.

LobsterMobster wrote:

Rapid-fire posting for the win.

RPS wrote:

You won’t find a precisely-targeted headshot failing to hit because of some invisible maths,

I read a preview recently that directly contradicts this.

Which one? All the ones i read say it's "aim and hit".

LobsterMobster wrote:
Duoae wrote:

Of course, from the sounds of the kotaku piece, Gearbox didn't show off the inventory system... :/

What kind of a Diablo clone can you play for a half hour without even looking at the inventory system? A game about loot where you can't equip the loot?

Well, one only has to look to Mass Effect to see a system that wasn't liked by gamers but was fairly serviceable. As far as i can tell from the previews (which have all been describing the same play through experience) they were given a character (the soldier) and then given a gun and then run through a short, fairly linear training section.... no need to change guns etc... or if there was (and as you point out) it's suspiciously absent from all the previews.

KingGorilla wrote:

My hope for Borderlands is that is is much more STALKER and Deus Ex than Hellgate or Fallout 3. I have a feeling that it will fail or succeed more on the world than the character sheets or weapons. And for all its problems, The Zone is one of my favorite game worlds ever.

If someone produced a good multiplayer version of STALKER I'd probably have to change my pants. If Borderlands is even close, I'm sold.

Based on the RPS preview, it sounds like Borderlands is moving in the opposite direction from cerebral shooters like STALKER and Deus Ex.

The RPG stuff comes as a result of playing the FPS stuff well – you take out the various homicidal men, mutants and mutant-men efficiently, you earn yer XP and your loot drops. It sounds phenomenally simple, and it is. It’s just that no-one’s done it right before. Well, there’s Deus Ex and System Shock 2, but this is scarcely attempting to be those. No moral deliberation, philosophical pondering or literary references here. This is about the joy of meatheadery.

It’s very fast and very silly – more TimeSplitters than Half-Life. You battle Mutant Midget Psychos and are guided around by blind drunkards and crying robots. You wield triple rocket launchers and quad-barrelled shotguns. You respawn instantly into a New-U clone body upon death. You score critical hits on rad-addled dog-things by shooting them in the open mouth. It’s openly ridiculous, and the hyper-stylised look only boosts the glee of that. Pitchford describes it as “the polar opposite of Brothers in Arms”, and he’s not wrong. This is a game geared utterly towards instant, out of the box fun.

Yeah, the gameplay footage doesn't make this seem like a game I'm super excited to play.

Duoae wrote:
LobsterMobster wrote:

Rapid-fire posting for the win.

RPS wrote:

You won’t find a precisely-targeted headshot failing to hit because of some invisible maths,

I read a preview recently that directly contradicts this.

Which one? All the ones i read say it's "aim and hit".

Giant Bomb[/url]]While the guns generally feel like you're playing a regular first-person shooter, the game still has plenty of RPG hooks in it, too. So where and how you aim your shots won't always correspond to hits in those locations. But moments of aiming right at an enemy's head only to pull the trigger and see a miss seemed few and far between.

So it's rare, but it apparently happens.

I just watched a few of the videos at 1Up, and the gameplay just looked like a car wreck: "dive into the middle and blast away until they're down." I think I'll be passing on this one; if it were coming out, say, now, it might be a different story.

I wonder how different the gameplay will be in demo to show stuff off vs real game.

Steam availability will be my deal breaker though. This is an impulse buy for me if I have to go to a store I will pass on it.

I'm earmarking this one for my $20 pile... I'm predicting that just as Borderlands comes out, Sacred 2 will be 20 bucks, and as soon as I'm done with Sacred, Borderlands will be 20.

A comprehensive strategy for saving loot on loot-gathering games.

LobsterMobster wrote:

Giant Bomb[/url]]While the guns generally feel like you're playing a regular first-person shooter, the game still has plenty of RPG hooks in it, too. So where and how you aim your shots won't always correspond to hits in those locations. But moments of aiming right at an enemy's head only to pull the trigger and see a miss seemed few and far between.

So it's rare, but it apparently happens.

Couldn't that just be spread? There are lots of FPS games that have spread on the weapons and it means you can't just hold down the trigger and spam bullets because they tend to increase cone of the spread with weapon recoil. Even Halo has weapon spread.

When i've been watching the videos the cross hairs are pretty large - though i don't know if that's just the way they're designed or if it's a spread "box".

[edit]

In fact a brief look at gameplay videos confirms that weapon spread is in the game and is probably what Giant Bomb thinks is a 'dice roll' (i know they didn't say that but that's what the passage you quoted suggests is going on... call it 'the Morrowind' effect if you will).

This video shows it off very nicely. The Italian gametrailers footage linked to a while back also shows this but they seem to have made it less obvious in the more recent "game".

I have to admit that i'm not a big fan of them making the cross hairs less visible...

You're right, they could be mistaken. I was just pointing out a contradiction I read.

LobsterMobster wrote:

You're right, they could be mistaken. I was just pointing out a contradiction I read.

No harm, no foul.... it's not like i took it to heart or anything...... though if you utter another bad word about Borderlands then i'll have t- oh, hello doctor. No, no... i'm behaving. I'm behaving!! No, not the padded cell, not again, please! I'll be good! I promise! PLEASE!!!

Duoae wrote:
LobsterMobster wrote:

You're right, they could be mistaken. I was just pointing out a contradiction I read.

No harm, no foul.... it's not like i took it to heart or anything...... though if you utter another bad word about Borderlands then i'll have t- oh, hello doctor. No, no... i'm behaving. I'm behaving!! No, not the padded cell, not again, please! I'll be good! I promise! PLEASE!!!

....

*sniffle*

LobsterMobster wrote:
Duoae wrote:
LobsterMobster wrote:

You're right, they could be mistaken. I was just pointing out a contradiction I read.

No harm, no foul.... it's not like i took it to heart or anything...... though if you utter another bad word about Borderlands then i'll have t- oh, hello doctor. No, no... i'm behaving. I'm behaving!! No, not the padded cell, not again, please! I'll be good! I promise! PLEASE!!!

....

*sniffle*

Don't cry for me, LobsterMobster!
The truth is i never knew you,
Through my addictions,
My soleful ranting,
I kept my joypad,
Don't de-friends' list me!

Get a room.

CptGlanton wrote:

Get a room.

Be kind!

These ripe young plums are just laying the groundwork for fruitful co-op hijinx come October.

CptGlanton wrote:

I too like the co-op and art style and so on. Here's why I'm not interested: There is an excellent moment in an old GFW Radio where Shawn and Jeff are just brutal on Bordelands (it might be during/after E3 2007). It all came down to the devs touting the number of weapons in the game--that slapping a yellow sticker on a shotgun makes it a new shotgun. The piece was very funny, but it stuck with me that the game is based around this very superficial mechanic. I haven't seen anything to indicate that the game has grown past the "yellow sticker" mentality. I wish that it had, because the rest of it does indeed look very cool.

Then watch the video interview on giantbomb, or check out their latest podcast which goes into it in some detail.

This game is looking like a first-day purchase for me.

Also: 2-player splitscreen.

LobsterMobster wrote:

It's an even sillier question in the context of "shotgun + sticker = new shotgun." The math on that comes down to, "our game has stickers."

I dunno, is a quad-barrel shotgun with a scope and poison ammo just a "sticker"?

coyo7e wrote:
CptGlanton wrote:

I too like the co-op and art style and so on. Here's why I'm not interested: There is an excellent moment in an old GFW Radio where Shawn and Jeff are just brutal on Bordelands (it might be during/after E3 2007). It all came down to the devs touting the number of weapons in the game--that slapping a yellow sticker on a shotgun makes it a new shotgun. The piece was very funny, but it stuck with me that the game is based around this very superficial mechanic. I haven't seen anything to indicate that the game has grown past the "yellow sticker" mentality. I wish that it had, because the rest of it does indeed look very cool.

Then watch the video interview on giantbomb, or check out their latest podcast which goes into it in some detail.

This game is looking like a first-day purchase for me.

Also: 2-player splitscreen.

Okay, I watched it. First, that's an absolutely terrible interview. Every question was a leading compliment, or "how were you able to make this part of the game so awesome?" Second, Randy spoke with the same in attitude as what I had referred to in my post--he's full of enthusiasm over absolutely nothing at all. He talks as if he's got the first game with a backstory based around Secret Aliens, or (and this is my favorite) as if he has the first game to use things from the concept art in the final product. I don't know if these guys are aware, but lots of car companies actually do make production cars that are similar to their concept cars.

Late edit because I just realized what it is that's been bothering me about this game:

coyo7e wrote:
LobsterMobster wrote:

It's an even sillier question in the context of "shotgun + sticker = new shotgun." The math on that comes down to, "our game has stickers."

I dunno, is a quad-barrel shotgun with a scope and poison ammo just a "sticker"?

You can't call every permutation of a weapon an entirely new weapon. It would be like Capcom saying Resident Evil 4 had thousands of weapons, because each level-up of each weapon made it an entirely new weapon, e.g., the Rifle with 6 power and 6.5 power were two different weapons. It just isn't true.

Now that I've realized that this is what they're doing (and in that clip from Giantbomb, Randy is still talking about "hundreds of shotguns" or whatever), I will absolutely be passing on this one.

I miss how in Diablo II, yellow-grade items would also get a unique name. Sometimes an unintentionally hilarious one.

CptGlanton wrote:

Now that I've realized that this is what they're doing (and in that clip from Giantbomb, Randy is still talking about "hundreds of shotguns" or whatever), I will absolutely be passing on this one.

You're not getting it because you *think* the variety of weapons won't be truly huge and distinct enough? Really?

Not to devalue anyone's opinion but I think some of the negativity is way premature. This is one game I just have a gut feeling should really be given a chance.

AcidCat wrote:

Not to devalue anyone's opinion but I think some of the negativity is way premature. This is one game I just have a gut feeling should really be given a chance.

I do agree that the negativity may be premature, but I'm not about to try to persuade anyone to give it a chance. If you want to judge the game 3 months before it's released and decide not to get it, that's fine with me. I won't lose any sleep over it, especially considering that when I get it (if it's on Steam), I'll be playing solo.

he's full of enthusiasm over absolutely nothing at all.

He's full of enthusiasm because he's marketing his game. To each his own opinion, but he certainly does not come across as a pretentious prick like you make him out to be. In the interviews I've read and/or watched, he makes it clear that Borderlands uses gameplay mechanics that can be found in other games, but that they've incorporated them together in a somewhat unique way in his game - a game that he obviously believes in and is excited to talk about.

LobsterMobster wrote:

I miss how in Diablo II, yellow-grade items would also get a unique name. Sometimes an unintentionally hilarious one.

I spent hours running around with various hideously sub-optimal items in that game, just because the names amused me. I hope they bring that back for D3...

Had my eye on it for a bit. You can't go wrong with 87 bazillion guns. May not be a day one, but I am so hoping this kicks ass.

AcidCat wrote:

Not to devalue anyone's opinion but I think some of the negativity is way premature. This is one game I just have a gut feeling should really be given a chance.

My negativity is based partially on Hellgate and partially on being underwhelmed by the gameplay videos.

I don't think I can properly describe in words how much I want this to be an awesome game. That doesn't change that I'm not all that impressed yet.

AcidCat wrote:
CptGlanton wrote:

Now that I've realized that this is what they're doing (and in that clip from Giantbomb, Randy is still talking about "hundreds of shotguns" or whatever), I will absolutely be passing on this one.

You're not getting it because you *think* the variety of weapons won't be truly huge and distinct enough? Really?

Not to devalue anyone's opinion but I think some of the negativity is way premature. This is one game I just have a gut feeling should really be given a chance.

You didn't read, or didn't get, my post. I'm not buying it because of the way they're marketing it, claiming that it has features that it doesn't. I think it's dishonest, and to me that's a good reason to pass on a game.

^^^ Do you boycott everything you see on TV, hear on the radio, are told bya friend who likes something?

anyway, more facts:

Gearbox wrote:

In addition to the basic stats of the weapon, they can confer other extra bonuses like recoil reduction and more powerful weapon zoom (among many others). There are also four "tech effects" that add damage types - explosive, fire, corrosive, and shock. Each of those is better in certain situations - for instance shock is really good at cutting through enemy shields, and fire is good against flesh.

The weapon generation system has a ton of parameters that it uses to generate the guns, and this includes a bunch of different manufacturers. You can see the Dahl logo in the item card you showed - each manufacturer is known for different attributes. Some are higher tech and lightweight, some are high-damage and heavy, some are cheap but fast, etc etc.

There's a rarity system for items that's similar to WoW's; it's color-coded to indicate rarity, so if you find a purple or orange, you know you've hit it big and probably found something really powerful.

Grenades and other items you can find are also generated by the system. Shields can have different base stats (damage capacity and recharge rate), but might also have special effects when they are depleted and other bonuses. Grenade mods change the way your grenades behave - from bouncing betties to transfusion grenades that will heal you for some of the damage they do. These can also have the tech effects applied to them.

Special effects when the shields are depleted? That could be cool, if they take it in interesting directions. An explosion, stun nova, etc. would be cool, since it'll only trigger when you're in trouble.

Do we know if grenades have infinite ammo, or are "permanent" items that can be reloaded? If each individual grenade is randomly generated it might be hard to use their abilities tactically... plus people like me would save them forever, for a day that's rainier than the current one.

I'm still not entirely psyched by the weapon generation system. Diablo had all sorts of unusual mods to make each weapon unique. "Better stats" doesn't make a weapon very interesting. I'd like projectile-specific mods, like homing or cluster missiles, piercing bullets, etc. Even Hellgate's system meant a new weapon often meant a new approach to a situation... even though 75% of the mods were +1 to ____ skill.

According to the Community Manager that I pulled that quote above from, the embargo lifted tuesday so info should start popping up all over. The game is almost literally done, since they still need a couple months to work on certification and stuff.

http://www.destructoid.com/preview-borderlands-141659.phtml

http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=1159

rocket-launching shotgun

OH YEAH!