Borderlands (catch all)

Luggage wrote:

Opinion editorial

I don't know if we were playing a differnet game, or if our expecations are just that much different but personally, I enjoyed the challenge and required strategies that are required to beat the game as a single player. I played it all the way through as a hunter, and I almost felt like bloodwing was an unfair advantage.

I don't enjoy games where it's all about what buffs or weapons you have. I enjoy playing one where the terrain was built such that you could/should use it for cover and to force bottlenecks.

I have played almost zero multi-player and usually get frustrated by how other players run in rather than strategizing to get through the sections. One-shotting a boss at a level where you should have to work through it is not fun for me. I want to feel like I accomplished something.

I don't get it either. I played the SP a ton and I played Soldier more than Siren or Brick. Soldier's fun, especially once you get that awesome Commando mod. Turns any shotgun into a veritable murder weapon. Of course, the Vitriolic Crux and the Pestilent Defiler are just powerful weapons in general.

Perhaps the game isn't telegraphing optimal builds enough? It's very Diablo 2-ish in the sense that you can gimp yourself completely unintentionally, and quite easily at that - simply spreading around points is a lot weaker than concentrating them in a handful of skills. That's crucial for the first 30 levels.

There's a bunch of Weapon Quests that are likely to yield usable weapons for all the classes. The most powerful weapons, I've found, as a Soldier, are the Cobra and heavy(?) type Combat Rifles. Cobra's accuracy allows for multi-headshots at a considerable distance, and heavy type rifles just pack on a lot of damage. I'm probably getting the gun type wrong. Mean the one which sacrifices bullet speed for damage.

Weapon skill levels are another unnecessary grievance, because you will only have a second or even third weapon group to really fall back on if the situation demands it (out of ammo, being charged as a Hunter, needing to snipe as a Siren), if you have been alternating between them all game. They did consolidate pistols and revolvers. Why couldn't the same be done for SMGs and combat rifles, sniper rifles and rocket launchers and shotguns/Eridian weapons?

I've generally not found it necessary to alternate between more than two weapon groups. In fact, I have to use weird weapons (combat rifles on a Hunter) just for maxxing the weapon skill for my own satisfaction. A Hunter shouldn't be in a position where he's liable to get charged, and sniping is one of the Siren's main strategic types, what with the turning invisible and the enhanced bullet speed. I'm not exaggerating there. I think there'a whole thread on the Gearbox forums on how to spec a Siren as a sniper-main. As a Hunter, main weapon types are snipers and pistols/revolvers. The revolvers in general have a fair bit of stopping power up close, particularly the types that sacrifice ammo load for damage.

gizmo:

I've played a Hunter with the Ranger tree maxxed. Bloodwing's a right beast when fully specced. There's a fair number of instances where I just pushed the bird button and he takes out everything by himself.

That said, I've never taken out Krom fair and square. There's a location on the bridge where you can repeatedly headshot-snipe Krom while remaining immune from fire. I've always used that.

gizmo wrote:
Luggage wrote:

Opinion editorial

I don't know if we were playing a differnet game, or if our expecations are just that much different but personally, I enjoyed the challenge and required strategies that are required to beat the game as a single player. I played it all the way through as a hunter, and I almost felt like bloodwing was an unfair advantage.

I don't enjoy games where it's all about what buffs or weapons you have. I enjoy playing one where the terrain was built such that you could/should use it for cover and to force bottlenecks.

I have played almost zero multi-player and usually get frustrated by how other players run in rather than strategizing to get through the sections. One-shotting a boss at a level where you should have to work through it is not fun for me. I want to feel like I accomplished something.

Fair points. My experience with dungeons like Sledge's Safehouse, Headstone Mine and Crystal Cave was that I had to sprint back to the entrance to restock on ammo and then fight through the respawn back to where I had left off several times in order to clear one of the dungeons. I know now that this was due to me not finding any real weapon upgrades. Which resulted in the enemies being bullet-sponges. Encountering a badass Skag alpha or Bruiser meant minutes of kiting and praying that I don't run out of ammo and that there's no respawn. All of this before ever leaving the first zone, the Arid Badlands. Then you have enemies like the named Rakh that circles up high and shoots the explosive breath, which you can’t kill without abusing the nearby Scooter station and slowly draining his HP bar. And that all is during a completionist playthrough, with me doing every mission. I haven’t seen a yellow one since Arid Hills. They are green when I get them and grey when I actually do them. So while I should have been ahead of the enemy levels, I still felt like a hyena among elephants.
The few named weapons I found until level 25 were mostly gimmicky (like the ultra knockback shotgun or the sniper without a scope). I have looked up some of the high end weapons. Nice to know that there is some endgame to this. But why do I have to suffer may way there?

I am not saying Borderlands is a bad game, but my major gripe with it is that it is too item reliant. In my opinion, Diablo 2 and Torchlight got the loot piñata right. The games weren’t frustrating without optimal equipment, yet you could feel and appreciate every sweet item you found. Diablo 3 and Borderlands failed at that.

CheezePavilion wrote:

In solo, I used to save my turret as a bug-out weapon. Health getting low? Drop a turret and run away! Especially against dumb enemies, where they would all cluster up around it.

Plus, I kinda loved that with the right class mod and build, you could just chuck grenades and fire rockets non-stop as the soldier. IT'S LIKE CHRISTMAS!

Run away? Naw dawg, make that turret replenish your health!

And Soldier gets perks for assault rifles AND shotguns.

Luggage wrote:

Fair points. My experience with dungeons like Sledge's Safehouse, Headstone Mine and Crystal Cave was that I had to sprint back to the entrance to restock on ammo and then fight through the respawn back to where I had left off several times in order to clear one of the dungeons. I know now that this was due to me not finding any real weapon upgrades. Which resulted in the enemies being bullet-sponges. Encountering a badass Skag alpha or Bruiser meant minutes of kiting and praying that I don't run out of ammo and that there's no respawn. All of this before ever leaving the first zone, the Arid Badlands. Then you have enemies like the named Rakh that circles up high and shoots the explosive breath, which you can’t kill without abusing the nearby Scooter station and slowly draining his HP bar. And that all is during a completionist playthrough, with me doing every mission. I haven’t seen a yellow one since Arid Hills. They are green when I get them and grey when I actually do them. So while I should have been ahead of the enemy levels, I still felt like a hyena among elephants.
The few named weapons I found until level 25 were mostly gimmicky (like the ultra knockback shotgun or the sniper without a scope). I have looked up some of the high end weapons. Nice to know that there is some endgame to this. But why do I have to suffer may way there?

I am not saying Borderlands is a bad game, but my major gripe with it is that it is too item reliant. In my opinion, Diablo 2 and Torchlight got the loot piñata right. The games weren’t frustrating without optimal equipment, yet you could feel and appreciate every sweet item you found. Diablo 3 and Borderlands failed at that.

Early in the game you do have to be flexible on what weapons you are using. In the high 20's I have been running with 2 SMG's, a sniper rifle, and a revolver. Later in the game you will get class mods and sometimes weapons that give you regenerating ammo and at that point is when you will probably start focusing on a single weapon class. Early on you also want to be looting every single thing you can. There is ammo in them there toilets

Luggage:

The weapon spawning can be bad, I suppose, if the only weapons you remembered on the way to level 30 were the crappiest ones I've ever had occasion to wield. Granted, the Elephant Gun is good for a laugh when you're overleveled and just want to blow away dudes, but it's not exactly a good level-equivalent weapon most of the time.

I'll share that I don't find the game to be stellar when you complete every quest as soon as they come up. Generally, I complete the story quests up to New Haven in every new playthrough, and backfill as appropriate.

There's an early SMG from the Catch-a-Ride quest that should yield be a decent gun for SP use for quite a few levels. The named weapons until level 25+ are generally bad; better to focus on attributes and get a good gun. If you loot and sell aggressively, you should have access to a good class-specific gun from Marcus' store around level 15 or so; and until then you can use the story SMG.

After the first run-through, you can just gift yourself notable guns from your earlier toons. Getting access to a level 16 killer Combat Rifle as Roland is a blast.

Level 13-15 should see you going to the loot shack in the first area. It's not far from where you use the mine gate key to get to Sledge and is incredibly important for getting quality weapons early in the game.

Basically it's a small building with a chest that drops good/great weapons with a weapon vendor that's also good for dropping good guns. My friends and I b-line to the shack whenever we fire up the game.

I don't know if you're gonna stick with it, Luggage, but SMGs with a Siren are fairly overpowered, DPS-wise. Once you put the points in your skill tree that boost SMGs, you can be crazy powerful, especially when your SMG has elemental damage. Just carry 4 SMGs with each of the elemental damages. The soldier is tough because he is best as a support character (shooting your pals to give them health).

There tend to be better drops in the DLC, in case you were wondering. I started not caring about drops in the first playthrough. I just pick whatever happens to be okay and go with it. The only really good drops tend to be from Crawmerax and General Knoxx's Armory. You'll hardly ever see any orange drops until then.

I agree with most of your complaints. The solution to making this a great game, for me as with others, is to play it coop.

Luggage wrote:
gizmo wrote:
Luggage wrote:

Opinion editorial

I don't know if we were playing a differnet game, or if our expecations are just that much different but personally, I enjoyed the challenge and required strategies that are required to beat the game as a single player. I played it all the way through as a hunter, and I almost felt like bloodwing was an unfair advantage.

I don't enjoy games where it's all about what buffs or weapons you have. I enjoy playing one where the terrain was built such that you could/should use it for cover and to force bottlenecks.

I have played almost zero multi-player and usually get frustrated by how other players run in rather than strategizing to get through the sections. One-shotting a boss at a level where you should have to work through it is not fun for me. I want to feel like I accomplished something.

Fair points. My experience with dungeons like Sledge's Safehouse, Headstone Mine and Crystal Cave was that I had to sprint back to the entrance to restock on ammo and then fight through the respawn back to where I had left off several times in order to clear one of the dungeons. I know now that this was due to me not finding any real weapon upgrades. Which resulted in the enemies being bullet-sponges. Encountering a badass Skag alpha or Bruiser meant minutes of kiting and praying that I don't run out of ammo and that there's no respawn. All of this before ever leaving the first zone, the Arid Badlands. Then you have enemies like the named Rakh that circles up high and shoots the explosive breath, which you can’t kill without abusing the nearby Scooter station and slowly draining his HP bar. And that all is during a completionist playthrough, with me doing every mission. I haven’t seen a yellow one since Arid Hills. They are green when I get them and grey when I actually do them. So while I should have been ahead of the enemy levels, I still felt like a hyena among elephants.
The few named weapons I found until level 25 were mostly gimmicky (like the ultra knockback shotgun or the sniper without a scope). I have looked up some of the high end weapons. Nice to know that there is some endgame to this. But why do I have to suffer may way there?

I am not saying Borderlands is a bad game, but my major gripe with it is that it is too item reliant. In my opinion, Diablo 2 and Torchlight got the loot piñata right. The games weren’t frustrating without optimal equipment, yet you could feel and appreciate every sweet item you found. Diablo 3 and Borderlands failed at that.

Yeah, it almost sounds like you were playing a different game. Except for that part about Mothrakk--everyone hates that damn thing.

Oh, and the sniper without a scope is basically made for the Hunter's skill Carrion Call--it allows you to use a scope-less weapon while still reducing the cooldown on Bloodwing. I had a lot of fun with that.

I ended up with ammo regen mods for at least the last quarter of the game + DLCs as a soldier, so i never had to worry about ammo. I usually had a decent gun, but never anything amazing awesome like i felt my friends did the few times I joined up with them. I made it to New Haven in playthrough 2 before moving onto other stuff. That was after 80+ hrs. I also put a good amount of time into the siren.

I still had a lot of fun, and the real drag for me was the terrible out and back quest structure that was only accentuated in the DLCs, especially General Knoxx where you were forced to travel down either of the 2 long corridor-roads to get to the main enemy areas. What made it worse was that missions up to a point would leave a roadblock in place preventing you from driving through. On the road. That was long. And boring.

Speaking of General Knoxx and better drops in DLC. There is an easy spot to game the system and either make money, or pickup more powerful weapons right near the initial spawn for this DLC that requires no enemy interaction.

Spoiler:

When you leave the first building, cross the street diagonally, bearing to the right. The first alley will lead to some catwalks with chests and such that spawn level 30+ items. Just don't activate the shrine as some powerful boss-type midget spawns in if you do.

My friends showed me this. I only took advantage of it a couple times as I hadn't picked up a new gun in a while.

So, coop soon?

10 EST PM on wesnesday? Should be fun (I do prefer this game in coop).

Might want to clear some level 18 quest, at level 26 atm. Just for the sake of clearing a quest log.

I'll try and be on!

Manach wrote:

So, coop soon?

10 EST PM on wesnesday? Should be fun (I do prefer this game in coop).

Might want to clear some level 18 quest, at level 26 atm. Just for the sake of clearing a quest log.

Can't make it on Wed. nights, but I'll try to keep up until next time I can join!

I should be able to be on for sure, see you guys tomorrow night!

I played the sniper to level 20 as a gunslinger. I have also played the soldier to level 15 focusing on the turrent.

The sniper dies a lot less even though I overuse pistols. In the early game, the pistols seem to be more powerful and varied than the combat rifles. Did I just get bad drops?

I have a meeting tonight, but I hope to do some coop this weekend or next week.

Greg wrote:

I played the sniper to level 20 as a gunslinger. I have also played the soldier to level 15 focusing on the turrent.

The sniper dies a lot less even though I overuse pistols. In the early game, the pistols seem to be more powerful and varied than the combat rifles. Did I just get bad drops?

I have a meeting tonight, but I hope to do some coop this weekend or next week.

Like others have said, just use the best weapon you have during the early levels (this also ameliorates the issue of ammo). The class-specific weapon bonuses don't really kick in until later, so don't worry about it especially with the Soldier.

Also, as the game goes by you're going to have plenty of money to respec your skills. Your action skill (e.g. your turret) really doesn't come into its own until later in the game when you've got enough skill points/you've got some good class mods. Early on focus on your character--with the Soldier, I'd say focus on things like Defense/Fitness/Quick Charge. If you get a great shotgun, then you could go for Scattershot. You can even do Defense-Quick Charge-one point in Grenadier just to get free grenades early on when you still have to watch your money.

Sometimes, I just want all the guns...

IMAGE(http://digitalpimponline.com/images/avw/55.jpg)

Thanks for the tips cheeze. I guess I wanted to use the characters preferred guns to build up their proficiency bonus. For the soldier, I am using a combat rifle as a poor man's sniper rifle and a machine gun up close. I think he is already level 6 with combat guns. Should I not worry about optimizing this?

Good point about using respecing

Mothrakk is a problem? Trivial, any class, really.

Spoiler:

Just get a car with a machine gun turret, do NOT get the rocket launcher. Lock the turret on the big bad moth. Drive back and forth at a sedate pace, just enough to stay ahead of the fireballs. Hold the trigger down. Rinse, repeat, and time the kill to happen so the loot falls in an area you can get to. Ditto for the other moth monster. You shouldn't die, and it should only take one car, no need to hide under the cover at the ride station.

Luggage, you were playing Borderlands, right? Not some other game? My first character was a soldier, run&gun assault rifle specialist. I mostly play solo, rarely get the chance to coop. I've run all of the classes through the campaign at least once. I've got at least a dozen characters from level 20 on up to 69. Done all the DLCs (the only time someone got DLCs right). Fought my way through Moxie's arena. And I don't hesitate to recommend the game to others.

The hunter is my least favorite, never did appreciate snipers in any game, evah. Not sure where the idea you need to be 30 to be effective comes from, I'm run alts from the start to talking to Tannis lots of time, which normally happens around the mid 20s, and had fun doing so.

If something doesn't work, no worries, just respec. Really, its a trivial amount of cash to respec at the New-U station. Yes you will need to run two different types of guns, normally your main class weapon and a revolver and/shotgun. Between those and grenades, it should be fine, unless you are in a party with too many of the same class - having 3 sniper toting hunters scrounging for ammo can get old.

CheezePavilion wrote:

I'm pretty sure that as long as you have the weapon out when the enemy dies, you get credit whether it's you or your action skill or even the other player in co-op that strikes the final blow. Even when you kill with a melee.

Yep. You can do 99.9% of the damage to a target with an SMG, switch to a sniper rifle, toss in a grenade for the kill, and the exp goes into the sniper rifle you never fired a shot with. Its whatever you have in hand when you get the exp for the kill. So if you are obsessing about grinding your chosen weapon, that's how.

Greg wrote:

Thanks for the tips cheeze. I guess I wanted to use the characters preferred guns to build up their proficiency bonus. For the soldier, I am using a combat rifle as a poor man's sniper rifle and a machine gun up close. I think he is already level 6 with combat guns. Should I not worry about optimizing this?

Good point about using respecing

I used an SMG and repeaters with my Soldier for most of the beginning of the game and I had no trouble later in the game. You'll get your combat rifle proficiency up fast enough when you need it. Heck, later on you'll just be throwing your turret out there to do the dirty work for you against low-level mobs--you can just pull out your combat rifle and sit behind a rock, and watch your number go up! I'm pretty sure that as long as you have the weapon out when the enemy dies, you get credit whether it's you or your action skill or even the other player in co-op that strikes the final blow. Even when you kill with a melee. Something I REALLY should have looked up, as I spent a lot of time trying to shoot things in the early game when ammo was scarce and melee would have saved me a lot of trouble.

From what I've read, Gearbox never thought people would scrutinize the guns so much (really, they had no idea people would love this game so much in general, from sales to how much people have played it). They thought people would just pick up a gun, use it, pick up another, use that one, etc. Hence the limited number of slots in your backpack and the Bank DLC. Maybe they were just lying to us about that, but it makes sense given how much attention they put into being able to tell what a gun is like when it's just sitting on the ground/that you can pick a gun up and start using it right away without going into your inventory.

Like LarryC said, there are Soldier skills and a class mod that makes him a beast with shotguns. And there's even another class of weapons you haven't seen yet that works really well with the soldier and some of his class mods and skills and...okay, that's enough with the spoilers! : D

Just have fun, remember you can respec, so experiment and if you get a great piece of equipment, build your play style around that as opposed to worrying about a 'perfect' build--one of the reasons I think so many of us love this game so much is that you're anything but locked into your early decisions. Keeps the playthrough fresh--when you play a dozen levels as a shotgun soldier, then a dozen more focused on combat rifles, then a dozen more focused on your turret, it's hard to get bored of the game. edit: like I said, the 'right' build for when you're low level and don't have a lot of points to spend or any good gear can look completely different from later on when you're more durable/have a good shield and you can focus on dealing damage as opposed to surviving. In fact, best tip I can give is to avoid buying a lot of gear early on until you find a sweet shield as a deal of the day in a vending machine--nothing helps more in the early game than a good shield (especially one that autoheals to save you even more money).

Thanks to Tuffalo to help me clear my back log of quests.

5 quests done, nice purple guns found as well.

I hope Tuffalo love the new AUTOMATIC Rocket luncher I gave him!

Fun times were definitely had.

I've looked at some mods and editors but haven't found anything so far. Has anyone ever figured out how to reset the playthrough progress for a character so you can play through the full game again?

That's built in to the game. Just start a new game with the character and select playthrough 2.

Thanks for the input Cheeze!

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

That's built in to the game. Just start a new game with the character and select playthrough 2.

I'm not sure I follow. So, I load up the game. I select "Single Player". I can then select my character, or start a new one. I may be missing something. It certainly wouldn't be the first time.

I may not be describing it quite right since I am posting from my phone. You need to do 2 playthroughs in order to level to 69. Playthrough 2 begins with enemies at about 30. Just google "Borderlands playthrough 2" to figure out the exact procedure.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

I may not be describing it quite right since I am posting from my phone. You need to do 2 playthroughs in order to level to 69. Playthrough 2 begins with enemies at about 30. Just google "Borderlands playthrough 2" to figure out the exact procedure.

Oh, heh. I should have been more clear. I meant, can I start a "third" playthrough.

There are save editors that allow resetting your quest status, but that means you are in your 60s and the enemies start at level 1 or 30 depending on the playthrough.