Demon's Souls - Catch All

cyrax wrote:

When I went back to Demon's Souls last year, 5-2 was the area that gave me the most trouble after playing Dark Souls. Stupid swamp.

Blight Town from Dark Souls is laughable in comparison. I hate 5-2 so, so much.

drdoak wrote:
cyrax wrote:

When I went back to Demon's Souls last year, 5-2 was the area that gave me the most trouble after playing Dark Souls. Stupid swamp.

Blight Town from Dark Souls is laughable in comparison. I hate 5-2 so, so much.

Odd, I don't remember it as being very difficult. I found the intimidation aspect far out weighed the actual facts.

Dakuna wrote:
drdoak wrote:
cyrax wrote:

When I went back to Demon's Souls last year, 5-2 was the area that gave me the most trouble after playing Dark Souls. Stupid swamp.

Blight Town from Dark Souls is laughable in comparison. I hate 5-2 so, so much.

Odd, I don't remember it as being very difficult. I found the intimidation aspect far out weighed the actual facts.

I don't think there's anything in Dark Souls comparable to getting caught in the muck by a giant depraved or two. You're just going to die if you're not prepared.

You can also make Blighttown much more manageable if you know where to grab the Rusted Iron Ring first. I don't think I'd call Blighttown laughable in comparison, but I do think it was easier, though probably more annoying because it was a larger zone.

Finished 1-3 this weekend and took down the black phantoms at the start of 1-4. Now I have to figure how to get up a wide staircase without getting dragon-breathed to death. After having that happen once, I decided against using a wiki, and decided to go check out 3-2 instead. I'm making great progress there.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

Finished 1-3 this weekend and took down the black phantoms at the start of 1-4. Now I have to figure how to get up a wide staircase without getting dragon-breathed to death. After having that happen once, I decided against using a wiki, and decided to go check out 3-2 instead. I'm making great progress there.

I'd consider utilizing Youtube for that section. The timing is fairly unforgiving. If you're stubborn like me and refuse to check a walkthrough video, you'll be so good that you can polish off the mobs leading up to the stairs blindfolded before you manage to figure out the stair run.

I am semi-okay using wikis and such in the Souls games, but I like it better when I can figure things out for myself. It seemed better to just go elsewhere for the time being.

This unfamiliar game is making me homesick for the comforts of Dark Souls, which is hilarious. I love the Gargoyles church, and co-oping there and for Capra Demon. But there was a time when those areas were deadly and daunting as hell.

Polygon says Demon's Souls goes free for North American PS+ subscribers starting tomorrow.

So in my last session with Rivlen, we downed the Maneater boss for him, and the Monk for both of us. I'm pretty tired of people invading and lag-backstabbing people. I mean, seriously, when I see the guy standing in face to face with Rivlen, then he magically gets backstabbed, that really ticks me off. I understand it's no one's fault really, but it's aggravating as heck.

I imported Demon's Souls from the US in November, 2009. I played it non-stop for a time. It was the most refreshing experience in video games I had stumbled upon for a long, long time. I never completed my playthrough, though. It's April, 2013, and I have Dark Souls (the European release) inbound. I would like to chalk up a complete playthrough of Demon's Souls before I undertake the journey of the sequel.

I still have my original save. I rolled with a soldier with preference towards a shield and a spear, with a form of sword as an alternative. I think I had a rather large axe like weapon towards my closing stages. I believe I had just beaten Dragon God, amongst many other foes. Yet, I have an inkling to start fresh with a new character, to truly appreciate a complete uninterrupted playthrough. My memory is more than a little hazy in regard to armour, weapons, spells, enemies and areas. So it will be as close to a fresh start as could be hoped for.

Any advice on character class and weapon choice would be appreciated. I never quite got a handle on the benefits of STR over DEX, or vice versa. I've always wondered about magic, and faith. Are they required skills? Are they equally powerful?

Chaotic Clown wrote:

I imported Demon's Souls from the US in November, 2009. I played it non-stop for a time. It was the most refreshing experience in video games I had stumbled upon for a long, long time. I never completed my playthrough, though. It's April, 2013, and I have Dark Souls (the European release) inbound. I would like to chalk up a complete playthrough of Demon's Souls before I undertake the journey of the sequel.

I still have my original save. I rolled with a soldier with preference towards a shield and a spear, with a form of sword as an alternative. I think I had a rather large axe like weapon towards my closing stages. I believe I had just beaten Dragon God, amongst many other foes. Yet, I have an inkling to start fresh with a new character, to truly appreciate a complete uninterrupted playthrough. My memory is more than a little hazy in regard to armour, weapons, spells, enemies and areas. So it will be as close to a fresh start as could be hoped for.

Any advice on character class and weapon choice would be appreciated. I never quite got a handle on the benefits of STR over DEX, or vice versa. I've always wondered about magic, and faith. Are they required skills? Are they equally powerful?

As is frequently mentioned here, any build can be successful, it's really about what works best for you personally.

If you choose to go with a high dex build, you will want to focus on light armor, and fast, light weapons. Often, you can get weapons that scale well with dexterity and also inflict bleeding and/or poison/plague on your foes, and don't do a great deal of damage per swing, but swing very quickly to make up for this.

If you choose a str build, then you will find yourself most interested in large, heavy weapons with high damage and slow swing speed, and these weapons will often knock your foes down much more easily as well, with few other effects, and you can get away with being less agile, leading to heavier armor options.

Note about str, however, in order to use heavier armors you will need to raise your endurance to raise your equip load maximum in order to stay mobile, str is not enough alone.

Faith and Int are best paired with either str and dex, so often you will see someone choose a fai/str build or a int/dex build. There are fewer fai/dex and str/int builds, but that can work also. You don't have to have high strength for a faith build to work, however, but some versatility is a good idea.

Mostly what you want to avoid is putting too many points in int if you plan to use fai, and vice versa; all builds benefit from end and vit, and most str and dex builds require some points in both.

Just got this via PS+. I sat down to it last night and played through the phalanx.

Thought I had progressed further than I had. This game world seems really big compared to Dark Souls given that what I played was just 1-1 (had to look up what the x-x designations even were) and I thought I made decent progress.

I just read some on world tendency. What? I'm more confused than when I started. It seems weird to me that if you die you get stuck with less than half (to possibly exactly half at most) your max possible hp.

I pretty much played all of Dark Souls as melee, with the occasional bow, or pyromancy. Do I need to worry about casting in this game?

mrtomaytohead wrote:

Just got this via PS+. I sat down to it last night and played through the phalanx.

Thought I had progressed further than I had. This game world seems really big compared to Dark Souls given that what I played was just 1-1 (had to look up what the x-x designations even were) and I thought I made decent progress.

I just read some on world tendency. What? I'm more confused than when I started. It seems weird to me that if you die you get stuck with less than half (to possibly exactly half at most) your max possible hp.

I pretty much played all of Dark Souls as melee, with the occasional bow, or pyromancy. Do I need to worry about casting in this game?

Yeah Demon's Souls is pretty different from Dark Souls, especially with the character and world tendency things. You might consider reading up on that before you play online too much, or play two characters, one online, and one offline if you plan to try for 100% game completion.

The Cling Ring will make you much happier to play as a phantom.

You don't need spells, but you definitely need a bow if you're going to skip all forms of magic. Go for the Lava bow when it's available. Grab the Cling and Thief rings ASAP. I think they're both available pretty early on.

Demon's Souls is not as big as Dark Souls, but it certainly isn't a small game. 1-1 and 1-2 are still the most memorable areas in either of the games for me, probably because that was where I spent so much time dying as I was figuring things out the first time through.

Dakuna wrote:

Yeah Demon's Souls is pretty different from Dark Souls, especially with the character and world tendency things. You might consider reading up on that before you play online too much, or play two characters, one online, and one offline if you plan to try for 100% game completion.

The Cling Ring will make you much happier to play as a phantom.

Got the cling ring and that is helpful. Got the thief too. They're both in 1-1. I read the wikidot page on tendencies just before posting, and that's why I said I'm just more confused. Guess I'll have to re-read it. I was hoping to play online. Is it as easy to restore yourself to human state here as it is in Dark Souls? I haven't figured out how that happens other than beating a boss so far.

mrtomaytohead wrote:

Got the cling ring and that is helpful. Got the thief too. They're both in 1-1. I read the wikidot page on tendencies just before posting, and that's why I said I'm just more confused. Guess I'll have to re-read it. I was hoping to play online. Is it as easy to restore yourself to human state here as it is in Dark Souls? I haven't figured out how that happens other than beating a boss so far.

Yeah, the tendency stuff is the analogue to Dark Souls' covenant system, but it's way more complicated. Your two best options are to read up heavily until it starts to make sense, or completely ignore it until playthrough #2. I would suggest option 2.

I'm not entirely sure why, but I think Demon's Souls lends itself much better to multiple playthroughs than Dark Souls does. The game is much shorter once you know what you're doing, and the hub system allows you to tackle things in any order you please. I enjoyed making new characters more in Dark Souls, while I enjoyed progressing to NG+(+) more in Demon's Souls. Odd.

If you do decide to pursue the tendency stuff right away, you'll have to play offline in order to access the specific tendency events, or the global tendency will pull you back to the Internet average. You won't need to be offline the whole time.

As far as becoming human, I think it was a bit more difficult to turn yourself human than in Dark Souls. It is not as easy to farm the humanity equivalent, but you find quite a few. If you are out and need to become human, get summoned with the far superior Demon's Souls summoning system!

Dyni wrote:
mrtomaytohead wrote:

Got the cling ring and that is helpful. Got the thief too. They're both in 1-1. I read the wikidot page on tendencies just before posting, and that's why I said I'm just more confused. Guess I'll have to re-read it. I was hoping to play online. Is it as easy to restore yourself to human state here as it is in Dark Souls? I haven't figured out how that happens other than beating a boss so far.

Yeah, the tendency stuff is the analogue to Dark Souls' covenant system, but it's way more complicated. Your two best options are to read up heavily until it starts to make sense, or completely ignore it until playthrough #2. I would suggest option 2.

I'm not entirely sure why, but I think Demon's Souls lends itself much better to multiple playthroughs than Dark Souls does. The game is much shorter once you know what you're doing, and the hub system allows you to tackle things in any order you please. I enjoyed making new characters more in Dark Souls, while I enjoyed progressing to NG+(+) more in Demon's Souls. Odd.

If you do decide to pursue the tendency stuff right away, you'll have to play offline in order to access the specific tendency events, or the global tendency will pull you back to the Internet average. You won't need to be offline the whole time.

As far as becoming human, I think it was a bit more difficult to turn yourself human than in Dark Souls. It is not as easy to farm the humanity equivalent, but you find quite a few. If you are out and need to become human, get summoned with the far superior Demon's Souls summoning system!

Oh, so it's easier to get summoned in this game? That's good news as it felt like it barely worked except for a few select places in Dark Souls (PC).

I think I'm going to just ignore tendencies until I have other stuff figured out, and maybe not even then.

mrtomaytohead wrote:
Dakuna wrote:

Yeah Demon's Souls is pretty different from Dark Souls, especially with the character and world tendency things. You might consider reading up on that before you play online too much, or play two characters, one online, and one offline if you plan to try for 100% game completion.

The Cling Ring will make you much happier to play as a phantom.

Got the cling ring and that is helpful. Got the thief too. They're both in 1-1. I read the wikidot page on tendencies just before posting, and that's why I said I'm just more confused. Guess I'll have to re-read it. I was hoping to play online. Is it as easy to restore yourself to human state here as it is in Dark Souls? I haven't figured out how that happens other than beating a boss so far.

Honestly, I stayed (un)dead for most of the game. Half HP hurts, but I was playing a super glass cannon. Even at max HP I couldn't take more than two or three hits. There are ressurection items, but I saved them for special circumstances. (Mostly bosses.)

World Tendency and Character Tendency aren't too awful, they're just not explicitly explained in game anywhere. Basically, you have an invisible bar. It's not really a morality bar, but it may help to think of it like one. Some things push you towards the white side (generally good things, like killing demons) and some things push you towards the black side (generally bad things, like dying). Also, the world itself has the same bar. When you're online the world's bar gets pushed one way or the other, essentially randomly. It has something to do with other players, but since you can't control it we'll just say it's random.

This is all relevant because some things only happen when the World Tendency is 100% white or black. There are some things influenced by Character Tendency too, as I recall. It's been a while since I was in game, so I may have this slightly sideways in the details. In general that's how it goes though.

One nice thing about reviving to human in Demons' Souls (as opposed to Dark Souls) is that you don't need to go anywhere special to do it. In Dark Souls, you need to aquire humanity (either by playing or by using a humanity item), then return to a bonfire and revive to human. In Demons' Souls, you just need to use an ephemeral eye stone (or help someone defeat a boss). Poof! You're instantly human. This is rather convenient when you're attempting to summon somone; in Dark Souls, I can't even count how many times I've gone to summon somone at a particular location, only to have to backtrack to the nearest bonfire when I remember that I'm still undead .

It's easier to summon in this game because everyone is connected on one giant server. That was one of my biggest gripes with Dark Souls. This is why you see so many more bloodstains, messages, and phantoms running around in the game. It used to be that way, at least.

Just popping in to say that I've started playing Demon's Souls (thanks, PS+!) this week -- I think I'm getting close to the end of 1-1. I had tried the game a long while back, but didn't get very far... then about half of Dark Souls last year trained me up, and this game's feeling much more familiar. I won't say "easy", but I at least have a clue about what I'm doing, and haven't yet died once (other than at the end boss of the tutorial).

I'm currently playing as a regular soldier, with sword and shield. Haven't had any reason to deviate from that yet.

Edit: I forgot to mention... I think I really prefer the Demon's Souls aspect of world design, as far as the unlockable shortcuts to/from the beginning hub entrance of the level. I realize Dark Souls also has shortcuts of various sorts, but it doesn't feel quite as well designed & linked together. Also, it feels very weird to walk through a fog door and be able to walk right back out. What's the point of the fog doors, if it doesn't restrict backwards movement?

merphle wrote:

Also, it feels very weird to walk through a fog door and be able to walk right back out. What's the point of the fog doors, if it doesn't restrict backwards movement? :)

I always took it as a way of letting the player know they are making progress. My interpretation anyway. I didn't see any other game mechanic, except for the bosses.

EverythingsTentative wrote:
merphle wrote:

Also, it feels very weird to walk through a fog door and be able to walk right back out. What's the point of the fog doors, if it doesn't restrict backwards movement? :)

I always took it as a way of letting the player know they are making progress. My interpretation anyway. I didn't see any other game mechanic, except for the bosses.

In Dark Souls I feel like new enemies within the same "region" tend come into play after a fog door. For example you start seeing the undead knights for the first time after the fog door in the Undead Parish, and the Bonewheel Skeletons in the Catacombs. More or less a sign of "stuff is gonna get real past here".

merphle wrote:

Edit: I forgot to mention... I think I really prefer the Demon's Souls aspect of world design, as far as the unlockable shortcuts to/from the beginning hub entrance of the level. I realize Dark Souls also has shortcuts of various sorts, but it doesn't feel quite as well designed & linked together.

Agreed. The first couple areas in particular really exemplify this. It's not quite as good later in the game, but that was one of the most striking features of Demon's Souls the first time I played it. I don't know if I can think of a game where I enjoy the level design more.

Aaaand Demon's Souls NTSC version is acquired. Had the Hong Kong version as a friend had given it to me as a gift back in December. Gonna start me up some co-op soon!

Oh wow. I decided to fire up Demon's Souls for a few minutes. You know, just to create a character and see the intro. 2 hours later or so and I beat the Phalanx without dying once the whole time. It was a great place to stop. Love those shortcuts! I like how much more intimate this game feels than Dark Souls, at least at first. It's really much less overwhelming. I think I only skipped one thing -- a red eyed enemy guarding an item. I figured he'd probably get me after my black knight experience in the early game of Dark Souls. Also, I watched that video of the 502 ways to die in Dark Souls guy playing Demon's Souls for a bit. That at least reminded me not to mess with the red eyed-guy and made me wary of that boulder trap.

Found the Thief's ring which I probably won't end up using much is my guess and another rad ring which helps your health when you are in the soulless form or whatever it is. Pretty much cleared the whole first area except for that red eyed guy. I think I'm going to stick with Demon's Souls for now since lots of people should be playing it with PS+ making it free. I can always go back to Dark Souls later (I think I was about 25-30 hours in. Also, it's really nice to be able to just chill on the couch to play this sort of game. It's much more relaxing. What's the deal with backstab in this game? I've been trying to get that to work. I assume that you have to have your shield lowered, but I can't get L1 or L2 to trigger it. I don't think I really ever got it in Dark Souls either.

Love it!

You probably made it to Phalynx without dying because you put that time into Dark Souls. Learning the systems of these games is like learning to ride a bike. Once you get it, you might get a little rusty, but you never forget.

Good call on skipping the red-eye knight. You should be SL 30+ before you try to mess with him. I don't remember what he's guarding.

Don't write off the thief ring so quickly. It is easily one of the most useful rings in the game. The difference in agro radius is very noticeable. Try sneaking around some enemies with and without it for reference.

L1 or L2? Are you using shield in your right hand and weapon in your left? Try switching them around if so. Maybe you can't backstab with the left hand. Yes, you have to lower your shield before you can backstab, and you can't trigger it with heavy attack. Get behind them, drop your guard, and press R1.

Dyni wrote:

L1 or L2? Are you using shield in your right hand and weapon in your left? Try switching them around if so. Maybe you can't backstab with the left hand. Yes, you have to lower your shield before you can backstab, and you can't trigger it with heavy attack. Get behind them, drop your guard, and press R1.

I also find it much easier to backstab if you are not R3 locked on to the enemy, FWIW.

Sorry, I meant R1/R2. I'll practice.

Yeah, Dark Souls experience completely helped me. It was great.

Edit: To elaborate further, that experience from Dark Souls just made me feel like true badass for the first time playing this game. I hadn't quite gotten to that point in Dark Souls. I know the game is going to get way harder. However, since I feel like I have a fair amount of control over the game, I think I will not use a walkthrough like I usually did with Dark Souls. I'll just rely on asking questions in this thread. I'm playing as a plain old knight which was a good idea, I think, since I can stick with a longsword/shield.

I definitely won't discount the Thief Ring!

Alright, so, I played for another hour or so last night and had my first real death. I never counted the tutorial death. This is the second area moving on from the Phalanx. I made it to an area where you pass through fog. This was after making it past one castle wall area with a patrolling dragon and in a protected tower. There is a pretty big stretch with a dragon patrolling. There are a couple guys hiding behind barriers (I think there was a warning about a trap). I killed those guys and ran back to this protected tower to avoid getting roasted. I could see pretty far off maybe 3 guys and what looked to be the goal. I couldn't see anywhere else to go. So, knowing that this might be my death, I rushed for it. Turns out, there were about 3 crossbowmen and one of those fairly quick shield and sword guys (maybe a skeleton and not a zombie? He has a shiny blue shield and shiny sword.). I had taken those guys out just fine before, but not in this situation. I was really low on energy from sprinting (probably shouldn't have done that). So, after a few slashes, I took out a couple of the crossbowmen but promptly died. I don't really feel bad about it. I needed to stop for the evening and was sort of using the run for information, which I gained! So, seeing that I'm going to use you people for answers over a walkthough, here are my questions!

1. Do you just use the telescope by equipping it to a hand? I figure I could have used that to determine that there weren't just wimpy crossbowmen sitting across the way.
2.What exactly are the greenish fog barriers? I know the white ones signal a boss is ahead, but what does passing through a smaller greenish fog actually do?
3. I've upgraded my longsword to +1 at the Nexus, but I'm wondering how you upgrade your stats or if you even can. I would love a bit more endurance.
4. What's a good strategy for that section I'm at? I'm worried about not getting into cover before the dragon gets me. Is it possible to just run all the way to the guys and then sprint past them into cover? Maybe the dragon burns those enemies while I make it safely to cover? I was a bit flustered and didn't really notice what was just beyond the enemies.
5. Any miscellaneous tips? I can do the parry/riposte thing, but I usually don't screw with it because I want to play cautiously. I still haven't figured out how to backstab. Do you have to get in really close behind them? I don't really want to unlock from the enemy as suggested because that seems dangerous. I've been trying it by being locked on, circling around behind them when they attack, dropping my shield, and hitting R1. I am using a longsword.

Thanks! I know this info can be easily found, I just would much rather have a conversation with people about it. It somehow feels like that is the better way to play the game.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

2.What exactly are the greenish fog barriers? I know the white ones signal a boss is ahead, but what does passing through a smaller greenish fog actually do?

I think they are just progress markers more than anything.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

3. I've upgraded my longsword to +1 at the Nexus, but I'm wondering how you upgrade your stats or if you even can. I would love a bit more endurance.

Talk to the blind lady in the nexus. Also - don't forget to look around that lower chamber in the nexus as well as there are a couple of NPC's to either side hidden behind the pillars who sell mage and cleric spells. I only happened across them by accident.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

4. What's a good strategy for that section I'm at? I'm worried about not getting into cover before the dragon gets me. Is it possible to just run all the way to the guys and then sprint past them into cover? Maybe the dragon burns those enemies while I make it safely to cover? I was a bit flustered and didn't really notice what was just beyond the enemies.

If you're patient enough...

Spoiler:

You can kill the dragon from the top of the first tower. You'll need either a bow and a lot of arrows or magic though. Took me about 20min or so with the soul spell the royal starts with. If you do that - don't forget to go back and loot that hillside he was lounging around on earlier! Also I THINK you can consume it's soul without having to worry about it being used for crafting anything later - nets you a nice 10,000.

Otherwise, there's an area just ahead of the crossbowmen with a cart that you can use for cover without getting caught in dragonfire which definitely helps in that area. A couple of firebombs might be useful as well if you dont have ranged attacks.

Also upgrading your stats will totally help too

General tip I just learned the hard way - make sure to deposit all unused gear with the guy in the Nexus. Unlike Dark Souls you have a limit to the number of items you can carry, as well as the equipped encumbrance. I don't think it affects movement but it's annoying when you happen across some heavy armour you want to take with you but can't.