Turbine Finally Gets it. DDO Getting F2P Option.

Pages

http://www.massively.com/2009/06/09/...

It took them how many years to realize they offered nothing more than GW gave without subscription?

"Finally gets it"?

I don't get it.
The Realm, Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot, World of Warcraft, Everquest 2, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer Online, Eve Online...
The list goes on of MMOs following the "standard" subscription model. How many of those do much more than GW?

It's a different way of doing business, but that doesn't mean that anyone that releases an maintains an MMO under an industry standard model "doesn't get it". In fact, I would say that going F2P is even riskier than the old way.

What don't I get, because I don't follow the derision in your topic.

The Free version looks ridiculously crippled.. not sure if this will fly.

Free or not, the game just hasn't kept my interest. *shrug*

DDO is probably my favorite online game - it just was so group dependent...

TheGameguru wrote:

The Free version looks ridiculously crippled.. not sure if this will fly.

Agreed, might change before launch after testing. Right now I would say they need to hand out a little more on the free side. Also I think the game would benefit if the VIP price was lower, say $8 - $10....

armedbushido wrote:

DDO is probably my favorite online game - it just was so group dependent...

I love the design of the game. The playerbase is what ruined it.

Farscry wrote:
armedbushido wrote:

DDO is probably my favorite online game - it just was so group dependent...

I love the design of the game. The playerbase is what ruined it.

Sounds a lot like FFXI and me.

Duck - you had to play it; it's a great game, but barely an MMO.

I will seriously look into this, because while it didn't work with a fee, it might work for free.

AnimeJ wrote:
Farscry wrote:
armedbushido wrote:

DDO is probably my favorite online game - it just was so group dependent...

I love the design of the game. The playerbase is what ruined it.

Sounds a lot like FFXI and me.

What server? The FFXI community was awesome to me.

AnimeJ wrote:
Farscry wrote:
armedbushido wrote:

DDO is probably my favorite online game - it just was so group dependent...

I love the design of the game. The playerbase is what ruined it.

Sounds a lot like FFXI and me.

Yes, same here. The more group-dependent an mmo is, the more an impact the community has on the fun factor. In DDO, the combination of not having other players to experience the content with the way it was meant (find hidden spots, solve puzzles, etc) rather than just run through like a twink run, along with pubbies only running the most efficient xp/time quests over and over, really killed the elements that make DDO a good game. I had fun running with the goodjers while that was happening for a while, but after that the game died for me.

With FFXI, the sheer length of time it took to find a group most of the time, and then the demands upon playing precisely the "right" way and with the "right" gear and class setup (oh, and you're a noob without a subclass yet? Oh, sorry, nm, we need someone else) just killed the fun factor entirely.

There are good reasons why mmo's that provide soloability (at least making it viable and fun to do when you can't find a group, even if grouping is still the preferred method of play) are more successful than those that don't.

Farscry wrote:

There are good reasons why mmo's that provide soloability (at least making it viable and fun to do when you can't find a group, even if grouping is still the preferred method of play) are more successful than those that don't.

Amen to this. I've gotten a bit tired of that small subset that likes to scream about the ability to solo from zero to cap in an MMO is somehow killing the genre. You don't have to offer one man raids that drop the best loot in the game but at least give a player the option to experience a good chunk of the game's content without having to have a group.

A MMO going from subscription to F2P is typically a last ditch effort to get players interested before they pull the plug. I'd be surprised if DDO doesn't stand for Dungeons and Dragons Offline by this time next year.

Blind_Evil wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:
Farscry wrote:
armedbushido wrote:

DDO is probably my favorite online game - it just was so group dependent...

I love the design of the game. The playerbase is what ruined it.

Sounds a lot like FFXI and me.

What server? The FFXI community was awesome to me.

Cait Sith and one other. The issue I ran into more often than not was morons with preconceived notions. Dark Knights out dps everyone but mages, Dragoons suck, yadda.

Sounds interesting to me. Someone mentioned on gamasutra about how cool it would be if they took a page from cryptic and allowed user created dungeons and adventures. That would be incredible if they did that.

Not sure how I feel about buying classes, extra character slots, and having limited gold storage.

I'll probably give it another go thanks to this, but the limitations do seem pretty harsh.

Hmm, I'm not sure their source material would allow soloing easily; D&D is absolutely dependent on heavily compartmentalized skills.

I just don't see that fundamental design translating well to a solo environment. You'd pretty much have to have hirelings, and of course their AI will suck, because AI always sucks. Just the nature of the pen-and-paper game means it can't really be like other MMOs.

I bet it's a BLAST with an established group, though.

As kind of an aside, the real thing is also very oriented around mobs that have varying degrees of actual intelligence, instead of the butt-stupid aggro AI you get in nearly all these games. Jellies or oozes might function like the mobs in WoW, but kobolds and orcs aren't THAT dumb, and won't fall for the 'kill that loudmouth in plate mail!' tactic for very long.

With an intelligent leader, even level 1 kobolds can be a hell of a fight for a mid-level party. That was something I liked to do occasionally when DMing -- take a weak monster and come up with some way to scare the hell out of the players with it. The simple expedient of kobolds behind barricades shooting lots of arrows is a very dangerous setup for even a fairly well-armored party, because if there's 20 arrows coming at you a round, several are gonna hit, and they hurt.

One thing you essentially never see in MMO is group tactics -- the orcs seeing their buddies getting killed, and organically retreating and trying to set up a better defensive position, or even just all of them fleeing in sheer terror from the smiling guy with the big bloody axe.

Pah, they had my interest for a moment there, then I read that it will still be subscription based in Europe.

wahwah wrote:

Pah, they had my interest for a moment there, then I read that it will still be subscription based in Europe.

Oh FFS. I get so tired of this region nonsense. I was looking forward to installing it this weekend and bring my wife along, as well, but I guess not, then.

Malor - it was awesome with a GWJ group the first week. But it requires a set group to shine. How often can such a group all be available, though? And is playing say, once a week, worth the same $15/mo. as WoW?

That's where F2P makes sense to me.

I have been playing DDO off and on since its release. It actually is my top ranking game on Xfire. As much as I love the game and hope for its continued success, I never believed it should have been an MMO from the start.

If they had cut the favor grind and scaled down the raid content DDO could have been one of the best small party rpg's ever. The adventures as others have stated are perfect for a small static group leveling together. If they had kept the basic game play. Sold it as a stand alone game where players could host there own servers for smaller groups of players and added content via expansion packs instead of depending on the monthly free to generate revenue the game would have been more successful.

As much as I love and am addicted to MMOs I do not see then need for everything to be made into an MMO. There are plenty of MMOs out there that would have been much better as single player or small grouped networked games. DDO, auto assault, Tabula Rasa, and nerocron are just a few that I can think of that could have been quite successful taking that route. Up coming MMOs like Stargate Worlds for example would as fair better if they focuses less on the Massive part and more on small groups.

I hope the success of games like Left4dead can prove to companies that COOP games don't have to be massively to still be fun for a group of people.

Totally agreed, Arovin, but everyone wants WoW's enormous cashflow. Even the biggest and most successful of small-scale games will make maybe a hundred million dollars. WoW probably makes that much money every couple of months, and it just keeps on flowing.

I'd be rather surprised if any small-scale MMO-type game could make more than thirty million, which just doesn't look that appealing next to the several billion dollars that WoW will probably make over its lifetime.

Arovin wrote:

I have been playing DDO off and on since its release. It actually is my top ranking game on Xfire. As much as I love the game and hope for its continued success, I never believed it should have been an MMO from the start.

If they had cut the favor grind and scaled down the raid content DDO could have been one of the best small party rpg's ever. The adventures as others have stated are perfect for a small static group leveling together. If they had kept the basic game play. Sold it as a stand alone game where players could host there own servers for smaller groups of players and added content via expansion packs instead of depending on the monthly free to generate revenue the game would have been more successful.

This is so right, exactly my view. It should have been like NWN or something.

I'm going to keep my eye on this. I'd be up for playing with a group of people, I remember beta testing it and was a little meh. But that was beta and I was mostly doing things solo.

I'd be interested in a group too, but it'd have to be extremely casual. My work schedule makes having a once-a-week game session impossible, unless the rest of the group is based in Australia.

I got a beta invite for this...

Reading this interview on destructoid killed my excitement a little bit.

destructoid wrote:

This one’s kind of on the technical side. I noticed on the game’s website, and may have I read this incorrectly, as you gain levels if you’re playing for free, Eberron Unlimited, does loot decrease?

Fernando Paiz:
No. Absolutely not. So, the free players have the same access to loot as anybody else playing a particular piece of content, and as you’re playing for free, what’s going to happen is you’re going to reach certain, sort of, decision points where you might decide ‘do I pay for something or do I keep questing for it or keep making do with the content I have available to me right now?’

So one new element in there is something called ‘leveling sigils.’ After you reach level four, to proceed to level five, you’re going to need to find something called the “leveling sigil,” and that’ll essentially unlock the next range of four levels. Now that leveling sigil will drop as part of the quest rewards for a lot of the content you’ll have access to, and, again, players are welcome to just quest until they find it. Or, some players will choose to not do that and buy because they’re ready to move forward and they don’t want to wait.

So now I'm curious how much the sigils cost or how much grinding will be needed for one to drop. Can't be all that common or people would never opt to buy one instead.

Brizahd wrote:

Reading this interview on destructoid killed my excitement a little bit.

destructoid wrote:

This one’s kind of on the technical side. I noticed on the game’s website, and may have I read this incorrectly, as you gain levels if you’re playing for free, Eberron Unlimited, does loot decrease?

Fernando Paiz:
No. Absolutely not. So, the free players have the same access to loot as anybody else playing a particular piece of content, and as you’re playing for free, what’s going to happen is you’re going to reach certain, sort of, decision points where you might decide ‘do I pay for something or do I keep questing for it or keep making do with the content I have available to me right now?’

So one new element in there is something called ‘leveling sigils.’ After you reach level four, to proceed to level five, you’re going to need to find something called the “leveling sigil,” and that’ll essentially unlock the next range of four levels. Now that leveling sigil will drop as part of the quest rewards for a lot of the content you’ll have access to, and, again, players are welcome to just quest until they find it. Or, some players will choose to not do that and buy because they’re ready to move forward and they don’t want to wait.

So now I'm curious how much the sigils cost or how much grinding will be needed for one to drop. Can't be all that common or people would never opt to buy one instead.

It may have killed your excitement but it killed any chance that I ever play the game. Total douche move to go 'Well, you can either pay us to level up or you can grind it out.

AnimeJ wrote:
Brizahd wrote:

Reading this interview on destructoid killed my excitement a little bit.

So now I'm curious how much the sigils cost or how much grinding will be needed for one to drop. Can't be all that common or people would never opt to buy one instead.

It may have killed your excitement but it killed any chance that I ever play the game. Total douche move to go 'Well, you can either pay us to level up or you can grind it out.

There is a 3rd option.

When unlocking favor by completing quests on various difficulties you get credits to spend in the store. You can then use the points you got for free to buy a leveling sigil. There are 38 quests for levels 1-4 it would take very little effort to get enough favor to buy levels 5-8 without spending any real money.

AnimeJ wrote:

It may have killed your excitement but it killed any chance that I ever play the game. Total douche move to go 'Well, you can either pay us to level up or you can grind it out.

Since most popular games only offer the latter option, I'll call this a step forward.

Sota wrote:

Since most popular games only offer the latter option, I'll call this a step forward.

You are not paying to be power leveled, you still have to get the XP to reach level 4. The way it works it free players hit a wall every 4 levels. So as a free player you play normally doing quests and leveling up once you get enough XP to reach level 4 you are stuck till you use a leveling sigil. You have the option to purchase it from the store via real money, purchase it with free credits earned from doing quests on higher difficulties or hope you find one in a chest while you are playing.

Pages