Warhammer 40K: Space Marine

elewis17 wrote:
*Temporary thread jack*

Can someone please enlighten me? Where did the WH40K world come from? From what I gather it was a board game at one point? is this correct? Like a D&D type of game or something? Where did the DoW part come in? all of the sudden it went from dwarfs and orks type of thing to giant bad ass space ninja-marines?? I played DoW II and really liked it. I also tried out the MMO WH40K seemed ok, but I'm not allowed to play MMOs so I didn't dive too deep. Where can I catch up on the back story to all this?

Oh my..... *Awaits people far more involved with the Games Workshop lisences than he*

Awww, i may as well. I can't answer where they came from but WH40K is pretty old and was a response to the 'i hate orcs and elves and medieval stuff' mentality some people have.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhamm...

One thing..... there's a 40K MMO?!!

Duoae wrote:

One thing..... there's a 40K MMO?!!

Perhaps I am so naive that I thought that Warhammer online was associated with the 40K world. My bad.

Switchbreak wrote:
adam.greenbrier wrote:
It's the most natural evolution of modern action video games to have one simply titled "Space Marine." It's the game equivalent of Snakes on a Plane: why have a title when a description will do? Those poor marketing departments that slaved over titles like Doom and Gears of War must be pulling their hair out. The answer was so obvious all along.

I've always thought the fascist, ultratheocratic medieval-knight-with-hyper-drive Space Marine in Warhammer was not very generic compared to the nameless Space Marine from Unreal or Doom. The trailer is doing a lot to convince me otherwise, though - it kind of looks like the same roided out brainless bald badass with armor and a gun from every other video game. The only thing he's missing is a hoodie - I can only guess that that's a loot drop.

Space marines in 40k are anything but generic. The combination of ultrareligous monk, midieval knight, with enough "enhancements" to question the idea of still being human... It's an idea that's not really been matched for character. I really do wish GW gave them a more original name, to befit the unique setting in a rather interesting world. Then again, they've done that a lot... (I love 40k, I really do. But it's got the most bland/weak names for the most interesting stuff...)

However, I do have a lot of faith in Relic at this point. (Decent characterizations of the races in DoW 1 & 2 get them that much.). You've gotta think, with them being the only company that's scratched the surface of the space marines so far, you'd home someone would smack down whoever tried to make them too much of a bald badass.
(Rushing in with chainswords and power axes isn't unheard of for space marines either. And actually reasonably effective, provided you're smart about it.)

As it is, I never really look at the preview stuff at this phase in development. Especially for something like this. The publisher is trying to sell it to the mass market, and f*ck the fanbase, even if that's not what the company is actually doing.

I'll hold off judgment until I get a demo in my hands.

Edit:

Duoae wrote:

One thing..... there's a 40K MMO?!!

The MMO is Warhammer Fantasy. Which makes me a sad panda. It's a damned fun game... but I don't want to tromp around with damned swords anymore. Couldn't they have done it off of 40k? Maybe on a setting like multiple races all going after one world? They know how to do that.

I don't know much about it but here's what I've gleaned: Warhammer is originally a board game. It's more like Risk than D&D. It involves two guys placing a bunch of expensive miniature figurines on a table to look like two opposing armies. Then they take turns and roll dice to see whose miniature figurines reign supreme. Warhammer is the medieval fantasy version of the game that the recent MMO is based on. Warhammer 40k is the far future version of Warhammer, it contains both new and recycled concepts which is why you have old stuff like Orks and new stuff like Tyranids. Relic's Dawn of War series is an adaptation of Warhammer 40k to the RTS genre.

Edit: There is no WH40k MMO yet, but I believe there is one in development. Doesn't expect it until 2012 though:
http://www.massively.com/2009/04/03/...

I think the only 40k trivia I know is that there are no 40k dwarves because the Tyranid wiped them out. Not sure if I even got that right...

Kannon wrote:
Duoae wrote:

One thing..... there's a 40K MMO?!!

The MMO is Warhammer Fantasy. Which makes me a sad panda. It's a damned fun game... but I don't want to tromp around with damned swords anymore. Couldn't they have done it off of 40k? Maybe on a setting like multiple races all going after one world? They know how to do that.

Me too! When they announced it i was like.... MORE FANTASY?! Fantasy MMOs are like the WW2 of the FPS world....

elewis17 wrote:
Duoae wrote:

One thing..... there's a 40K MMO?!!

Perhaps I am so naive that I thought that Warhammer online was associated with the 40K world. My bad.

No worry, i can see that the name might be confusing. The settings aren't directly (if at all) connected though most of the races do have counterparts in either setting. The big tell between the two is that one is dark, gritty, gothic and ultra violent.... and the other one has space marines in it

Irongut wrote:
I think I the only 40k trivia I know is that there are no 40k dwarves because the Tyranid wiped them out. Not sure if I even got that right...

This must be a development since i stopped looking at the magazines. The squats were a part of the mythos when i was into WH40K.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squats_(Warhammer_40,000)#Removal_from_the_game

*Someone needs to get onto allowing brackets in urls for auto linking in the forum software...

Duoae wrote:
. The big tell between the two is that one is dark, gritty, gothic and ultra violent.... and the other one has space marines in it ;)

So Warhammer MMORPG is associated with the Warhammer story just not the 40k part? So does the 40k mean like 40k years into the future where religious-zealot-badasses waffle stomp ork ass?

elewis17 wrote:
Can someone please enlighten me? Where did the WH40K world come from?
From what I recall, WH40K was first paid out formally in the rulebook, "Rogue Trader - Warhammer 40,000" which was basically a single book of RPG/RTS rules and background that would allow you to play miniatures based Sci-Fi combat with nearly any miniature that you had. The history of the human civilization 40,000 years in the future of Games Workshop's Warhammer (Fantasy) world, allowing for Elves, Ogres, Orcs, Humans, Chaos, stc in the far future.. Evidently, where there is only war.

It detailed the basic societal structures of the various races, and gave a fairly deep back story to the history of the humans and their eternal emperor, a powerful psychic that was entombed in a machine that kept him alive and projecting a psychic beacon across the stars that allowed all human ships to use for navigation through the warp.

The great thing about the initial rulebook was that you could build an army of just about any motley crew of miniatures that you could assemble, as well as kit them out with any wargear/weapons/grenades/powers you might want to. Granted, this led to abuses like arming disposeable grunts with many warp grenades and creating unkillable hero characters armed with just about any device imaginable. Beyond that point, it turned into a major cash cow for GW, who continued to create iterations of the rules that negated the old armies, thus making you buy the new miniatures, where you continued to get less for more.. Making GW very well and truly rich.

That and having their White Dwarf Magazine coming out on a regular basis as well as novels, short stories, character studies, etc.. They basically built up a pretty believable deep world over a very long time.

elewis17 wrote:
Duoae wrote:
. The big tell between the two is that one is dark, gritty, gothic and ultra violent.... and the other one has space marines in it ;)

So Warhammer MMORPG is associated with the Warhammer story just not the 40k part? So does the 40k mean like 40k years into the future where religious-zealot-badasses waffle stomp ork ass?


I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that 40K is not intended to take place in the future of the Warhammer fantasy universe. It is an entirely different universe, originally designed as a sci-fi reimagining of Warhammer fantasy, with Orks, Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, Eldar, and Squats taking the place of the Orc, Empire, Chaos, Elf, and Dwarf armies, and psionics and warp energies taking the place of magic. Since then it has evolved away from it's Warhammer Fantasy roots, adding a number of races with no fantasy counterpart.

Kannon wrote:
I really do wish GW gave them a more original name

Adeptus Astartes

Barab wrote:
Kannon wrote:
I really do wish GW gave them a more original name

Adeptus Astartes

Ok, a better name in common use. (I actually came back to stealth-edit that in.)

No PC game - no moneys from me.

muttonchop wrote:
elewis17 wrote:
Duoae wrote:
. The big tell between the two is that one is dark, gritty, gothic and ultra violent.... and the other one has space marines in it ;)

So Warhammer MMORPG is associated with the Warhammer story just not the 40k part? So does the 40k mean like 40k years into the future where religious-zealot-badasses waffle stomp ork ass?


I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that 40K is not intended to take place in the future of the Warhammer fantasy universe. It is an entirely different universe, originally designed as a sci-fi reimagining of Warhammer fantasy, with Orks, Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, Eldar, and Squats taking the place of the Orc, Empire, Chaos, Elf, and Dwarf armies, and psionics and warp energies taking the place of magic. Since then it has evolved away from it's Warhammer Fantasy roots, adding a number of races with no fantasy counterpart.

Yeah, i was just making a lame attempt at humour. There's no connection other than the four main 'stereotypical' races around which each 'world' revolves.

To be honest, i find the whole 40K universe very interesting and was buying the manuals and painting the miniatures even though i never actually played the game. I never read any of the actual books released though, with the exception of Harlequin (which i liked)... i just liked the cool artwork, backstories and unit descriptions in the manuals.

mrwynd wrote:
Haakon7 wrote:
Indignant wrote:
No love for the PC for this one? Bummer.

Oh, Relic. After all I've bought from you... Right in the heart.

Same thing I was thinking...C'mon Relic! I've got a 360 controller plugged into my PC, meet me halfway!


This, this, and this.

muttonchop wrote:
elewis17 wrote:
Duoae wrote:
. The big tell between the two is that one is dark, gritty, gothic and ultra violent.... and the other one has space marines in it ;)

So Warhammer MMORPG is associated with the Warhammer story just not the 40k part? So does the 40k mean like 40k years into the future where religious-zealot-badasses waffle stomp ork ass?


I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that 40K is not intended to take place in the future of the Warhammer fantasy universe. It is an entirely different universe, originally designed as a sci-fi reimagining of Warhammer fantasy, with Orks, Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, Eldar, and Squats taking the place of the Orc, Empire, Chaos, Elf, and Dwarf armies, and psionics and warp energies taking the place of magic. Since then it has evolved away from it's Warhammer Fantasy roots, adding a number of races with no fantasy counterpart.

Yea, more or less this. The more indepth version is that GW is working on 35 or 40 years of table top strategy gaming. It's kind of like Risk, but more freeform and you start with a static force as opposed to building up.

Fantasy(WHFB) is the license that the current DAoC styled MMO is built off of. Very much high fantasy, with all sorts of good stuffs involved. The tabletop version of the game is more rigid and structured; units march in cohesion, with the exception of a few 'skirmishing' style units that have a more free-formed move, and don't need to worry about wheeling and facing and things like that. Very similar to an actual old army

40k(WH40k) is very strongly SciFi and came about a few years later. It's more like a tactical rpg, somewhat in the same vein as Starcraft, as far as scale goes. It's more free moving than WHFB; harder in some ways, easier in others. As for Dwarves in 40k, they're long gone last I checked; the squats were axed over a decade ago. It'd be kind of weird to see them return as the Demiurg.

I'd describe WH/WH40K more like chess with some rpg and luck thrown into the mix.

When I 1st got into WH40K I think they did have some crossing over of the two games. Something involving the Slann and their starships being the reason for chaos gates on the warhammer world. Also and I could be wrong but I think in the realm of chaos books they had chaos fantasy minies that could be fielded with wh40k weapons.

They still seem to be teasing at a possible connection between the two with a recent series of books called Liber Chaotica. They are written by Richard Kless, a Warhammer Fantasy character who is investigating the powers of Chaos. It does allude to some events that happen in the Warhammer 40k universe. Even has pictures of space marines.

All the stuff I found on Demiurg seems to be hearsay. Found a post by Jervis Johnson on why they got rid of the squats but no way of knowing if it is really written by him. No source given for it.

Indignant wrote:
No love for the PC for this one? Bummer.

My thoughts exactly. Though the trailer does give me a powerful reason to consider investing in a console. And a case of priapism ....

Well whenever I hear Space Marine I think of the armor we see in Games Workshop games. I don't imagine a marine in a cosmonaut uniform or a dude from an Alien movie.

I want sequel to Dark Omen. God, I loved that game.

Most wrote:
I want sequel to Dark Omen. God, I loved that game.

WH: Mark of Chaos is supposed to be a spiritual sequel to Shadow of the Horned Rat and Dark Omen

But significantly less fun.

Switchbreak wrote:
doubleplusungood wrote:
I would settle for an updated version of Space Hulk.

There is a Space Hulk Dawn of War mod, and a sequel to it for Winter Assault out there. I haven't had a chance to play them yet - I keep meaning to reinstall Dawn of War and check it out but I never get around to it. So they might not be any good, but they sure look interesting.

Thanks! Awesome find! I used to play a lot of Space Hulk (both board game and video game versions). I will now have to dig up my copies of DoW and DoW WA.

AnimeJ wrote:
As for Dwarves in 40k, they're long gone last I checked; the squats were axed over a decade ago. It'd be kind of weird to see them return as the Demiurg.

Squats are silly and so are their lame trikes.

interstate78 wrote:
Most wrote:
I want sequel to Dark Omen. God, I loved that game.

WH: Mark of Chaos is supposed to be a spiritual sequel to Shadow of the Horned Rat and Dark Omen

NathanialG wrote:
But significantly less fun.

I actually enjoy it quite a bit...still keep it installed and play a game here/there.

ranalin wrote:
Kannon wrote:
Duoae wrote:

One thing..... there's a 40K MMO?!!

The MMO is Warhammer Fantasy. Which makes me a sad panda. It's a damned fun game... but I don't want to tromp around with damned swords anymore. Couldn't they have done it off of 40k? Maybe on a setting like multiple races all going after one world? They know how to do that.

They're developing a 40k MMO thats scheduled for release next year.

If WAR is any indication, it should be delayed a few times and be released in 2012

Kannon wrote:
Duoae wrote:

One thing..... there's a 40K MMO?!!

The MMO is Warhammer Fantasy. Which makes me a sad panda. It's a damned fun game... but I don't want to tromp around with damned swords anymore. Couldn't they have done it off of 40k? Maybe on a setting like multiple races all going after one world? They know how to do that.

They're developing a 40k MMO thats scheduled for release next year.

Edit: actually it'll be a 11/12 release

interstate78 wrote:
ranalin wrote:
Kannon wrote:
Duoae wrote:

One thing..... there's a 40K MMO?!!

The MMO is Warhammer Fantasy. Which makes me a sad panda. It's a damned fun game... but I don't want to tromp around with damned swords anymore. Couldn't they have done it off of 40k? Maybe on a setting like multiple races all going after one world? They know how to do that.

They're developing a 40k MMO thats scheduled for release next year.

If WAR is any indication, it should be delayed a few times and be released in 2012

The scheduled date is 12 i believe and Mythic isnt working on it. Vigil Games is.

Vigil Games was founded in 2005 by David Adams and legendary comic artist Joe Madureira. Everyone at Vigil is dedicated to creating ground breaking next generation games. Vigil Games is a division of THQ. For more information on Vigil Games, please visit the company section.

If nothing else it should look good

Maq wrote:
Every time I see something like the Gears of War franchise and think that games can't get any more ludicrously macho, I'm reminded that 40k has had this covered for decades.

Brother Heinrich! I note with appreciation the flying buttresses on your Gothic shoulder armour, let us hoist our rapid fire hand howitzers and set to those miscreant orks!

They do manage to do it with a bit more flavour, though. For every: "Cowards die in shame!" there's a "There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt" or "The man who has nothing can still have faith."

Consume feces and perish!

Rat Boy wrote:
Consume feces and perish!

I shall remove thy head and forthwith defecate into the aperture!

Sonicator wrote:
Maq wrote:
Every time I see something like the Gears of War franchise and think that games can't get any more ludicrously macho, I'm reminded that 40k has had this covered for decades.

Brother Heinrich! I note with appreciation the flying buttresses on your Gothic shoulder armour, let us hoist our rapid fire hand howitzers and set to those miscreant orks!

They do manage to do it with a bit more flavour, though. For every: "Cowards die in shame!" there's a "There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt" or "The man who has nothing can still have faith."

And they shall know no fear...

An open mind is like a fortress with its walls unguarded and its gates wide open.

A mind without purpose will wander in dark places.

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

A man can remake the world if he has a dream and no facts to cloud his mind.

Anyone who will not fight by your side is an enemy you must crush.

Camouflage is the color of fear.

Faith is the sturdiest armour. Hatred the surest weapon.

Faith without deeds is worthless.

Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none

The uniforms of the Imperial Guard are camouflaged in order to protect their wearers by hiding them from sight. The principle is that what the enemy cannot see he cannot kill. This is not the way of the Adeptus Astartes. A Space Marine’s armour is bright with heraldry that proclaims his devotion to his Chapter and the beloved Emperor of Mankind. Our principle is that what the enemy can see, he will soon learn to fear…”
+++ Chaplain Aston, 10th Company, Fire Hawks Chapter +++