Random thing you loathe right now.

Yoreel wrote:
Jonman wrote:

Whichever unfortunate soul at work saw fit to leave his literally-sh*t-filled underpants on the bathroom floor.

What a jerk move. I don't care how crappy your day is, you just don't do that.

I know, right? There's spare garbage bags in every garbage bin in the building. Captain Crappypants could have returned to the scene of the crime with one to clean up, but no, that would be too difficult.

Jonman wrote:

Whichever unfortunate soul at work saw fit to leave his literally-sh*t-filled underpants on the bathroom floor.

You guys have problems with that type of foolishness too, eh? You'd think offices full of highly-educated professionals wouldn't have major issues with people who can't aim, can't flush, can't get things in the bowl, etc.

Jonman wrote:
Yoreel wrote:
Jonman wrote:

Whichever unfortunate soul at work saw fit to leave his literally-sh*t-filled underpants on the bathroom floor.

What a jerk move. I don't care how crappy your day is, you just don't do that.

I know, right? There's spare garbage bags in every garbage bin in the building. Captain Crappypants could have returned to the scene of the crime with one to clean up, but no, that would be too difficult.

You should have placed them in a communal area in a makeshift 'lost and found' box.

Kraint wrote:
Jonman wrote:

Whichever unfortunate soul at work saw fit to leave his literally-sh*t-filled underpants on the bathroom floor.

You guys have problems with that type of foolishness too, eh? You'd think offices full of highly-educated professionals wouldn't have major issues with people who can't aim, can't flush, can't get things in the bowl, etc.

Public bathroom etiquette (or lack thereof) blows my mind.

Kraint wrote:
Jonman wrote:

Whichever unfortunate soul at work saw fit to leave his literally-sh*t-filled underpants on the bathroom floor.

You guys have problems with that type of foolishness too, eh? You'd think offices full of highly-educated professionals wouldn't have major issues with people who can't aim, can't flush, can't get things in the bowl, etc.

Thanks to DG Radio, I can't read stories like these without hearing the Poo Crimes theme in my head.

Low-life, scum-sucking, crystal-healing, chakra-balancing, cupping, needling motherf*cking quacks.

Yeah, I'm talking to you, you acupuncturist piece of sh*t.

Remember the pretty young woman who came to see you a few months ago because her stomach was feeling more full and tense? The one you told had an imbalance in her kidney chi due to toxins? The one you merrily strung along with expensive sessions of useless needling for months on end while her belly got bigger and bigger? THE ONE YOU SHOULD HAVE TOLD TO SEE A DOCTOR IMMEDIATELY?

I saw her today. I ultrasounded her today. I saw her CT today.

I was there when she found out about the giant cyst filling her abdomen from the ovarian cancer she didn't know she had.

The cancer that will likely kill her now.

The cancer we might have saved her from a couple of months ago.

But no. You "natural doctors" with your f*cking made-up credentials and complete lack of any accountability to any agency were there to make sure that didn't happen.

If an actual physician had screwed up like this, he'd be held to account. There would be a case-report given in a morbidity-and-mortality conference, so we could figure out how such a horrible mistake could happen. But then, a real physician wouldn't have let her get to this point without a workup.

But you? No accountability. You've carefully ensured that what you do is "entertainment" and the pseudo-medications that you give out are "food-supplements", so that you can't get sued for malpractice no matter how badly you f*ck things up.

So keep sneering about "Western medicine" and keep announcing the superiority of powdered tiger's testicles for asthma/cancer/diabetes. Keep entertaining the people with more money than sense. The ones who would rather use an "ancient remedy" than get some sleep, eat a reasonable diet, and exercise once in a damned while to stay healthy. Meanwhile, we'll do what we can for the latest of your victims. We'll do our best to save this one, although you've already taken away almost all her hope.

She's not even thirty yet. I'm not sure she'll get there now.

f*ck you. I can't say that strongly enough.

f*ck you.

Your words make me angry at those people too.

Coldstream wrote:

Low-life, scum-sucking, crystal-healing, chakra-balancing, cupping, needling motherf*cking quacks.

Write this out by hand, sign it, and send it to the quack in question (maybe skip the first two lines).

It's not accountability, but it's about as good as you're going to get. Maybe, just maybe, it'll mean the next time this happens, he/she'll think twice.

Coldstream wrote:

If an actual physician had screwed up like this, he'd be held to account. There would be a case-report given in a morbidity-and-mortality conference, so we could figure out how such a horrible mistake could happen. But then, a real physician wouldn't have let her get to this point without a workup.

But you? No accountability. You've carefully ensured that what you do is "entertainment" and the pseudo-medications that you give out are "food-supplements", so that you can't get sued for malpractice no matter how badly you f*ck things up.

Is this something that can be taken to the media? I know it isn't new news, but it's something that the public obviously needs to be reminded about (despite the annual segments on the news, I still have co-workers who don't feel they need the (free, provided at our workplace, takes 10 min of their day) flu vaccine). Having a human face put to it (if, for example, your pt was willing) could maybe shock some people and then the quacks can at least be made accountable to public opinion, if not regulation or legislation.

And people still ask "What's the harm?" when discussing psuedoscience. I cannot agree with you strongly enough, Coldstream, and I'm sorry that you had to deal with this. Given how it makes me want to punch someone in the face repeatedly, I can only imagine how you're feeling.

=(

Jonman wrote:

Whichever unfortunate soul at work saw fit to leave his literally-sh*t-filled underpants on the bathroom floor.

You need to write into DGRadio with this poo crime.

Coldstream wrote:

She's not even thirty yet. I'm not sure she'll get there now.

f*ck you. I can't say that strongly enough.

f*ck you.

I'm going to get my pitchfork.

mudbunny wrote:
Jonman wrote:

Whichever unfortunate soul at work saw fit to leave his literally-sh*t-filled underpants on the bathroom floor.

You need to write into DGRadio with this poo crime.

Yup.

Coldstream wrote:

Low-life, scum-sucking, crystal-healing, chakra-balancing, cupping, needling motherf*cking quacks.
(. . .)
f*ck you.

Amen brother, my torch and pitchfork await your orders.

Serious question - can these people be sued? From my igloo it seems like malpractice suits are fairly common place down there and I would think even a single successful suit would reign this stuff in a fair bit. Surely 'freedom of religion' or 'entertainment' only grant them so much leeway... but then I have no idea what absurd contract they force you to sign when to make use of these "services".

Coldstream wrote:

Low-life, scum-sucking, crystal-healing, chakra-balancing, cupping, needling motherf*cking quacks.
(. . .)
f*ck you.

pitchfork + eleventy billion.

krev82 wrote:

Serious question - can these people be sued?

Well, theoretically anyone can be sued. However, due to the way they've positioned themselves legally, it's extraordinarily difficult to bring any sort of accountability to the 'alternative' practitioners. Due to extremely heavy lobbying on the almost criminally lucrative alternative medicine racketeers, there are two major pillars to their immunity.

The first is that all of the alternative medicines are considered 'food supplements'. This is critical, since standard medications are required by law to be shown to be both safe and effective (within reason). In contrast, as a food, alternative medications are not required to demonstrate safety or efficacy before being allowed on the market, and can only be withdrawn from the market if the FDA can produce evidence that the alternative medications are actively harmful (i.e. full of heavy metals like many of the 'supplements' from China).

The second pillar is that alternative treatments are considered to be entertainment, rather than true medical treatment, in the eyes of the law. Again, this means that there is no requirement to demonstrate safety and efficacy before these services are sold to the public. And even in cases where clear and indisputable harm has been demonstrated (e.g. ear candling) and the FDA has banned the treatment, there is virtually no enforcement.

Finally, I personally believe that part of the blame rests with the real medical community. Over the past decade or so, there has been a huge push for "inclusiveness" and exhortations to be "non-judgmental" with respect to non-physician practitioners. The result has been a huge push for additional privileges by the mid-levels (which is fine with adequate training) and a staggering increase in alternative practitioners passing themselves off as doctors. A physician friend of mine got a massage a while ago and the masseuse introduced herself as "Doctor Karen". When my friend inquired as to where she went to medical school, the masseuse informed her that she was a "Doctor of Health", complete with a printed out diploma from some online course. With a politically passive physician base (who, in my highly biased opinion, are probably more concerned with treating patients than playing politics), there has been no push to ensure that patients are properly informed as to who holds what role in their care. Right now, if you see a long white coat on someone in a hospital, it could be a doctor, nurse, PA, or freaking janitor. With patients already afraid and confused, that just isn't right.

If physicians would stand up as a group and denounce the quacks both publicly and politically, I think things would get much better.

You know the real tragedy though? There's probably some good medicine hidden in the middle of all that quackery, but we'll never find it as long as the crystal-healers are allowed to pass themselves off as untouchable medical doctors.

Edit: Thanks for letting me get all that stuff off my chest, guys. I didn't realise how angry I was about it until I started writing.

You know what's good for anger? Quartz.

Bonus_Eruptus wrote:

You know what's good for anger? Quartz.

Yeah, it's nice and sharp. Can (and has been) used for arrow and spear heads. *nod nod*

@Coldstream.

I feel your pain. I have managed to convince my wife to not let my mother-in-law take our daughters to chiropractors for their excema. It took many, many hours.

mudbunny wrote:

@Coldstream.

I feel your pain. I have managed to convince my wife to not let my mother-in-law take our daughters to chiropractors for their excema. It took many, many hours.

Sweet Jebus, that doesn't make ANY sense. I go to a chiropractor for spinal manipulation due to a motorcycle accident. She is one of the good ones, no meal supplements, ointments, fish oil, crystal crap, just honest to goodness, skeletal realignment of misaligned structure, based on xrays, and comparative analysis of results (that good stuff Coldstream mentioned hidden in all the quackery).

How the f*ck could your mother-in-law think internal structural manipulation would help a dermatological condition?

Thank you for that detailed and informative answer Coldstream, I loathe that the broader situation has gotten so out of hand that these snake oil vendors will never come to any sort of justice.

m0nk3yboy wrote:

How the f*ck could your mother-in-law think internal structural manipulation would help a dermatological condition?

The pushed claim is usually something along the lines of

Your body is capable of naturally healing itself from anything, nervous system interference is what stops from doing so. Chiropractic Adjustment can remove this nerve system interference, allowing the body to function optimally.

If you skim around you can find claims of it fixing excema, asthma, cancer, glaucoma, and even blindness. One human brain + "expert" telling it stuff + ton of anecdotal "evidence" + wishful or hopeful thinking = snake oil buyer.

When I was a kid, my best friend's mother was into that bullsh*t crystal healing crap. She also had him taking no kidding, over 20 different supplements a day, most of which were those hemeopathic things that are diluted so much that they essentially have 0 active ingredients. When I was over, she wouldn't let us eat anything until she passed her crystals over it and often, she would throw out perfectly good food she had just prepared or taken out of the package because the crystals "said" something was wrong with it. Once his Dad (who was whipped within an inch of his life but finally grew a set one day for a brief period) told her enough was enough, she stopped throwing food out but still insisted that it be "purified" with her crystals before we could eat it. After a while, I almost entirely stopped going there and always had my friend over to my place instead. I can't stand that woman or anyone who has beliefs like that and attempts to push them as "medicine". If you want to be stupid with your own health in whatever way, that's your choice and as a free society, you should be free to make your own dumb choices. But when you start infiltrating the medical establishment, you've gone too far and need to be stopped.

Ugh, sorry for the rant. Coldstream's post just reminded me how frustrating stuff like that is. :/

Anyone know of a foundation that runs ad campaigns to educate people about this alternative healing garbage and get them to see a real doctor?

Got a nice letter in the mail from the company I interviewed with several weeks back. Glad they let me know I wasn't selected for the job, but really bummed cause it was a good fit for me, and I nailed the interview. Now I get to second guess how it went, and if I asked for too much money. I think i'm going to just fall back on the knowledge that they were interviewing a couple people from within the company, and that they decided to promote from within.

Playing mini devil's advocate for a second here... and maybe this should get it's own thread at some point seeing how riled up most of us are about this. But how much responsibility for her actions should the woman take or bare for seeing the quack and not getting a second opinion founded in western science? Don't get me wrong i'm not saying that because of her... trust of this quack she deserves to die good lord no, but can we put all the blame on this jack ass who sold her quartz and and mint tea as a way to balance her chakra's? or is it a 90/10 split 50/50/ 20/80?

Cayne wrote:

Playing mini devil's advocate for a second here... and maybe this should get it's own thread at some point seeing how riled up most of us are about this. But how much responsibility for her actions should the woman take or bare for seeing the quack and not getting a second opinion founded in western science? Don't get me wrong i'm not saying that because of her... trust of this quack she deserves to die good lord no, but can we put all the blame on this jack ass who sold her quartz and and mint tea as a way to balance her chakra's? or is it a 90/10 split 50/50/ 20/80?

Sure, but usually when someone is conned (for the first time) you don't blame the victim because they were stupid enough to fall for it. Fool me once and all that.

gregrampage wrote:
Cayne wrote:

Playing mini devil's advocate for a second here... and maybe this should get it's own thread at some point seeing how riled up most of us are about this. But how much responsibility for her actions should the woman take or bare for seeing the quack and not getting a second opinion founded in western science? Don't get me wrong i'm not saying that because of her... trust of this quack she deserves to die good lord no, but can we put all the blame on this jack ass who sold her quartz and and mint tea as a way to balance her chakra's? or is it a 90/10 split 50/50/ 20/80?

Sure, but usually when someone is conned (for the first time) you don't blame the victim because they were stupid enough to fall for it. Fool me once and all that.

Plus, the problem is the acupuncturist to her, for all intents and purposes was a "Doctor." That is part of the problem. They can sell themselves as a credible source, but have tons of loopholes to hide behind when their "advice" goes sour.

On a semi-related note. Pediatricians are starting to refuse to take on unvaccinated kids. I know this will cause a sh*t-storm, but I'm all for it. You want to risk your kids' lives by not vaccinating them? I think you're horribly, horribly wrong and I hope that your child will never have to pay the price for your unmitigated ignorance and / or stupidity, but it's your choice. However, if you put my newborn daughter at risk of pertussis because she's too young to receive the vaccine, I will kneecap you.

Man, f*ck psuedoscience in general. This article probably belongs in the 'love' thread.

Rallick wrote:

On a semi-related note. Pediatricians are starting to refuse to take on unvaccinated kids.

Good for them.