Bioshock 2 Catch-All

nukacola23 wrote:

Yep, and it will be as popular as Dark Sector's or UT's multiplayer was. I think it's a waste of resources.

I agree.

Not every game needs a multiplayer mode.

What happened to an old fashioned good single player game?

Lard wrote:
nukacola23 wrote:

Yep, and it will be as popular as Dark Sector's or UT's multiplayer was. I think it's a waste of resources.

I agree.

Not every game needs a multiplayer mode.

What happened to an old fashioned good single player game?

Like Bioshock, you mean?

Seriously. What resources are you guys talking about? It's being developed by a different team. No resources are being diverted from the single player game to make this happen. How is the addition of a multiplayer mode to Bioshock 2 anything but added value?

Podunk wrote:

How is the addition of a multiplayer mode to Bioshock 2 anything but added value?

Is that the same 'added value' that paid-for DLC map packs bring to a game? The kind of added value that makes the publishers of World at War very happy every night before they retire to their obsidian sarcophagi? (not to be confused with sarcophagous!)

Duoae wrote:

Is that the same 'added value' that paid-for DLC map packs bring to a game? The kind of added value that makes the publishers of World at War very happy every night before they retire to their obsidian sarcophagi? (not to be confused with sarcophagous!)

Podunk wrote:
Lard wrote:
nukacola23 wrote:

Yep, and it will be as popular as Dark Sector's or UT's multiplayer was. I think it's a waste of resources.

I agree.

Not every game needs a multiplayer mode.

What happened to an old fashioned good single player game?

Like Bioshock, you mean?

Seriously. What resources are you guys talking about? It's being developed by a different team. No resources are being diverted from the single player game to make this happen. How is the addition of a multiplayer mode to Bioshock 2 anything but added value?

It's fixing something that isn't broken.

It's exactly the same thing that's happening with Uncharted 2.

Lard wrote:

It's fixing something that isn't broken.

It's exactly the same thing that's happening with Uncharted 2.

Ah, another unreleased game about which you are apparently angry.

Podunk wrote:
Lard wrote:

It's fixing something that isn't broken.

It's exactly the same thing that's happening with Uncharted 2.

Ah, another unreleased game about which you are apparently angry. :)

I don't get the anger about the multiplayer on both those games, I mean who knows how the multiplayer will be, I think it's to early to say they will hurt or help the games.

Podunk wrote:
Lard wrote:

It's fixing something that isn't broken.

It's exactly the same thing that's happening with Uncharted 2.

Ah, another unreleased game about which you are apparently angry. :)

I don't get the anger about the multiplayer on both those games, I mean who knows how the multiplayer will be, I think it's to early to say if it will hurt or help the games.

Podunk wrote:

Some of you guys want to hate this game so bad.

edit: agree 100% on the bee plasmid.

Nice to see someone else saying it. I’m fighting hard to maintain neutrality. I see some potential for good and some potential for suck. Truth is we know crackerjack little about this game. Anyone at this point who declares this game as awesome (which I don’t think anyone has) or as a complete failure is not making this decision based on what they want—there’s simply not enough information to ape what the experience is going to be like. Just my opinion, of course.

Also, the bee plasmid was an absolute favorite of mine.

Lothar wrote:

*Double post

So confused you responded twice! Wow...

I don't really care about mp in Bioshock 2. I won't be playing it anyway.

Lothar wrote:

I don't get the anger about the multiplayer on both those games, I mean who knows how the multiplayer will be, I think it's to early to say if it will hurt or help the games.

I think it's less anger then just dissapointment that money and resources that could have gone into making a better single player experience are instead being used on a multiplayer aspect that will be pointless. It doesn't even matter how the multiplayer will be, it could be fantastic, but that won't change the fact that it's a waste of time since nobody will play it.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that no one will play the multiplayer side, nor will I claim that it's not going to be at least somewhat fun. But being the avid Singleplayer that I am, I just find no interest in the idea of a multiplayer game set in the BioShock universe. Only certain games have gotten their MP grasps around me, CoD4 being one, TF2, L4D (though I haven't played any of them in a while, due to time constraints). The games that focus on MP, namely, are the MP games that interest me. An obvious statement, but that said anyway, multiplayer in the BioShock universe just won't feel like anything but tacked on in my mind.

Unless it's a multiplayer-focused game, multiplayer is almost always "tacked on". Halo, CoD4, and Gears of War all had well-developed single player campaigns, with multiplayer as an added extra. How many people accurately predicted the success of multiplayer in any of those games?

Podunk wrote:
Lard wrote:

It's fixing something that isn't broken.

It's exactly the same thing that's happening with Uncharted 2.

Ah, another unreleased game about which you are apparently angry. :)

Same problem though.

muttonchop wrote:

Unless it's a multiplayer-focused game, multiplayer is almost always "tacked on". Halo, CoD4, and Gears of War all had well-developed single player campaigns, with multiplayer as an added extra. How many people accurately predicted the success of multiplayer in any of those games?

I'd say that's arguable, though. Those are all FPS games with solid (arguably, *cough* Halo's story sucks *cough*) SP campaigns, but their successes as multiplayer games were pretty well thought out. Halo: yeah, MP was definitely not the focus upon release, but the game was, in it's infancy, intended to be a multiplayer game. It wasn't until Bungie was bought out by Microsoft and made to revamp the game for the burgeoning Xbox that the focus became more singe-player-oriented. So I'd say it's safe to assume multiplayer was always at the very least in the back of the minds at Bungie. GoW was developed by Unreal, so MP was definitely a given there--good ol' Cliffy B even admitted as much in interviews and behind-the-scenes videos. And the CoD series had enough time to percolate on SP that by the time Modern Warfare was released, they had the basis for SP campaigns down so well that Infinity Ward could basically drop the models and environments into the engine and focus more on the multiplayer aspect.

EDIT: By "tacked-on" I meant that the multiplayer aspect is an afterthought. Whether any of those games just mentioned were focused on multiplayer or not, there was a great deal of effort put into making their MP aspects fun, and obviously those MP aspects were not a last minute add-on. And this is not to say that BS2's MP aspect is an afterthought as well, but it just looks that way so far. But, just as the CoD series establisjed itself as solid singleplayer experiences before the great MP of CoD4, so too could BioShock 2 achieve hat success.

I understand impulse hesitation about multiplayer for games like RE5 (turrets don't do well at multiplayer) and Uncharted (some people found the fgunplay janky), but I thought the mechanics of fighting in Bioshock were more then servicable. I believe multiplayer could work. Chances are that it could suck. In fact, if the maps are deathmatch or some generic capture points, it will suck. If they use the maps to create a unique experience in gameplay it could work awesome. Who knows which it'll be until it's released or until there are leaks.

To be positive (for once), if multiplayer sucks we can always skip it and I don't imagine they're going to take resources away from single player to make multiplayer on a title this big.

A fairly lengthy video of gameplay with commentary. I'm not sure if it's new. Pretty broad stuff and I haven't been keeping up with the discussion here so I'll go ahead and say there is some spoilage just to be safe.
Great looking stuff.

Dr_Awkward wrote:

A fairly lengthy video of gameplay with commentary. I'm not sure if it's new. Pretty broad stuff and I haven't been keeping up with the discussion here so I'll go ahead and say there is some spoilage just to be safe.
Great looking stuff.

I have to say, I've been a pretty negative about this game as I wasn't a fan of Bioshock, but this video looks very interesting. I'm more optimistic that this could be a lot of fun.

Dr_Awkward wrote:

A fairly lengthy video of gameplay with commentary. I'm not sure if it's new. Pretty broad stuff and I haven't been keeping up with the discussion here so I'll go ahead and say there is some spoilage just to be safe.
Great looking stuff.

While the whole prototype vs prototype thing still isn't hooking me, the gameplay does look pretty fun.

Has anyone visited Something in the Sea recently? It expanded significantly and is very interesting.

adam.greenbrier wrote:

Has anyone visited Something in the Sea recently? It expanded significantly and is very interesting.

Heh, I thought the original had a lot of content to read through. I'm a little tired of scanning over little scraps of paper. Looks like they're running away with the Atlas Shrugged/Ayn Rand theme though.

There's also a nice round-up of BioShock 2 information here if you, like me, haven't been keeping up with things. Highlights include moral choices, the ability to actually defeat the Big Sister, and super-powered Apex splicers. Also, Vitachambers are back, but if you use one while fighting a Big Daddy it will be healed.

Following the discussion at Unfiction, they've found all kinds of exciting things on Something in the Sea. Up to and including having clues mailed to them.

There was an article about BioShock 2 on Gamasutra recently, an interview with one of their somethingerotherdirectors. I'm not linking it because it doesn't have any new information. Just a lot of buzz words like "paradigm" (really) and "accessible."

*sigh*

I don't have a problem with a game being "accessible," but I can't help but feel like development is gimped if you actively develop it to be "accessible" instead of just "a game."

I'm pretty sure I've reached over-saturation mode with the game, in terms of hype and game play news. One might think that'd mean I'd stop reading this page. One, clearly, would be wrong.

They've brought in another studio to work on the game....

So that's four different studios working on Bioshock 2:

"BioShock 2 is a world class project led out of 2K Marin that features involvement from a variety of premiere studios from around the world," commented Alyssa Finley, producer for 2K Marin. "In the past we’ve been working closely with 2K Australia for our tech needs and Digital Extremes for our robust multiplayer experience.

"Today I’m proud to say that we’ve added another important developer to the mix. Under the direction and leadership of 2K Marin, Arkane is assisting in the creation of levels that embody the aesthetic and gameplay ideals that make BioShock such a unique and exciting experience."

What do people think? I'm always wary of titles that include a lot of people under different studios.... i always feel like it tends to "dilute" the game a bit.

Also, does this smack of, "Oh sh*t! We need to get this game finished and we're way behind schedule for release this year!", or is it just me?

Duoae wrote:

What do people think? I'm always wary of titles that include a lot of people under different studios.... i always feel like it tends to "dilute" the game a bit.

Also, does this smack of, "Oh sh*t! We need to get this game finished and we're way behind schedule for release this year!", or is it just me?

It's the same principle as having lots of writers on a film. You end up with something that might have good moments but lacks an over all feeling of cohesion/character/focus. The game has fallen off the bottom of my 'must buy' list at the moment.

Or it provides a much needed outside view of the game to avoid it ending up looking exactly just like the first... you know some different ideas on how the levels look/feel.

edit

The irony is that some of the games we consider "timeless classics" had people/studios brought in at last minute.. halfway through.. etc.. the difference is we didn't have the internet and the constant information flow throughout the games development.

Games just showed up... at best they had some "preview" in a magazine.

Duoae wrote:

Also, does this smack of, "Oh sh*t! We need to get this game finished and we're way behind schedule for release this year!", or is it just me?

It kinda does, it seems weird to bring in another studio for a game supposed to come out in about four months. Although it also may just be working on general art assets or other stuff if it's this late in the game too. It might just show how much faith 2K has in how the project is coming along to decide to offer more resources instead of just telling them to start cutting features.

Anyways, while I'm still cynical, I find myself hoping this game is good. Now that Singularity is being delayed until spring, it's surprisingly becoming slim pickings this holiday season for shooter fans who aren't into Modern Warfare or Halo, since 2007 taught publishers to avoid competing with those two. I wouldn't be shocked if stuff like Dark Void gets delayed as well for that very reason.

TheGameguru wrote:

Or it provides a much needed outside view of the game to avoid it ending up looking exactly just like the first... you know some different ideas on how the levels look/feel.

Arkane is assisting in the creation of levels that embody the aesthetic and gameplay ideals that make BioShock such a unique and exciting experience."

It sounds like they're going for the aesthetic of the first game not trying to bring in new ideas for it's look or feel. I'm not sure how i feel about the whole 'focus group' idea.... that would easily be accomplished without bringing in another studio to help complete the game, so i don't buy that.

[edit]

The irony is that some of the games we consider "timeless classics" had people/studios brought in at last minute.. halfway through.. etc.. the difference is we didn't have the internet and the constant information flow throughout the games development.

Games just showed up... at best they had some "preview" in a magazine.

'Tis true. I wonder which way this'll swing.