Questions you want answered.

PaladinTom wrote:
pandasuit wrote:

Why do some games, such as Chess or Rugby, stay relevant for a long time and will any video games ever do so?

Tetris will.

Great example. In my head I was mostly thinking about purely competitive games and in particular eSports but your example is pretty good as it is both solitaire and competitive.

The question is why?

One thing that occurs to me is that long lived games must have outlived their creators and their creators control. Can Tetris do so? Also they are games that do not have a logical ending (like a campaign or story). They essentially go as long as you want to and are designed around the idea of replay. They also tend to be games where the goal is to improve yourself not your character.

My particular love is Rocket League and while I've only been playing it for around 4 years (a relatively short life as games go despite it being long for a video game) I have no intention of stopping until I am physically incapable of playing but will that game last much longer? Could it? How could it?

One thing about Pokemon and Tetris is that it is not the original game (with refinement) that is surviving. It is new versions of the game with changes. Is that necessary? Chess hasn't changed significantly in, what, hundreds of years? They aren't adding new pieces and rules. The implementation does get refinement over time. Pieces are made from better materials or more convenient forms (digital).

I think one of the biggest factors is player base. Tetris and chess survive on the backs of the people who keep playing them.

The other factor on esports is maintenance cost. Chess requires only a one-time production cost and one-time purchase cost to play, no ongoing servers that require ongoing capital and perpetual sales.

Rocket League will be around so long as the players are there and there enough money flow to cover the server costs and upkeep work. But how long that actually translates to, who knows.

Many, if not all, of the music streaming services have pseudo social media functionality. Friends list, follow, etc. Would there be enough interest amongst Goodjers to warrant a dedicated thread for making those connections? I’m mostly thinking of sharing personally curated playlist and such.

pandasuit wrote:

Chess hasn't changed significantly in, what, hundreds of years? They aren't adding new pieces and rules.

Not strictly true. There are both variants of chess, and over the years rules and pieces have changed (in some cases quite a lot). Not so much in the past two or three hundred years, granted, but that's still recent compared to the game's history.

The mode of play has also changed or extended to online play which helps keep any game alive.

RawkGWJ wrote:

Many, if not all, of the music streaming services have pseudo social media functionality. Friends list, follow, etc. Would there be enough interest amongst Goodjers to warrant a dedicated thread for making those connections? I’m mostly thinking of sharing personally curated playlist and such.

I'd be in. I’m always looking for new ways to discover new and interesting music.

What video games are old but still being played? NetHack is a variation of Rogue, but I'd say it's up there. It's still very much alive.

Dakuna wrote:

What video games are old but still being played? NetHack is a variation of Rogue, but I'd say it's up there. It's still very much alive.

There are a few MUDs still being played today that are around 25 years old - e.g. BatMUD, but from what I've heard, most are on life-support at this point.

Clumber wrote:
Dakuna wrote:

What video games are old but still being played? NetHack is a variation of Rogue, but I'd say it's up there. It's still very much alive.

There are a few MUDs still being played today that are around 25 years old - e.g. BatMUD, but from what I've heard, most are on life-support at this point.

haha muds.. yeah I used to play a few. KoBraMUD and Ancient Anguish, mainly.

Antichulius wrote:

I think one of the biggest factors is player base. Tetris and chess survive on the backs of the people who keep playing them.

For sure, but why? What makes people keep playing these games and move on from others? That’s really the core question I wish I understood the answer to. There is something about those games that is timeless and constantly appeals to new people.

I'm kind of surprised, and disappointed, no one here has heard of Extreme Amazing Super-Chess.

pandasuit wrote:

Why do some games, such as Chess or Rugby, stay relevant for a long time and will any video games ever do so?

Orders of magnitude more games of Go are played online than on physical boards.

Does that count?

There’s something about Tetris that just clicks with human beings. It’s abstract enough so that it doesn’t alienate anybody. You can teach it in 10 seconds. It’s uses a pattern recognition system that is practically innate to the human mind. When primitive hominids began building stone huts and walls, they were using the same mental faculties that Tetris asks us to use. To play and enjoy Tetris is to be human.

I feel like the same is true for soccer/football and all of it’s variations. The first time a hominid accidentally kicked a pine cone, the game of soccer was invented. “Look. Using your hands is too easy. You can only use your feet. Ok, those two assholes who keep using their hands have to stand over there. No. One on that side and one on the other side.” The rules write themselves.

Same with rugby/American football. Two hominids start throwing a pine cone back and forth. It’s fun. A third guy wants to play and it turns into a game of keep-away. The third guy takes the pine cone and it turns into a game of tackle him and take it back. More dudes join in and in less than an hour of playing with a pine cone the male hominids have basically created rugby.

FPS. Whatever flavor you prefer. We tend to think of FPSs as separate games, but in the context of classics like Chess, they're less of a genre and more just the same game with various versions. Chess itself has variations and we've gotten all kinds of "graphical upgrades" as we've become better at materials sciences.

LarryC wrote:

FPS. Whatever flavor you prefer. We tend to think of FPSs as separate games, but in the context of classics like Chess, they're less of a genre and more just the same game with various versions. Chess itself has variations and we've gotten all kinds of "graphical upgrades" as we've become better at materials sciences.

It’s a valid point although I might separate them into groups because arena shooters and battle royale shooters and games like borderlands might be more different than hockey is to ringette is to lacrosse.

It’s kinda encouraging to think that if Rocket League doesn’t survive as long as the concept of physics based sports games has lasting appeal someone will make new ones. Rocket League is actually a spiritual sequel to a very similar earlier game called SARPBC (by the same company) and I’ve always felt that borrowed a lot of it’s best parts from the much older game Rocket Jockey.

This reminded me of the game Speedball.. apparently it was remade in 2013!

Am I missing something with Alan Wake? I keep seeing game devs talk about it being in their all-time top X, but I'm maybe an hour in (thanks epic game store!) and so far it's been pretty much a walking simulator. Does something get drastically amazing later?

fenomas wrote:

Am I missing something with Alan Wake? I keep seeing game devs talk about it being in their all-time top X, but I'm maybe an hour in (thanks epic game store!) and so far it's been pretty much a walking simulator. Does something get drastically amazing later?

Definitely more intense but still lots of slower paced stuff too

Follow up question - why do so many games start with a tutorial level that teaches you controls and mechanics, and then immediately follow that with a long period of gameplay where those controls are disabled and those mechanics aren't present?

Ever since I became aware of this I keep seeing it, practically every game with a tutorial level does it, though Alan Wake does it bad, which brought it to mind. The other day I tried an EGS game that did it multiple times with multiple different mechanics! (I think it was "Moonlighter"). Yarrggh, it drives me nuts.

Keep in mind Alan Wake is almost 10 years old at this point. What was new and groundbreaking then could be routine and even obsolete now.

I know it's old. I'm asking if there's something new or groundbreaking about it - then or now, either way.

I seem to be in the minority, but I really didn't like Alan Wake at all and quit halfway through. I was all set for a scary survival horror game, but instead I got a poor third person shooter with a "run to the next safe point" mechanic.

PaladinTom wrote:

I seem to be in the minority, but I really didn't like Alan Wake at all and quit halfway through. I was all set for a scary survival horror game, but instead I got a poor third person shooter with a "run to the next safe point" mechanic.

Oh good, I though it was just me. Everyone else seemed to love it, and I just couldn't get into it.

deftly wrote:
PaladinTom wrote:

I seem to be in the minority, but I really didn't like Alan Wake at all and quit halfway through. I was all set for a scary survival horror game, but instead I got a poor third person shooter with a "run to the next safe point" mechanic.

Oh good, I though it was just me. Everyone else seemed to love it, and I just couldn't get into it.

Y'all aren't alone. I thought I was missing something.

Edit: Request Satisfied.

Apparently the first thing you need to do is get a VPN. If you get one of the more robust VPN services, you can use their “dashboard” to *redacted* *redacted* *redacted*. I’ve been considering doing it for the past few years. Let me know how it goes if you move forward with it. I’d love to hear about your experience.

FYI posting requests for pirate information is against the Code of Conduct.

LeapingGnome wrote:

FYI posting requests for pirate information is against the Code of Conduct.

I dunno. This feels like mini-moderation and that's against the CoC.

That's my bad. I thought you just couldn't openly talk/link it. That's why I asked for a DM.

Anyhow, I can edit the post away now.

Oh snap! Don't get me wrong, I am sympathetic. I've been a Usenet subscriber for years... (Usenet > torrents).

What's this Usenet? I Googled it and found what they call a logical map. Seems very illogical.

Spoiler:

UUCP/Usenet Logical Map — June 1, 1981 / mods by S. McGeady November 19, 1981

(ucbvax)
+=+===================================+==+
| | | |
| | wivax | |
| | | | |
| | microsoft| uiucdcs | |
| | genradbo | | | | | | (Tektronix)
| | | | | | | purdue | |
| decvax+===+=+====+=+=+ | | | |
| | | | | | | pur-phy | | tekmdp
| | | | | | | | | | |
[email protected]@@@@@cca | | | | | | | | |
| | | | +=pur-ee=+=+=====+===+ | |
| csin | | | | | |
| | +==o===+===================+==+========+=======+====teklabs=+
| | | |
| | | pdp phs grumpy wolfvax |
| | | | | | | |
| | cincy unc=+===+======+========+ |
| | | bio | |
| | | (Misc) | | (Misc) |
| | | sii reed | dukgeri duke34 utzoo |
| | | | | | | | | |
| +====+=+=+==+====++======+==++===duke=+===+=======+==+=========+ |
| | | | | | | | | | u1100s
| bmd70 ucf-cs ucf | andiron | | | | |
| | | | | | |
| red | | | | | pyuxh
| | | | zeppo | | | |
| psupdp---psuvax | | | | | | |
| | | | alice | whuxlb | utah-cs | | houxf
| allegra | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | +--chico---+
| +===+=mhtsa====research | /=+=======harpo=+==+ | |
| | | | | | / | | |
| hocsr | | +=+=============+=/ cbosg---+ | |
| ucbopt | | | | | esquire |
| : | | | cbosgd | |
| : | | | | |
| ucbcory | | eagle==+=====+=====+=====+=====+ | |
| : | | | | | | | | | +-uwvax--+
| : | | | mhuxa mhuxh mhuxj mhuxm mhuxv | |
| : | | | | |
| : | | | +----------------------------o--+
| : | | | | |
| ucbcad | | | ihpss mh135a |
| : | | | | | |
| : \--o--o------ihnss----vax135----cornell |
| : | | | | |
+=+==ucbvax==========+===+==+=+======+=======+=+========+=========+
(UCB) : | | | | (Silicon Valley)
ucbarpa cmevax | | menlo70--hao
: | | | |
ucbonyx | | | sri-unix
| ucsfcgl |
| | |
Legend: | | sytek====+========+
------- | | | |
- | / \ + = Uucp sdcsvax=+=======+=+======+ intelqa zehntel
= "Bus" | | |
o jumps sdcarl phonlab sdcattb
: Berknet
@ Arpanet