WOW: Min Gear to Tank Heroics

What is the min folks have been successful with for tanking heroics? I have avoided it so far but not many seem to want to run normal 80 instances. My DK Endest on BH is a lot of fun but I would like to help out with tanking sometimes since it seems that is still an area that is short. Not as short as healing but that is not something I can fix until I get back to my old Druid.

I am sitting at 491 def, 165 Res, 22k HP, and 22k armor in frost pres. Is that good enough? Without running dungeons I am having to use a lot of PvP gear to make up for lacking real tank gear.

Thanks for any input

Heroics in Northrend? You need 535 defense. For raids, you need 540. Otherwise you are crittable.

Until you are uncrittable, nothing else matters.

490 was uncrittable in Outland, so you can tank Outland raids(Kara, etc.), but not Northrend, especially not as a DK.

The resilience helps, or at least it used to. Dunno the conversion.

Buy crafted blues and rep pieces, tons of Def. Plus new runeforging today, right?

I know it'll take some digging, but in the WotLK catch all thread Krindle posted a gear guide.

As far as health/stamina, I imagine you should be okay. Started with my warrior around 22k health and 20.5k armor. Don't know much about DK tanking myself, but it seems reasonable that your higher parry along with the extra 1.5k armor should more than make up for the lack of blocking.

Based on my quick math using the calculators over at tankingtips.com, seems like you should have 540 equivalent given your level of resilience. 165 resilience is about 2% crit reduction, and 90 extra defense (not rating) should give you 3.6% crit reduction. Right on the borderline for raids, but should be fine for heroics.

resilience does not provide crit reduction in PvE scenarios anymore.

(to my knowledge).

I think it ended up being left alone, Seth -- I think it still works. They just adjusted beartanking, at least, to be critproof without needing resilience OR defense.

It was pretty common for druids to use PVP gear and resilience when tanking, because it was high armor with high agility. The resilience made us critproof, so we used the gem slots for agility and stamina.

So, as far as I could determine after the patch, resilience still works, but bears don't need it anymore.

Ahh. Cool. I know back in Wrath Beta they were rumbling about making resilience ineffective inside instances. Seemed like a dumb way to fix things.

Good to hear it never made it in. =)

Yeah, I remember in the BETA for WotLK a bunch of people would gear for raids by still using the resilince substitution. A score of 535 Defense is needed to be uncritable to a level 82 mob, and I'm not sure either about the resilience conversion, but what you are looking for is to have a "reduces the chance to be critically hit by 5.4%" for heroics (5.6% for raids).

Mouse over the Defense score you have to get this number, and mouse over resilience to get the other. Add the two together and hope it's over that 5.4%.

Don't forget the power of enchants either. You can get a +22 Def to chest which helps out a bit, and +16 Def to cloak too. There are also some nice rep rewards which can really boost your Defense a high amount until you reach that benchmark. Once there, you can start accumulating badges and get the new DK Sigil that adds 25 Def rating as well.

Other than that, like others have mentioned, nothing else matters. However, after that for raids, you need to have a minimum health and solid threat generation, not to mention avoidance.

Cool, thanks for all the info folks. So 5.4% crit reduction is the key. I am at 5.65% now between my Def and Resil so I am all set. I should even be able to drop a piece of PvP gear perhaps.

Alright hopefully I will actually get to play for a couple hours straight to use it.

One thing I can't just get past for DK's (and druids for that matter) is the complete lack of block value. I know you guys get along just fine without it but I've had many a raid boss fight go so much easier with a healthy dose of yummy, yummy block value.

Heroics at the end of BC were so much fun for me on Titan. Having mobs in the Hellfire instances hit me for literally 50 damage while my pocket healer Bort was either smiting or AFK brings a smile to my face to this day.

Reaper81 wrote:

One thing I can't just get past for DK's (and druids for that matter) is the complete lack of block value. I know you guys get along just fine without it but I've had many a raid boss fight go so much easier with a healthy dose of yummy, yummy block value.

Heroics at the end of BC were so much fun for me on Titan. Having mobs in the Hellfire instances hit me for literally 50 damage while my pocket healer Bort was either smiting or AFK brings a smile to my face to this day.

We're supposed to make up for it in dodge/parry. While cool in of itself it's not fun on healers hearts

Reaper81 wrote:

One thing I can't just get past for DK's (and druids for that matter) is the complete lack of block value. I know you guys get along just fine without it but I've had many a raid boss fight go so much easier with a healthy dose of yummy, yummy block value.

Heroics at the end of BC were so much fun for me on Titan. Having mobs in the Hellfire instances hit me for literally 50 damage while my pocket healer Bort was either smiting or AFK brings a smile to my face to this day.

I hear some people actually believe BV is useless. I can't comprehend how that's possible though, seeing as with a Pally it's taken off of EVERY hit you take. Roughly 50% off all attacks are blocked (due to 50% pure avoidance), and reducing all of those by 1500 damage AFTER it goes through "the wringer" is pretty impressive.

"The Wringer"
Attack start by hitting you for 20,000
Less Armor Absorption (60% at 23k), Reduced by RF (6%), Reduced by BoSanc (3%), Reduced by BV:

20,000 - Arm (12,000) = 8,000
8,000 - RF (480) = 7,520
7,520 - BoS (226) = 7,294
7,294 - 1,500 = 5,794

Reversely, an attack has to do over 4,100 damage to cause any damage at all. That's pretty damn awesome!
Not to mention all that extra threat from SoR or SS

Well, pre-WoTLK, druids had so much armor that it didn't matter very much. You got hit more, but I think the cap was a 75% reduction. So, as long as the boss was physical, after the initial 50% avoidance from dodge+miss, the very short Druid wringer, assuming a very well-geared druid, was:

20K damage * 0.25 = 5000 damage, less than the 5800 that Krindle would take.

But, bears take that same percentage from all attacks, big or small, where shield guys can just shrug off the little hits. And if it was magic damage, we ate the whole thing.

Overall, druids were inferior tanks in every way but two: taking big hits from a physical boss, and single-target threat generation. They also had very good snap aggro generation without needing a full rage bar to start, so they were pretty good at an emergency pickup of a loose mob.

I have no idea what it's like now. From the item armor nerfs listed in the patch notes, I suspect shields are more needed than they were.

Speaking from a healers point of view Sapman. Healing a DK that is not crit immune is tough. They get such spikey damage anyhow, but that big crit is a son of a b*tch. It is wierd healing a DK as they will go several seconds without getting hit, then 3 big hits in a row. Creates some interesting situations at times, especially for a healer that is on par with the tank in gear and can't just heal through the big damage spikes. I've gotten to the point where my heals would keep a lower geared tank up through some tough situations, but I couldn't have done that at the start of heroics.

Malor wrote:

I have no idea what it's like now. From the item armor nerfs listed in the patch notes, I suspect shields are more needed than they were.

You should come back and find out. I miss the big fuzzy.

Malor wrote:

I have no idea what it's like now. From the item armor nerfs listed in the patch notes, I suspect shields are more needed than they were.

The awesome part (don't tell blizzard) is that even with defender's code, my armor INCREASED with the "nerf." It increased so much I don't even have to wear defender's code or the one or two leftover badge items (kara ring, cloak of placation) -- meaning my dodge and stamina increased substantially.

What's the actual defense rating value for uncrittable? 689?

689 is the number I use. I think that technically may take you to 541, but I prefer to have a bit of a cushion just in case the math is off.

Don't forget if you're not quite geared, there's an Elixer of Mighty Defense that'll boost your def by +45.

So drinking one of those elixers would make the OP 536 def, 1 more than needed to be uncrittable in heroics.

Edit: Nevermind, that's +45 defense rating, so I don't know what that translates into in actual defense.

Around 9ish. It's slightly less than 5 defense rating to 1 defense at 80.