
So, allow me to get this straight. For those of you who have spent fat loot on previous DLC, there will be reissues that you'll have to pay again for along with an extra buck for pro guitar. For me, not so bad since I didn't spend a lot on previous DLC. And I want the back catalog to be upgraded. Just seems like a truly, colossally rotten deal for those (Ranger Rick) who have spent a lot on DLC.
Bonus_Eruptus wrote:I actually want all of those. Is the DLC still compatible with RB2 now that 3's out?
Yeah.
(But I'm quadruple checking right now.)
Damn. Looks like I'm buying more SpaceBucks.
Ignore. I have to leave and can't confirm.
garion333 wrote:Bonus_Eruptus wrote:I actually want all of those. Is the DLC still compatible with RB2 now that 3's out?
Yeah.
(But I'm quadruple checking right now.)
Damn. Looks like I'm buying more SpaceBucks.
See my amended post.
So, allow me to get this straight. For those of you who have spent fat loot on previous DLC, there will be reissues that you'll have to pay again for along with an extra buck for pro guitar. For me, not so bad since I didn't spend a lot on previous DLC. And I want the back catalog to be upgraded. Just seems like a truly, colossally rotten deal for those (Ranger Rick) who have spent a lot on DLC.
Not to mention a big 'f*ck you' to a loyal fanbase.
I don't mind paying an extra buck for Pro guitar charts - that's perfectly reasonable. I *do* mind having to re-buy the track, then pay an extra buck on top to get the pro charts. I'm also pissed at having to re-buy it to get keys support.
In an ideal world, they'd simply update the existing download with keys support, so I can RE-download songs I've already bought at no extra cost, and they'll support keys.
I have to agree that this is not a great precedent Harmonix is setting. I've seen it mentioned that this might be a unique case, since all three tracks that are being duplicated originally come from discs, and so are in our libraries as portions of much larger download packs, and that this complicates trying to just update the songs in place.
On the other hand, it really seems incumbent upon them to clarify what's going to happen with updated legacy tracks going forward. At the very least, they've created a strong disincentive to purchasing any back-catalogue DLC until they do so.
Between this, and under-explaining All Instruments Mode, and taking so long to figure out release details on the Pro Guitar hardware, it feels like Harmonix has been dropping the ball on messaging lately.
Yeah it really sucked when I owned 200+ cassette's in the 80's and then everything moved to CD and the record companies didn't mail me CD's to replace my collection for free or offer me a cheap upgrade path. I don't want to be the A-hole but man they have a right to move on at some point, they gave us 2000 or so songs for RB1/2 that still work with RB1/2. There is a complete precedent for having to purchase media again and again in both the music and movie medium. I'd like to think that the cost to them to go back and update the older tracks just wasn't worth the expense if they didn't resell the track, maybe it's a licensing issue that forced them to resell it and not just update for a reduced price I don't know. Myself yes I'll probably wait to purchase songs I already own over those I hadn't bought in the first place or are new, perhaps if enough people do this Harmonix would offer those re-released tracks at a lower price or they might just give up on updating the older offerings if not enough people decide to buy them a second time.
It sucks yes but they have a right to make some money and I'm not going to fault them just because they had to draw a line somewhere and move on.
Yeah it really sucked when I owned 200+ cassette's in the 80's and then everything moved to CD and the record companies didn't mail me CD's to replace my collection for free or offer me a cheap upgrade path. I don't want to be the A-hole but man they have a right to move on at some point, they gave us 2000 or so songs for RB1/2 that still work with RB1/2. There is a complete precedent for having to purchase media again and again in both the music and movie medium. I'd like to think that the cost to them to go back and update the older tracks just wasn't worth the expense if they didn't resell the track, maybe it's a licensing issue that forced them to resell it and not just update for a reduced price I don't know. Myself yes I'll probably wait to purchase songs I already own over those I hadn't bought in the first place or are new, perhaps if enough people do this Harmonix would offer those re-released tracks at a lower price or they might just give up on updating the older offerings if not enough people decide to buy them a second time.
It sucks yes but they have a right to make some money and I'm not going to fault them just because they had to draw a line somewhere and move on.
I'm not saying they don't have a right to do it, I'm just saying that it's a bit of a boot to the balls of their loyal customers who've been assured time and again that "Rock Band is a platform".
There's also a question of which is the smarter business move. As it stands, I imagine that very few people who already own DLC songs are going to re-buy them - so what do they stand to lose by offering a free upgrade path for those people?
Also, if they were to offer free DLC upgrades, would that make people more or less likely to purchase more DLC down the road? My guess is more. More songs to play means more playing of Rock Band, which keeps it in my rotation, keeps the enthusiasm for it up, which leads to more DLC sales.
Oh man, so many of my favorite songs in there. I am so in for the complete pack, and placing myself on the very slippery slope that is Rock Band DLC.
EDIT: I just want to chime in on the upgrades vs. re-paying issue. This isn't entirely Harmonix's choice, the music labels may be forcing their hand. As was pointed out already, the music industry has gotten used to people paying again and again for the same content, so I would not be at all surprised if they see this as "business as usual". It may change if enough people refuse to pay again for songs they already have on disc, but honestly I don't see that happening.
I just feel that people expect too much now. Platforms end and evolve into new ones, the media used in many of these platforms are resold. RB1/2 was a platform that they are no longer supporting, they've moved on to a new platform called RB3 that has keys and pro charts. We should be happy they made RB3 include backwards compatibility for the tracks we own and included pro-drums for those tracks that from what I heard have been charted from day 1 as pro-drums. This is no different than the move from the N64 to the gamecube or xbox to 360 or VHS to DVD. The labor involved in adding keys and pro content to the older songs is probably just as time consuming as it was to create it the first time. In my opinion they have already given the loyal RB consumers a break by making RB3 backwards compatible and including the drums asking for keys and pro-guitar now is just being greedy. To me it's no different than saying I own RB2 drums I should get the cymbals now for less money than someone who didn't own the RB2 drums. Harmonix has already done more than they had to do and more than many others have done I guess to turn around and say give me even more is a sign of the times.
Harmonix has already done more than they had to do and more than many others have done I guess to turn around and say give me even more is a sign of the times.
Exactly the point. They've been good to their customers, time and again, so it's surprising when they stop doing that.
I'm not saying there's some moral imperative to give free upgrades on re-release songs, I'm saying that it would be a smart business move for them to do so.
The folk who have hundreds of DLC tracks are the evangelists, the ones who throw Rock Band parties, who spread the word about the game. It serves Harmonix's interests to keep those people sweet, and more importantly to keep them playing, keep them talking about it.
And again, it's not like they're going to lose a lot of money by doing so. My guess is that most people won't rebuy digital content. Maybe I'm wrong.
Huh. That seems weird, when I was there all RB2 DLC is straight up compatible with RB3. As far as I know that's the case, and you don't have to re-buy tracks, just pro upgrades. Lemme ask some people and get back to you, but I'm 99% sure you do not have to re-buy anything.
My argument is this:
we paid $2 for Song X. Song X has drums x 4, guitar x4, vocals x4, bass x4 (tracks)
Song X 2.0 comes out, and all of the above is completed work, and contains exactly the same as above, plus keyboards and pro guitar. So I'd think paying $1 ... IF you already own Song X 1.0 would be fair. I'm not asking for anything for free, just not wanting to pay twice for the stuff in my first paragraph.
I don't think the labor for 2.0 is equal to 1.0, if it was then new 2.0 songs should be $4, not $2, but they are all still $2. Hell they're not even $3.
As was pointed out, this is most likely a RIAA thing. HMX also charged full price for going from Rush covers to real Rush songs even if you bought the covers already.
I am pretty sure those new versions are just for people who do not have Rock Band 1, Rock Band 2 and/or LEGO Rock Band already, since those three songs are already on those discs. If we are lucky, the Pro mode will attach to the on-disc versions, but for people who want those three songs without the older games, they can now get them. At least, that is my hope.
It's not specified in the announcement, so I have to ask - do the songs that are noted as being RB3 version contain keyboard tracks? I assume they would (otherwise why specify RB3 version), but I've learned too many times to not assume.
Do the songs that are noted as being RB3 version contain keyboard tracks?
If nothing else, you can see that when you go to buy them (if you go through the game). My guess is that those do have all of the RB3 pieces, but I would be thrilled if buying the Pro upgrade for those songs would also include Harmonies, Keys and the Pro Guitars.
Okay I figured it out based on some clarification on the RB forums.
The (RB3 Version) tracks are re-releases with Harmonies and Keyboards added (if the original song has Harmonies. You can see what parts any song has in its entry in the Music Store).
If you have the RB2 versions of these songs, you can still play them in RB3 without Harmonies or Keys. If you want Harmonies and Keys, then you have to buy the the new track. If you want Pro Guitar and Pro Bass, they won't work with the RB2 version.
RB2 DLC is forwards compatible. RB3 DLC is not backwards compatible.
To do keys charting, you have to re-license the masters to get those stems in order to chart them, so that's where the (RB3 Version) re-buy is coming from.
Allow me to reiterate my joy that I didn't splurge on a bunch of pre-RB3 DLC. I imagine I'll be forced to double-dip in RB4 when they produce pan flute and bagpipe charts... and I've heard rumbling's that bagpipes will be an extra buck given the complexity.
There's also the issue that for a number of keys-heavy songs, the keys part is charted to the guitar for at least a portion of the song. Take a look at Queen's Somebody to Love or Boston's Smokin' for examples. In those cases, you can't just use the same guitar chart, because the guitar would be doubling the keys. You also can't necessarily just swap the charts because that introduces all kinds of problems with online play and leaderboards (same song with two charts = problems).
Hmm... that makes sense. I'm not outraged or anything, but I will be taking a careful look at the keyboard tracks before I decide to drop another $2 on a song I've already bought. For a $1 upgrade to keys and harmonies and another $1 for pro guitar I wouldn't have batted an eye.
Fortunately a friend of mine handed me cash for the Queen pack, so I won't feel so bad about upgrading that one.
Will I have to go in and manually delete the RB2 version of an updated song if I want to free up the disk space? I'm still on the original size HD and the Rock Band series alone has eaten up most of the available space...
Wow, so the probably pushing $300 worth of DLC I have won't get pro guitar? I'm honestly going to take pause with future DLC. I want the guitar regardless just to use as a MIDI controller but this leaves a real sour taste in my mouth. I was under the impression that I'd be able to upgrade my existing purchases for $1.
Being a new drummer, I have to say, Won't Get Fooled Again is f'ing awesome on pro drums! I can only handle medium, but I 4-starred it on a sight read, and can't wait to practice it and improve.
I'm able to play most of the lowest tier songs on pro-hard, though there are few that under-tiered I think, like Gimme Three Steps, which has some crazy syncopation going on in parts. Same with Mississippi Queen.
For your drummers, what are your favorites to play?
I'm a bit surprised they hadn't tried finalizing the binary format early and been tracking stuff with harmonies for the last 6 months of releases, though. Seemed like some of the more recent DLC (I'm looking at you, Queen!) was out by the time they could have done it with harmonies and keys initially.
But I guess if RB3 DLC doesn't work in the older releases, then it wouldn't have ever worked out that way. Oh well.
It's possible that they won't have to pay to re-license the more recent stuff. Once they knew what RB3 would entail they could have been building both versions at once. Now whether they'll pass the savings along to us is anybody's guess. Based on past experience I bet Harmonix wants to, but Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo, EA, and/or MTV might want to keep the pricing consistent. Or maybe they just want to establish that lots of tracks will cost $2 to update, so that way when they do release free upgrades it's seen as a cool bonus treat instead of as something players are entitled to...
Being a new drummer, I have to say, Won't Get Fooled Again is f'ing awesome on pro drums! I can only handle medium, but I 4-starred it on a sight read, and can't wait to practice it and improve.
I'm able to play most of the lowest tier songs on pro-hard, though there are few that under-tiered I think, like Gimme Three Steps, which has some crazy syncopation going on in parts. Same with Mississippi Queen.
For your drummers, what are your favorites to play?
Battery by Metallica. It's brutal, in an awesome way. There's a whole load of Metallica songs that are great to drum to. I picked up GH: Metallica on the cheap a while back, mainly for solo play. Also excellent for insane noodly guitar too.
Being a new drummer, I have to say, Won't Get Fooled Again is f'ing awesome on pro drums! I can only handle medium, but I 4-starred it on a sight read, and can't wait to practice it and improve.
I'm able to play most of the lowest tier songs on pro-hard, though there are few that under-tiered I think, like Gimme Three Steps, which has some crazy syncopation going on in parts. Same with Mississippi Queen.
For your drummers, what are your favorites to play?
I was really happy with Pro Drums being sort of the exception to the rule when it comes to compatibility. The framework for including it was already mostly there, so if you're playing in RB3, any song that has a Drums part also has a Pro Drums part.
There's also the issue that for a number of keys-heavy songs, the keys part is charted to the guitar for at least a portion of the song. Take a look at Queen's Somebody to Love or Boston's Smokin' for examples. In those cases, you can't just use the same guitar chart, because the guitar would be doubling the keys. You also can't necessarily just swap the charts because that introduces all kinds of problems with online play and leaderboards (same song with two charts = problems).
'Sup leaderboards buddy!
How YOU doin'?
I was really happy with Pro Drums being sort of the exception to the rule when it comes to compatibility. The framework for including it was already mostly there, so if you're playing in RB3, any song that has a Drums part also has a Pro Drums part.
Amen to that. I'm mostly only interested in drums now anyway (until the midi adapter ships for keyboards), so having 350+ songs all ready for pro drums is pretty sweet.
How YOU doin'? ;)
Chattin in the DLC thread, trying to find work. Going 'Hmm does this break my NDA?' a lot.
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