So about Steam and selling your games...

I think I'll stop using Steam to buy games, mainly because I can't sell them or give them away after I'm done with them.

Like Fallout 3... finished it and I don't think I'll ever play it again anytime soon, so if I wanted to give it to a friend, I can't...

Is it a dumb idea that you should be able to sell the games you bought on steam? Transfer the license to another email address? Is it really never going to happen?

So yeah, I love Steam but I think that's one big reason I'm not going to buy more games from there.

That is definitely understandable. And while it would be nice to have some sort of "trading" support from Steam, I doubt we will see that any time soon.

Whoever figures that out first wins digital distribution. I put it into pretty flowery words here: http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/4...

A slightly unrelated question; if I buy Left 4 Dead on a Disc, do I have to create a new steam account or can I just add it to my steam account?

d3p0 wrote:

A slightly unrelated question; if I buy Left 4 Dead on a Disc, do I have to create a new steam account or can I just add it to my steam account?

It is a Valve game, so it will go into your existing Steam account.

Yay. Thanks.

Mex wrote:

I think I'll stop using Steam to buy games, mainly because I can't sell them or give them away after I'm done with them.

Like Fallout 3... finished it and I don't think I'll ever play it again anytime soon, so if I wanted to give it to a friend, I can't...

Is it a dumb idea that you should be able to sell the games you bought on steam? Transfer the license to another email address? Is it really never going to happen?

So yeah, I love Steam but I think that's one big reason I'm not going to buy more games from there.

It's not dumb if that's they way you play. I rarely get rid of games and still I'm not a huge fan of digital distribution.

I only ditch games I _REALLY_ don't like. So Steam works really well for me.

Yeah, as a hard and fast rule I don't give up PC games so it isn't a huge deal for me. I've occasionally loaned KOTOR or somesuch but that's about it, and honestly at the point the game is so old I'm willing to loan it out to a friend it's probably just as easy for them to find a torrent and pirate it. Or buy it for five bucks, whichever.

I've probably only ever sold one or two games in my life. My biggest worry w/ Steam is that Valve will one day go under, and take the library I purchased with them. Doesn't sound feasible now, but never say never...

Evo wrote:

I've probably only ever sold one or two games in my life. My biggest worry w/ Steam is that Valve will one day go under, and take the library I purchased with them. Doesn't sound feasible now, but never say never...

They have a system already where you can back up your games if you want. I did that when I re-installed windows instead of downloading it all again.

This is hardly the first system that's stopped people from selling their used PC games.

And yes, you can save your Steam games to disc, but that doesn't change that they still connect to Steam for verification. If the verification server is down, it's nothing but useless data.

Kannon wrote:

I only ditch games I _REALLY_ don't like. So Steam works really well for me.

Bingo. I will not buy games that are so-so on Steam, I play ones I know I'll have the urge to kick around a year or two later when I upgrade to my next uber-machine.

d3p0 wrote:

Whoever figures that out first wins digital distribution.

It's not a matter of whoever figures it out. The system would actually be quite easy to implement. It has to do more with the company not wanting you to be able to trade your games.

I have the same feelings about Steam that way. It is a perfect way of obtaining a game though. You don't need to go out and there are some great deals as well at times (got Prey for $5).
But the verification isn't nice when the server is down, but more often it could be that you are without internet. I am reselling Doom 3, Oblivion + extensions and Bioshock. All great games, but I am done with them. And this way, it doesn't hurt too much to invest into a game either.
Prices are ridiculous (in Holland at least) now. Double before we got the euro. So reselling is probably a huge deal to a lot of ppl. Besides that, not everything on steam is available outside the US. When I have the option to buy it on a disc, for me that is the way to go as well.

I think publishers have been intentionally stifling the PC used games market for some time, and its not just online distribution anymore.

I wouldn't purchase a PC game used because the CD key is probably already tied to someone's account. This is doubly true for a game that needs to be activated online (Spore, Farcry 2, etc) - it may not work at all.

I'm a huge supporter of digital distribution, and I really think it's the future of PC gaming, if not all gaming. I'll immediately say that I'm not a console gamer, so I don't share that particular mindset. Whereas a lot of console gamers seem to regard games the way I'd regard a renting/buying a DVD, I buy games with the idea that it's a permanent purchase. To be honest, compared to the entertainment value I'd get from an evening at the movies and a meal, I get more than my money's worth from any given game, so re-selling the game isn't a "value" factor for me. I also want to support the industry (especially the smaller, more innovative developers), so I prefer to buy new games whenever feasible.

Steam allows me to purchase my games in an convenient, environmentally-friendly way that ensures my games will be available to me on any system (within the reasonable lifetime of the game). Developers using the system are more PC-friendly due to reduced piracy, which may bring back a renaissance of more complex, thoughtful, indie PC games. I understand the arguments about reselling and DRM (the latter of which I accept only when I perceive it as reasonably implemented), but I think digital distribution is absolutely fantastic and it's without doubt my preferred method for buying games.

I'm not a big reseller of games but when I do get done with a game I will pass it around to my friends to play, though this is mostly this is with single player games.

Coldstream wrote:

I'm a huge supporter of digital distribution, and I really think it's the future of PC gaming, if not all gaming. I'll immediately say that I'm not a console gamer, so I don't share that particular mindset. Whereas a lot of console gamers seem to regard games the way I'd regard a renting/buying a DVD, I buy games with the idea that it's a permanent purchase. To be honest, compared to the entertainment value I'd get from an evening at the movies and a meal, I get more than my money's worth from any given game, so re-selling the game isn't a "value" factor for me. I also want to support the industry (especially the smaller, more innovative developers), so I prefer to buy new games whenever feasible.

Steam allows me to purchase my games in an convenient, environmentally-friendly way that ensures my games will be available to me on any system (within the reasonable lifetime of the game). Developers using the system are more PC-friendly due to reduced piracy, which may bring back a renaissance of more complex, thoughtful, indie PC games. I understand the arguments about reselling and DRM (the latter of which I accept only when I perceive it as reasonably implemented), but I think digital distribution is absolutely fantastic and it's without doubt my preferred method for buying games.

Welcome to the forums, GABE NEWELL

Mex wrote:

I think I'll stop using Steam to buy games, mainly because I can't sell them or give them away after I'm done with them.

Like Fallout 3... finished it and I don't think I'll ever play it again anytime soon, so if I wanted to give it to a friend, I can't...

Is it a dumb idea that you should be able to sell the games you bought on steam? Transfer the license to another email address? Is it really never going to happen?

So yeah, I love Steam but I think that's one big reason I'm not going to buy more games from there.

I had the exact same thought this weekend as I bought Fallout 3 and Far Cry 2. I was looking down the list of other games on Steam that I had bought and had no desire to play again. My copy of Half-Life 2 has a '1 extra copy' link (thanks to orange box) I can use to gift it to someone else. I know people who would like to play these games I have and they already have a system in place to transfer the license. It will just be a matter of whether or not they want to do it.

Which they probably don't

polypusher wrote:
Mex wrote:

I think I'll stop using Steam to buy games, mainly because I can't sell them or give them away after I'm done with them.

Like Fallout 3... finished it and I don't think I'll ever play it again anytime soon, so if I wanted to give it to a friend, I can't...

Is it a dumb idea that you should be able to sell the games you bought on steam? Transfer the license to another email address? Is it really never going to happen?

So yeah, I love Steam but I think that's one big reason I'm not going to buy more games from there.

I had the exact same thought this weekend as I bought Fallout 3 and Far Cry 2. I was looking down the list of other games on Steam that I had bought and had no desire to play again. My copy of Half-Life 2 has a '1 extra copy' link (thanks to orange box) I can use to gift it to someone else. I know people who would like to play these games I have and they already have a system in place to transfer the license. It will just be a matter of whether or not they want to do it.

Which they probably don't

It would be very very easy for them to implement. It would also be bad for their business. If I could sell my games simply by filling out a form it would make it super easy and convenient. So much so that I believe it would cut into sales of new games a fair amount. Digital distribution costs virtually nothing on a per copy basis.

Now if Valve got 50% of the sales of used games through steam (that assumes they go to the trouble to create a way to sell the game inside of steam) it might be a worthwhile business plan. However, I am not sure they'd make money. Right now if I want a copy of the Orange Box I have to buy it from valve for full price. If they allow the sale/transfer of used games that reduces their potential base for selling a new one. I guess the real question is how many people will only buy a used copy of HL2 vs how many would eventually just buy it new.

Losing the ability to sell or lend your games certainly sucks.

But I hate discs, boxes, and just generally having to have a product move through physical space to get to me. I want to be able to buy all of my games, on PCs and consoles, as digital downloads.

I love being able to load Steam on a new Windows install, and say, "go re-install all that shiznit for me". No disc-swapping, install screen OK-OK-OKing march.

Not being able to trade or sell games does hurt the wallet a little bit more when Steam is considered, but it does make me really think about a purchase first. Also, I love the fact that I can get great games so cheap at times from Steam. Audiosurf was a total impulse by at 7:20 in the morning before I left for work.. but it was $2.50. I just didn't get a coffee at the gas station that day. With an actual physical disk, it would cost at least $2.50 to ship me the media.

I too love the fact that now when I get the urge to play certain games, I can just click a button, have them upload into my PC, and patch themselves. In six months, when I want to take a crack at a bunch of mods for Fallout 3, I'm glad taht I will have the game fully updated with all the patches just by letting Steam run in the background when I'm not at home.

Having a 'used' copy of a digitally distributed game is just plain silly. How do you 'use' a digital copy? Why would it depreciate in value? Physical media degrades. You can see someone else's paws all over it. It's missing manuals. There is a feeling that you're getting sloppy seconds.

But with a digital version, it's all the same. Now, if they implemented a method whereby you can 'return' a copy of the game to them, that would be something. Perhaps have a depreciation schedule where you can get X amount of your money back if you revoke your license. And X changes as a function of time.

I wonder if there is a way to terminate your license for a game and then be given credits toward new purchases, with the publisher getting a cut of some kind. I think it would go a long way to helping digital distribution get a solid footing for big AAA titles and not just Arcadey games.

I too realized I might of made a mistake buying Fallout 3 on Steam. I will finish the game, but I doubt I will play it much in the future. It would be nice to be able to recoup some of my money back or do someone a solid and give it away. It is just so easy to just point and click. For Left 4 Dead and Team Fortress 2, I know I am going to play multiplayer for years to come, so those are good investments. If I had to do it over again I would probably get the 360 version so I could sell it when I am done.

I've pretty much been a PC only gamer my entire life so trading in games so trading in game is something I don't do, and I like going back to good games a few years after I've finished them. As for the whole game trading system, I think in 5 years there won't be much of a market for it. Game Companies don't like the idea, and as Digital Distribution takes over it will happen less and less.

Well I'd be willing to pay a transfer license fee or something, so Steam gets some money from the resale.

I look at it this way.
At this point in my life I can afford to buy a game and not sell it. I feel that in this way I hope to support the gaming industry as a whole - I know there are a lot of people getting paid out of that who shouldn't be as they are just middle men or greedy - but we live in super-capitalism. Its just the way it is.

I look at it like buying something locally which is more expensive now and then just to support my neighbors.

e989 wrote:

I look at it this way.
At this point in my life I can afford to buy a game and not sell it. I feel that in this way I hope to support the gaming industry as a whole - I know there are a lot of people getting paid out of that who shouldn't be as they are just middle men or greedy - but we live in super-capitalism. Its just the way it is.

I look at it like buying something locally which is more expensive now and then just to support my neighbors.

Well it's neat that you are doing ok money-wise, but I dunno, I think some people would play more games if they only had to pay a fraction of the cost, which in the long term could be better than someone who pirates the game or doesn't even play it. For instance I'm not going to buy Left 4 Dead, or Far Cry, but I might if they were a lot cheaper.

I agree - I personally think that digital downloads should be cheaper for the obvious reasons.
I think then people would really shift to that avenue and increase overall sales.

I know everyone can't afford to just buy a game when they want, especially when you are young.
So it makes sense to me that a lot of people want to trade and re-sell.
I have not problem with that - I'm just stating that for me right now in life I'm ok without that.

I've traded in a ton of old games (many of them PC) I was never going to play again through Goozex this year. In return, I've scored some games that I would not have actually bought but that I am glad I now own. That's why I bought Fallout 3 from Amazon instead of through Steam- I want a copy of the game that I can do with as I will.