MMA Catch All Thread.

This entire fight is an absurdity featuring loathsome human beings, however, while logically I'd have Mayweather walking this, the last 20 months have been filled with wall-to-wall, non-stop insanity and subversion of expectations, so McGregor winning really shouldn't be that much of a shocking possibility.

So Conor weighed in at 151 yesterday (friday) and guessed he will be fighting at about 170 lbs.

Is that normal?

In MMA, yes. Goes to the grappling roots of the sport. No idea about boxing. If I were guessing, I'd think the emphasis on cardio in boxing would prohibit the big weight cuts we've seen with Anderson Silva, Jon Jones, even Lesnar. But somebody else in here who actually follows boxing would know better.

ETA: So, the "best" boxer needed 10 rounds to end a rookie. Randy Couture finished Toney in 2 minutes.

Surprisingly decent fight. Conditioning matters.

So, the bizarre experiment over. What I've learned is that boxers shouldn't fight MMA, and MMA fighters shouldn't try to be pro boxers. I'm not at all interested in seeing anything like this again.

Though apparently sometimes pro wrestlers of the sports entertainment ilk can be competitive MMA fighters and vice versa.

Top_Shelf wrote:

In MMA, yes. Goes to the grappling roots of the sport. No idea about boxing. If I were guessing, I'd think the emphasis on cardio in boxing would prohibit the big weight cuts we've seen with Anderson Silva, Jon Jones, even Lesnar. But somebody else in here who actually follows boxing would know better.

ETA: So, the "best" boxer needed 10 rounds to end a rookie. Randy Couture finished Toney in 2 minutes.

Clearly MMA > Boxing 2 minutes vs 10 rounds.

I think its pretty obvious Mayweathers strategy was to get the fight to the middle late rounds and then turn it on. It was close fight for anyone who doesn't really follow boxing. How in control Mayweather was grinding out the rounds until McGregor was gassed was blatantly obvious.

The Deadspin piece Enix linked to in the previous page pretty much called it somewhat.

What I was surprised by was how gassed McGregor was by the 6th? + round. Its also what the article didn't call.

They had the 3-4 round call right but past that Mayweather just slowly turned it on picking him to pieces. 'Im still in it'. Yea no bud. The ref saved you some serious brain damage. Mayweather doesn't have that clear KO power but like Berto int he video I linked mentioned he punches sharp. Some of them was so quick and precise you really couldn't tell unless it was slow mo.

jowner wrote:

Clearly MMA > Boxing 2 minutes vs 10 rounds.

I knew there was going to be this again.

No. There is no "clearly" anything based on those two fights anymore than someone could conclude that Sumo is greater than Football because 5 seconds is shorter than 60 minutes.

I think its pretty obvious Mayweathers strategy was to get the fight to the middle late rounds and then turn it on. It was close fight for anyone who doesn't really follow boxing.

It was. It was also pretty obvious that the ring judge was grading on a massive curve. If anywhere in my amateur career I struck my opponent with 4 hammer fists to the back of the head in one round, I would have been dq'd and marched off in shame.

It was equally obvious that the announcers didn't know crap about boxing because they were making a big deal about Mayweather getting hit by jabs. Take a look at Floyd's smiling, pristine face after 10 rounds and you'll notice nothing of any consequence (aside from a low blow in the 8th and a bunch of rabbit punches in earlier rounds) managed to land on him. His cutman might as well have brought a book. In sharp contrast, McGregor was carrying a mouse under his right eye from Round 1 on and one under his left from Round 3.

At no point was Mayweather in any sort of danger. In fact, I think it is pretty safe to say that any boxer on that card within 20 pounds of that weight would have dominated McGregor as well.

I'm not a fan of either competitor. I wanted Mayweather to teach McGregor a lesson, though, for all the egotistical thuggery he exudes, and that Mayweather did. He could have done it better, but for a 40 year old coming off a 714 day layoff, in it for the paycheck, it was more than enough.

The best ever? Yes. Defensively. This, once again, showcased that. Anyone expecting Mayweather to deviate from his DNA as a boxer to go recklessly for a swift stoppage was kidding themselves, even against McGregor. Or it's a schoolyard attempt to discredit Mayweather and boxing amongst MMA fans, as well as those in it for the spectacle.

It went down like those with a touch of boxing knowledge predicted. Mayweather was always in control. Mayweather would, and did, wave three to four rounds to map McGregor's timing and movement, and to see if the Irishman may expend too much, too soon, which he did. McGregor was never going to last, anyway.

McGregor threw 430 punches, landing 111, for a 21% success rate. Mayweather threw 320 and landed 170, for 53%.

Mayweather won every round after the fourth.

McGregor's was lucky not to be penalized, or disqualified, for hitting the back of the head, and for holding.

The whole point of this was the MMA fighter who thought he was as good a boxer, if not better, than boxing's best. The boxer was on a whole other level in every which way. It was another puncher verses a boxer affair that got carried away.

Has Mayweather been spouting off about MMA? Has he claimed he would be victorious against McGregor under MMA rules? If not, I'm not sure why there is a clamor for Mayweather to give a rematch under these circumstances. McGregor was the one harassing Mayweather for a fight. McGregor was disrespecting boxing by thinking he was good enough to leap straight to the top. Mayweather simply answered the call.

Paleocon wrote:
jowner wrote:

Clearly MMA > Boxing 2 minutes vs 10 rounds.

I knew there was going to be this again.

No. There is no "clearly" anything based on those two fights anymore than someone could conclude that Sumo is greater than Football because 5 seconds is shorter than 60 minutes.

It was sarcasm in regards to even bringing up the Toney MMA fight.

RnRClown wrote:

McGregor was disrespecting boxing by thinking he was good enough to leap straight to the top.

So Jordan and major league baseball?

Jordan wasn't saying he could win the home run derby or a golden glove, for example. He was going through a midlife crisis in the wake of his father's death.

McGregor was saying he could beat an undefeated, 15-time world champion boxer as an amateur. Completely different.

Keep in mind that almost everything CMcG said before the match was hype. He would say and do anything to draw more attention to the fight. I'm not saying that it makes it ok, but I think it's important to keep things in perspective.

The moment the fight was over I think the real Conor McGregor came out.

jowner wrote:
Paleocon wrote:
jowner wrote:

Clearly MMA > Boxing 2 minutes vs 10 rounds.

I knew there was going to be this again.

No. There is no "clearly" anything based on those two fights anymore than someone could conclude that Sumo is greater than Football because 5 seconds is shorter than 60 minutes.

It was sarcasm in regards to even bringing up the Toney MMA fight.

Wasn't making a comment about the 2 sports. I am unimpressed with Mayweather. If you're the greatest your sport has ever produced, I expect you to make an amateur look ridiculously, cosmically, silly. McG was bad and lost but I didn't come away thinking, Mayweather is jaw-droppingly amazing. I expected the 2007 Patriots vs Appalachian State. I got a 34-10 game. Not exactly 73-0.

But what do I know. Maybe yesterday was the equivalent of 73-0, or Wilt's 100 point game, or Karelin never giving up a point, or 6-0/6-0/6-0 in tennis, or Phelps lapping someone in the pool.

Just wasn't proof of Mayweather's Ultra Super EX Plus Alpha greatness. To me. Someone who doesn't know boxing. So I could just be missing it.

Top_Shelf wrote:
jowner wrote:
Paleocon wrote:
jowner wrote:

Clearly MMA > Boxing 2 minutes vs 10 rounds.

I knew there was going to be this again.

No. There is no "clearly" anything based on those two fights anymore than someone could conclude that Sumo is greater than Football because 5 seconds is shorter than 60 minutes.

It was sarcasm in regards to even bringing up the Toney MMA fight.

Wasn't making a comment about the 2 sports. I am unimpressed with Mayweather. If you're the greatest your sport has ever produced, I expect you to make an amateur look ridiculously, cosmically, silly. McG was bad and lost but I didn't come away thinking, Mayweather is jaw-droppingly amazing. I expected the 2007 Patriots vs Appalachian State. I got a 34-10 game. Not exactly 73-0.

But what do I know. Maybe yesterday was the equivalent of 73-0, or Wilt's 100 point game, or Karelin never giving up a point, or 6-0/6-0/6-0 in tennis, or Phelps lapping someone in the pool.

Just wasn't proof of Mayweather's Ultra Super EX Plus Alpha greatness. To me. Someone who doesn't know boxing. So I could just be missing it.

I read stuff like this and it makes me despair for the sport of boxing. I say this because the sport really does rely on folks actually following the sport and being educated watchers of it. This is not a knock on your intelligence, but your comment does reveal that you are not someone who follows the sport closely.

Floyd Mayweather is and has always been a defensive boxer. He is not a knockout artist. He rarely, if ever, dictates the pace of a fight or presses the action. This was evident in his only throwing 6 punches in teh first round (all of which landed btw). He counterpunches and waits for openings. It was always guaranteed that whomever got in the ring with him was going to survive the first three rounds.

An untrained watcher of the sport would look at the workrate that McG put in and say that he won the first three rounds. He did not. He threw a lot of trash and whiffed on a whole mess of power shots that made him look amateurish. When he got frustrated a minute into the second round, he managed to rack up an unprecendented 4 straight warnings for rabbit punches that would have gotten me marched out with a DQ and a possible lifetime ban. Same goes double for the holding and hitting.

As I said above, McG landed nothing of consequence. MayW cut man might as well have brought a book. McG, in sharp contrast, was carrying mice under both eyes from round 3 on.

I agree that it helps to be educated about the sport you're watching to really pick up on the subtleties that can separate an amateur from a pro. When I first started watching MMA over a decade ago I thought the ground game was boring and kept wanting to see them back on their feet striking. Now I have a much better understanding of exactly what's going on while they're grappling and, generally, I now find that far more interesting than the stand and trade fighters.

I think the issue boxing is now facing is similar to what baseball is going through. It's too slow paced in relation to competing sports. Sure, people who have followed closely all their lives are going to stick with it because they can get excited about a couple guys dancing around each other for 4 rounds until they really throw a punch or two and they can get excited about the pitcher throwing to first based for a half hour before actually throwing a pitch because they can appreciate the mind game he's playing with the runner and batter, but that hurts bringing in new people to the sport.

If you know nothing about fighting aside from what you've seen in movies are you more likely to watch 12 rounds of two guys tagging each other with heavily padded punches under a very strict set of rules or are you going to watch two guy just throw themselves at each other for 3 or 5 rounds punching, kicking, choking, body slamming, whatever until they both end looking like they just got out of a parking lot brawl. I'm not saying boxing doesn't have some amazing fights in its history but the "big" fights typically aren't that anymore. The easily grasped spectacle of MMA is going to bring in more new viewers than the more clinical sport of boxing. When was the last time you heard of a "new generation of boxing fans" being brought into the game? Back when Tyson was big?

As a bit of illustration of how style makes a difference, Andre Berto is the 15th ranked WBC Welterweight currently. He also happens to be the last person Floyd Mayweather fought before retiring, coming out of retirement, and embarrassing Conor McGregor. He holds a fight record of 31-5-0 and is known to press the action. With 23 KO's to his name, he is very much a knockout artist and has dangerous one punch KO power.

He lost to Mayweather in a one sided decision that had him winning as many as three rounds. All early rounds. He was never really in the fight.

There is not a doubt in my mind that he would have starched McGregor in three rounds or less.

Thanks Paleo for clarifying. I don't know boxing. I thought the 1000th-best boxer in the world (is McG even that high?) would have looked more silly against the GOAT. But clearly boxing is more like chess, in that there are no 73-0 matches and you have to understand the game to put being "up four pieces" into the proper context.

Top_Shelf wrote:

Thanks Paleo for clarifying. I don't know boxing. I thought the 1000th-best boxer in the world (is McG even that high?) would have looked more silly against the GOAT. But clearly boxing is more like chess, in that there are no 73-0 matches and you have to understand the game to put being "up four pieces" into the proper context.

A lot really depends on stylistic matchup. Like I said earlier, Mayweather is almost entirely a defensive boxer. This pretty much means that either you'll end up with a boring fight or it will be incumbent on the challenger to aggress and dictate the pace. He has made his living out of gassing knockout artists and he has gassed them all.

Expecting him to starch McGregor in the first three rounds would have been expecting him to fight a fight he had never fought before. And frankly, it would have been the only chance McGregor would have had as both fighters would effectively be entering as amateurs. I think it was McGregor's intention to goad him into doing exactly that with all of the pre fight trash talk. Mayweather didn't fall for it.

There are literally thousands of boxing knockout artists that I think would have made much shorter work of McGregor because of the stylistic matchup. Someone like a younger Roy Jones, for instance would have starched him within the first 40 seconds. As would a younger Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns, Marvin Hagler, Oscar de la Hoya, Felix Trinidad, or Emile Griffith. And I am certain that someone like a Gennady Golovkin would do him serious damage before a judge could step in to save him.

Think about Mayweather being a baseball team with the an all star lineup of starting pitching and an amazing bullpen, but middling batters with no real power hitters. They might win 100 games in a season and sleepwalk their way to the world series, but they aren't going to have many 9-0 blowouts.

Top_Shelf wrote:

Thanks Paleo for clarifying. I don't know boxing. I thought the 1000th-best boxer in the world (is McG even that high?) would have looked more silly against the GOAT. But clearly boxing is more like chess, in that there are no 73-0 matches and you have to understand the game to put being "up four pieces" into the proper context.

Point of clarification: Mayweather is not boxing's GOAT, no matter what LeBron James (not a boxer!) says. Neither is Ali, Marciano, Tyson or Joe Lewis or Sugar Ray (both of them). Boxing fans argue about this stuff all. the. damn. time. Mayweather obviously has the perfect record, and his defense might be the best of all time. But he's not much of a puncher (very accurate but not a lot of power), he ducked a lot of good fighters over the years and he got the 50 of his 50-0 record against a terrible boxer and many of the other 49 in matchups he orchestrated against weaker opponents.

In the McGregor fight, Mayweather controlled things from start to finish. Remember that boxers, unlike in 3-
or 5-round MMA fights, can give away 2-3 rounds to feel out the other guy. And after 3, Mayweather decided he wasn't going to get caught, and he certainly wasn't worried about McGregor's power. (Mayweather got hit a lot relative to his previous fights, but his face didn't show it.) This was very much like the classic MMA striker vs. grappler fight: The striker wants to keep the fight standing, and that's exactly what Mayweather did.

One other thing (you didn't raise it but I've seen it elsewhere): McGregor and his fans say the stoppage was too quick. I disagree. For boxing, I think it came at exactly the right time. If a boxer's hands are down and he's not throwing back and his face is catching the other guy's punches, a good ref is going to step in (and Byrd is a veteran). That was not, however, an MMA stoppage by any stretch, so I get why McGregor spoke up. But the fight was in the ring and not the Octagon so.

I'm surprised that Mayweather got a knockout here. He's 40 years old and hadn't fought in two years. Before that, his last KO was in 2011 in that weird Victor Ortiz fight. Before that, his last KO was in 2007 against pumpkin-headed Ricky Hatton with an assist from the turnbuckle. He just doesn't have much pop in those hands.

P.S. McGregor always had a puncher's chance in this fight. I didn't think he'd go to Mayweather what he did to Aldo, but you never know. If any MMA fighter could have done that to Floyd, McGregor's the one.

Kehama wrote:

I think the issue boxing is now facing is similar to what baseball is going through. It's too slow paced in relation to competing sports.

That's not the problem at all. A 12-round fight is over in less than an hour. The average baseball game is up to, what, six days?

The big problem in boxing IMO is that there are a ton of fights (check your TV listings if you don't believe me) and a lot of them just plain suck. There are terrible mismatches. Every fight's for a sh!tty belt (".... and the new interim NABJ junior lightweight East Central region North American champion .... !" yawn). There are plenty of boxers who lack skills or energy or both. The worst is when you get a couple of counterpunchers who stare at each other for 10 rounds. My god. Where's the remote?

Every once in a while, you get a good fight. Terence Crawford's last fight, despite all the hype (four belts!) was entertaining because Crawford's so damn good. The next time Vasyl Lomachenko fights, run, don't walk, to your TV. (He's boxing's version of Justin Gaethje.) GGG-Alvarez next month should be great.

Overall, though, I have much better luck with UFC fights as far as watchability goes. Take the Pettis-Moreno card. Alvey-Evans was a stinker; the rest of the card was plenty entertaining.

The first episode of the new season of TUF aired on Wednesday. It's female fighters. 125 weight class. The winner of the tournament gets the belt.

Spoiler:

Im very happy that Roxanne won her first fight. She's such a likeable person and... ONE OF US! ONE OF US!

Roy Jones never ducked anyone. Hell, he went up 20 pounds to chase the money. Even still, he went 49-1 with his only "defeat" being a DQ against a fighter he annihilated in the rematch. The 50-0 number is meaningless. Especially since it come on the back of a tomato can like McGregor.

Paleocon wrote:

I read stuff like this and it makes me despair for the sport of boxing. I say this because the sport really does rely on folks actually following the sport and being educated watchers of it.

I'm late to this, but this is just a sign that boxing is doomed. Any sport that requires the masses to be passionate and educated has no chance of being succeful any longer. A sport needs average joes to be able to sit down and enjoy it without a need to invest more than the time it takes to sit down and watch the game or match.

Believe me, every sport has their enthusiasts that understand the nuances more than the masses. But those enthusiasts don't help create large audiences that create big paydays.

Boxing had pretty much lost any sense of relavence long before MMA became popular. MMA works because it is far easier to enjoy by folks that understand nothing. There was a market of folks that used to like boxing looking for an interesting combat sport to follow.

Can you imagine the ratings of the NFL if understanding a cover 2 was required to enjoy watching? I never played and do not understand any of the plays that are the core of basketball, but I have no problem enjoying the game and having a basic understanding of why a team wins or loses.

Jayhawker wrote:

I never played and do not understand any of the plays that are the core of basketball, but I have no problem enjoying the game and having a basic understanding of why a team wins or loses.

And when the Harlem Globetrotters pay the Washington Generals, there is no doubt which is the superior team.

Baseball and football have rules and subtleties that are stupefying to the uneducated viewer.

So does MMA. But it's not required.

I think the point being made is that if boxing requires in depth knowledge in order to enjoy it, then it may go the way of the dodo.

But it really doesn't. It just requires watching it for the sport it is and not demanding that it be something else. Just as folks shouldn't go to a baseball game expecting the home team to win by four touchdowns.

Part of the reason why this is even a thing is that McG himself is to a large extent a manufacred phenomenon. There was a period where matches were being dominated by judo fighters with good ground control skills. Stun Gun Kim is a great example of that. And stand up folks really had no answer for it other than whining about how the style was boring. As such those fighters got no title shots and needed to become standing banger and get the hell beat out of them.

The result was an arms race for better mma boxers and McG "won". Even still, his actual boxing skill was barely talented amateur at best.

I gotta admit, I love how McG gets under the skin of boxing enthusiasts.

It isn't so much I am a boxing enthusiast as it is that McG fanciers love tossing around this "greatest of all time" nonsense without realizing that so much of the direction of the UFC was tailored to feature at least his style and possibly him specifically. And the nonsense that his fans spout about "in a real fight" ignores the fact that he benefits so much from limits on other styles.

He may not be a WWE actor, but he comes awfully close.