For something to be fight of the year there should be some impressive technique and skills on display. Two guys standing in front of each other playing Rock em Sock em Robots is a fun watch, but fight of the year? No way.
I've seen pretty much every major televised MMA card to date this year (and probably 5 years prior) and that was the first fight - this year - that had me, my wife and brother in law jumping in the air and yelling/high fiving at the end. Was it a BJJ chess match? Nope, but was it the best - as in most entertaining - fight that I've seen this year? Yes way.
I want my money back. I am all for a strategic fight..... That was not a fight at all.
agreed - snoozefest of a card. The Wiman fight was the lone highlight for me and I think that was a questionable decision there.
Fortunately, we had the UFC Undisputed demo to pass time...that more than made up for the lackluster fights.
Yea the Undisputed demo is absolutely awesome. They really nailed it.
As for the fight card? Yea not so great. You don't challenge for a belt by falling on your ass over and over anytime the champ engages you. Sad shit.
You would think as often as Chuck has been caught by that exact same punch, he'd learn to keep his glove on his chin once in a while.
agreed - snoozefest of a card. The Wiman fight was the lone highlight for me and I think that was a questionable decision there.
Fortunately, we had the UFC Undisputed demo to pass time...that more than made up for the lackluster fights.
It is out? Where? I didn't see it on xbox live.
TexasRay wrote:agreed - snoozefest of a card. The Wiman fight was the lone highlight for me and I think that was a questionable decision there.
Fortunately, we had the UFC Undisputed demo to pass time...that more than made up for the lackluster fights.
It is out? Where? I didn't see it on xbox live.
It's not out till Thursday but preorders through gamestop got a code. I had a friend hook me up with demo by letting me sign into his account with the code and download it to my console.
Watching Leites flop on his back was dissapointing. Makes me wish you could stomp or somehow punish weak takedowns or flops like that.
Silva won that fight as soon as Leites couldn't take Silva down.
I don't blame Silva for being careful but I wish he finished the fight. He just seemed bored. I guess he wanted to show that he could go 5 rounds? He should of just finished it in the 3rd. At least pick apart a little more than his front leg.
I guess Leites didn't want to be champ. He gave up in that fight. He fought not to lose not to win.
(I'm surprised Leites's knee held up to all those kicks)
Watching Leites flop on his back was dissapointing. Makes me wish you could stomp or somehow punish weak takedowns or flops like that.
That's where the Pride/Dream yellow card system would come in handy - had that been available, the ref would've yellow carded Leites until he had no purse (each yellow card results in a 10% purse deduction).
I'm sure that the UFC brass will punish him in their own way, tho - like no more main card bouts or something along those lines.
-Ray!!
Secret Asian Man wrote:Watching Leites flop on his back was dissapointing. Makes me wish you could stomp or somehow punish weak takedowns or flops like that.
That's where the Pride/Dream yellow card system would come in handy - had that been available, the ref would've yellow carded Leites until he had no purse (each yellow card results in a 10% purse deduction).
I'm sure that the UFC brass will punish him in their own way, tho - like no more main card bouts or something along those lines.
-Ray!!
I have to disagree. Leites made more attempts to "attack" then Silva did. If anyone should be fined I would say Silva should be that fighter. Leties made several attempts to trip Silva as he was falling down. Unsuccessful they may be, they were legitimate attempts.
I don't think either fighters purse should be effected. Great consideration should be taken with these two fighters when there next fights are scheduled. If I was a UFC executive this would be the last main event Silva participates in until he shows he can put forth a more worth effort. This is not the first fight that he has spent more time doing that salsa/dance move than fighting. This last fight reminded me a great deal of the Silvia/Monson fight. Those two fighters were warned by the Ref, during the fight, that they were not engaging enough. The same should have happened in this one.
I agree with you about Silva as well - even Dana White has gone on record about Silva's performance. If the yellow card system were in place, BOTH fighters would've been penalized several times...
While I also agree with you about Leites' gameplan, there were times where he just flopped down and laid there - I think I saw once or twice where he did it to avoid getting caught in a clinch and getting pounded - which at the time I thought was a viable and clever way to avoid the most dangerous part of Silva's attack. However, after 5 or 6 times of doing that and not being agressive at all there needed to be some way to "encourage" BOTH fighters to engage.
I think the UFC is in a tough situation with Silva - he's clearly a great fighter, but they don't have anyone at 185 who can hang with him and while the last two fights saw guys go 3+ rounds with him, both Cote and Leites weren't ever even close to challenging him. I thought Cote showed quite a bit before his knee gave out. It sounds like they're going to give him another fight at 205, then have him fight GSP.
I'm going to be the sole voice of dissent here and say that Silva fought the fight he needed to. He was clearly winning and would have been out of his mind to gamble his belt on a fight on the mat (the only way Leites could have won).
I hear folks say that Liddell gets knocked out but he wins the crowd, but that is a terrible comparison. Silva's fight is all about well placed counterattacks. Rush him and you'll pay for it. He can be an aggressive fighter and beat you with his workrate, but that isn't the sweet spot of the racquet. Liddell, otoh, is a brawler and needs to beat you with the bomb.
If folks don't like watching Silva, perhaps White needs to do a better job pairing him with someone who isn't gonig to flop on the ground like a fish. If Silva can win easily without ever rolling the dice, you can't really blame him for doing so.
I'm going to be the sole voice of dissent here and say that Silva fought the fight he needed to. He was clearly winning and would have been out of his mind to gamble his belt on a fight on the mat (the only way Leites could have won).
I hear folks say that Liddell gets knocked out but he wins the crowd, but that is a terrible comparison. Silva's fight is all about well placed counterattacks. Rush him and you'll pay for it. He can be an aggressive fighter and beat you with his workrate, but that isn't the sweet spot of the racquet. Liddell, otoh, is a brawler and needs to beat you with the bomb.
If folks don't like watching Silva, perhaps White needs to do a better job pairing him with someone who isn't gonig to flop on the ground like a fish. If Silva can win easily without ever rolling the dice, you can't really blame him for doing so.
I agree. Silva fought the smart fight although I think he could of been more aggressive in the stand up. I wish he tried to pick apart Lietes on the stand up. He seem to just focus on his lead leg. (even punched the leg?)
The fight starts on the feet. It was Lietes's job to take Silva down. He tried found out he couldn't and quit.
Even with Silva's dancing he was more aggresive than Lietes. When Lietes went down he didn't even try to pull guard he just flopped and expected Silva to join him in a BJJ match. After 3 rounds he had to know that it wasn't going to work. He might of well just stayed in the pocket and tried to get a lucky punch to stagger Silva and then take him down.
Lietes was the challenger he was the one with nothing to lose, but he never challenged Silva. Why would Silva challenge Lietes with nothing to gain?
Lietes was no match for Silva in stand-up/wrestleing and Silva probably was no match for Lietes on the ground. I blame Lietes for not going out there to take the belt away from Silva and poor match-making.
Lietes was the challenger he was the one with nothing to lose, but he never challenged Silva. Why would Silva challenge Lietes with nothing to gain?
Lietes was no match for Silva in stand-up/wrestleing and Silva probably was no match for Lietes on the ground. I blame Lietes for not going out there to take the belt away from Silva and poor match-making.
I completely agree about Lietes and I also agree about Silva being smart to not risk getting caught, etc...However, I think you can also blame both fighters for not engaging more.
In the end, the majority of the blame has to fall on the matchmaking, like you pointed out. I'm not sure there was anyone who felt that Leites was next in line for the 185 belt, but they're clearly having a hard time finding opponents for him at that weight class...As much as I like Rich Franklin, no one wants to see him get destroyed again and perhaps a rematch with Dan Henderson would be interesting, but after that, I can't think of anyone currently fighting at 185 that would pose a serious challenge to Silva.
Dana White even sounds a bit frustrated with the situation.
I am not saying that Silva should rush in to give the fans what they want. The fans' enjoyment should not be foremost in the fighters mind when they are fighting. That being said....It's a fight. And in a fight there should be fighting. The ref should have stepped up. Management should take this fight and Silva's previous ones into consideration next time a fight card is put together with him in it.
I actually think that a loss would be the biggest tragedy in Silva's career since Jed Clampett missed the possum. That is to say he would probably make himself a ton more money by losing the belt and getting it back than continuing with snoozer matches like that one.
You're exactly right, Paleo - Just like GSP got caught by Serra (I was there in Houston and it was CRAZY! :)), I'm sure Silva can and will get caught by someone and then the next 3-4 matches will be HUGE paydays for him and UFC.
Now that everyone can play the UFC demo. What does everyone think?
I was going to add that if you read this thread and don't have the demo yet, do yourself a favor and go get it NOW.
I've been playing it since last week - literally more than a hundred fights - haven't seen one match even closely resemble another. The ability to flash-ko someone is fantastic - even when it happens to me, I don't feel like it was cheap or that I got cheated...
There are layers upon layers of depth to the fighting system. You can just stand and bang (mash buttons) or you can really turn it into a chess match staniding in the Thai clench or on the ground...There are some really cool reversals and grabs you can do to get out of pretty much anything if your timing is right.
I absolutetly can't wait for the game to release.
Silva vs Forrest.
Wow.
And living only 20 min. away I will be watching this one in person.
Silva vs Forrest.
Wow.
And living only 20 min. away I will be watching this one in person.
This should be good. Griff is for real -- unlike Silva's last couple tomato can opponents.
Yea Forrest isn't going to let Silva dance around, he'll make a fight out of it.
Yea Forrest isn't going to let Silva dance around, he'll make a fight out of it.
Lietes is, purportedly, a really good ground fighter. We didn't get to see any of it because Silva, wisely, kept the fight off the ground. The problem with sending a single-dimensional fighter like a Lietes (or any of the Gracies for that matter) against a well-rounded fighter like a Silva is that the fighter with more options generally gets to pick the terrain he wants to fight with unless the other fighter is willing to take risks. Not only was Lietes unable to take the fight to Silva, he seemed unwilling to take the risks to make that happen.
I am still a fan of Silva despite all the criticism because I don't think it is his job to take the fight to contenders. If the contenders are not hungry enough to take risks, I can't at all blame him for dancing around and humiliating them. If I have the belt and you want it, it's not my job to put my chin on your glove.
I have to disagree. I think belt or no belt, they are all professional fighters. When they step in the ring it is their job to fight. Not defend a piece of leather and gold.
I would agree that more is expected of the challenger. But both fighters are getting paid by the promoter (Zuffa) to perform in a fight that the public is willing to pay for. I think both fighters in this particular case did not perform to that expectation.
I would say that the person that put the fight card together is ultimately responsible for the outcome of the fight. Joe Silva(?)
When they step in the ring it is their job to fight.
A fighter's job is to win, which is exactly what Silva did.
Any time you fight a champ, you have to go out there and take his belt. Most judges aren't going to take away a guy's belt on points, so the challenger needs to bring it hard.
Flopping ain't decisive. And if you can't take your guy down, well, I guess you won't be taking his belt, either.
The Griffin-Silva match has the potential to be pretty good because Griffin is a bit bigger and, if his previous fights are any indication, fearless. He also has motivation because he's coming off a loss.
As for Silva, everyone knows he has talent, but he really hasn't been tested in a while. Does he have the desire to win?
I don't think that the champ can sit around and drink ice tea until the challenger comes to try to take the belt. He still has to earn his pay. It is still his job to fight his opponent. I think the champ does get some extra privileges, but both fighters share in the responsibility of a quality final product (in this case a good fight).
I would love to ask Dana White this question, or perhaps a MMA fighter. I have been thinking about going to the autograph sessions before UFC 101. If I have the chance, I will ask the question.
I have to disagree. I think belt or no belt, they are all professional fighters. When they step in the ring it is their job to fight. Not defend a piece of leather and gold.
I would agree that more is expected of the challenger. But both fighters are getting paid by the promoter (Zuffa) to perform in a fight that the public is willing to pay for. I think both fighters in this particular case did not perform to that expectation.
I would say that the person that put the fight card together is ultimately responsible for the outcome of the fight. Joe Silva(?)
Actually, I think this is precisely the thing I hate most about the sport of MMA. That is that audiences -- in particular, not technical audiences -- demand excitement over technique. UFC audiences would boo the Mona Lisa and cheer an arsonist.
Silva fought a technically perfect fight against an inferior opponent. For this, he should be rewarded.
Chrometech wrote:I have to disagree. I think belt or no belt, they are all professional fighters. When they step in the ring it is their job to fight. Not defend a piece of leather and gold.
I would agree that more is expected of the challenger. But both fighters are getting paid by the promoter (Zuffa) to perform in a fight that the public is willing to pay for. I think both fighters in this particular case did not perform to that expectation.
I would say that the person that put the fight card together is ultimately responsible for the outcome of the fight. Joe Silva(?)
Actually, I think this is precisely the thing I hate most about the sport of MMA. That is that audiences -- in particular, not technical audiences -- demand excitement over technique. UFC audiences would boo the Mona Lisa and cheer an arsonist.
Silva fought a technically perfect fight against an inferior opponent. For this, he should be rewarded.
I agree, I love watching two great BJJ fighters work for position, or two great strikers try to get the angle on the other. You can look into their eyes and see the wheels turning, trying to solve the puzzle of the other fighter. There does come a point where the fight has gone from a chess match to two guys standing in front of each other with nothing happening. I think this last fight reached that point.
Paleocon wrote:Chrometech wrote:I have to disagree. I think belt or no belt, they are all professional fighters. When they step in the ring it is their job to fight. Not defend a piece of leather and gold.
I would agree that more is expected of the challenger. But both fighters are getting paid by the promoter (Zuffa) to perform in a fight that the public is willing to pay for. I think both fighters in this particular case did not perform to that expectation.
I would say that the person that put the fight card together is ultimately responsible for the outcome of the fight. Joe Silva(?)
Actually, I think this is precisely the thing I hate most about the sport of MMA. That is that audiences -- in particular, not technical audiences -- demand excitement over technique. UFC audiences would boo the Mona Lisa and cheer an arsonist.
Silva fought a technically perfect fight against an inferior opponent. For this, he should be rewarded.
I agree, I love watching two great BJJ fighters work for position, or two great strikers try to get the angle on the other. You can look into their eyes and see the wheels turning, trying to solve the puzzle of the other fighter. There does come a point where the fight has gone from a chess match to two guys standing in front of each other with nothing happening. I think this last fight reached that point.
Well, sort of.
What happened was the contender didn't want it badly enough to actually fight and the champion wasn't about to hand him his belt. Lietes had to realize that he was going to lose this fight unless he rolled the dice. He never rolled the dice.
Pages