Advice on a new PC - on the cheap!

So my current 'gaming computer' is a four and a half year old laptop. In other words, it's pretty hopeless. I've been fine playing older games (WoW) for a while, but no more! I coped with missing HL2, I was grouchy about not being able to play Bioshock, but the lack of Spore has pushed me over the edge.

It doesn't help that my housemates have all been buying shiny toys recently, and I'm jealous. :-p

Anyways, I'm looking for a new desktop computer. The catch is that I'm a (moderately) poor grad student, so can't afford anything cutting edge. Since I'm hideously ignorant about technical stuff, I thought I'd seek out some goodjer wisdom. In particular, I'm wondering how much RAM I'd need, and what the deal is with Quad cores. My understanding is that a quad core wouldn't be that big an advantage for gaming yet, but that could change. I may be laughably wrong. I'm also not sure how the speeds stack up vs dual cores.

Unfortunately Newegg doesn't ship to Australia, but I've been pointed to a good discount site that some of my friends have used. I've found three promising looking options, each with pros and cons. RAM is cheap, so I think I'd probably chuck another 2 GB into whichever one of these I bought.

Option 1. Pros: Quad Core (is this much of a pro?). Cons: Would need a much better video card.

Option 2. Pros: Cheap. Cons: AMD processor (is this as much of a con as it used to be?).

Option 3. Pros: No obvious (to me) technical cons. Cons: A little more expensive.

Option 1 could be given the same video card as Option 3 for the same final price, so essentially the only difference would be Intel Core 2 Quad 2.4 GHz vs Intel Core 2 Duo 3.16 GHz. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Can you list the spec's and cost of each?

Sonicator, do you have any other shops that ships to Australia? On a budget you are really better off building your own system.

That said, I think you should seriously consider the AMD route. In particular the new 790GX chipeset with SB750 (new south bridge). These boards handles the Phenoms (AMD native quad core) very well, and they are cheap...

I was looking at it yesterday for a friend, and a top quality 790GX mobo from ASUS costs under $150...

What resolution do you want to game at?

First of all, I use my Summoning horn of Legion.
Now, I would also suggest building.
For about 750 you could get a better system together that would fit your needs better.
Use newegg to shop for the parts because their search system is awesome.
Then go to tigerdirect.com to buy or some other parts seller. Its a way to save bucks in the states/ be a cool kid.

For PC gaming on a budget, you need to build your own. It isn't hard at all, just check with some knowledgeable friends or acquaintances, for example here, that you haven't left anything out.

I read a column recently that gave some pretty solid advice, if you are putting together a gaming PC, focus on what will benefit your gaming. Beware the temptation of putting together, or buying, an uber-rig that will be under utilized.

1) More cores are pointless, no game yet uses 4 cores and most don't even use 2. So how important is multi-tasking to you?
2) Dual graphics cards are pointless, even in the future. SLI and crossfire are expensive and won't give the benefit of just replacing your card with something more modern down the road.

Personally I am biased against AMD since the release of the ridiculously expensive Socket 939 dual cores, and the premature abandonment of the Socket 939 for AM2. People were encouraged to go 939 for future-proofing, then the future ran out. But that is my hang up and I don't expect others to share it.

I would start with a solid platform of a Core2 8500, a decent motherboard with some overclocking ability, 4 Gb of DDR2 ram and Windows Vista 64 bit. That should be good for 2-3 years, at least.

Then see what remains in your budget and buy a decent, well ventilated case; 750 w power Supply and the best graphics card you can afford. The Radeon HD 4850/4870 cards are great bang for the buck, (yes, yes, anti-AMD, consistency is the sign of a small mind :p )

*edit* oh, and i forgot. If you put together your own system with a dealer or online retailer they will usually put together the system for you for little or no cost, at least here in SA. I'm sure Oz is similar.

If you're on a budget you can do a nice gaming pc for under $700ish easy. Of course you'd have to buy an OEM copy of Windows to make that happen.

$100 Gigabyte MB EP35 DSL
$70 E2160 or E2180 dual core cpu Intel
$40 2 gigs ram pc6400 or pc5300
$150 4850 vid card ATI
$100 case and power supply
$50 320gb hard drive
$30 dvd burner

That's $540 right there. Add on OEM Windows for $100 and it's $640.

If you're on an even tighter budget you can shrink that price down by another $150 and settle for some lesser power.

Thanks for all the help guys!

TheGameguru wrote:

Can you list the spec's and cost of each?

The quad core (AU$750, + ~AU$100 for a new graphics card = US$680 total)

CPU: INTEL Core 2 QUAD Q6600 G0 + 64-bit CPU, 2.4 Ghz, 2 X 4mb L2 Cache, Boxed
Memory : 2 x 1 GB DDR2 800Mhz Kingston RAM
HDD: 500GB SATAII Hard Disk Drive
Optical Drive: 20x SATA Dual Layer DVD-RW burner
MainBoard: GIGABYTE EP45 Chipset Motherboard
Video: Nvidia Geforce 8400GS
Audio: Intergrated 7.1Channel Audio
Operating System None

AMD Dual core (AU$800 = US$640):

CPU AMD AM2 Dual Core 6000+ 64-bit CPU, 3.0 Ghz, L1 2 x 512KB L2 Cache, Stepping F2, Boxed
Memory 2 x 1 GB DR2 800Mhz RAM Corsair
Hard Disk Drive Samsung 500GB SATAII Hard Disk Drive
Optical Drive 20x Dual Layer SATA DVD-RW burner
MainBoard ASUS MAINBOARD
Video Palit Geforce 8600 GT 1GB
Audio Intergrated 7.1Channel Audio

The current favourite, Intel Dual core (AU$850 = US$680):

CPU INTEL Core 2 Duo E8500 3.16 Ghz, 6mb L2 Cache
Memory 2 x 1 GB DDR2 800Mhz
Hard Disk Drive 500GB SATAII Hard Disk Drive
Optical Drive 20x SATA Dual Layer DVD-RW burner
MainBoard ASUS / GIGABYTE P45 Chipset Motherboard
Video Nvidia Geforce 9500GT 1GB video card
Audio Intergrated 7.1Channel Audio
Case Thermaltake Soprano Black
Power Supply 430 Watt

lethial wrote:

Sonicator, do you have any other shops that ships to Australia? On a budget you are really better off building your own system.

I've checked a couple of other sites (like tigerdirect - thanks boogle!), and while they'll ship to Australia, they say that the warranties might not be covered here. Not sure that I want to risk it.

MrDeVil909 wrote:

Lots of good stuff

Good advice! I've seen the 1GB Nvidia Geforce 9500GT card for $100 cheaper than the 512MB 4850 that you (and trip1eX) suggested. I know that memory isn't all that matters with video cards, but is the 4850 likely to be worth the extra money?

I can see why you're all recommending building my own system, but my brainpower/stress budget is currently tighter than my financial one. :-p I may not have put enough emphasis on my technical ignorance and incompetence, and I'm not sure if many of my friends would be much better. The one who I thought had a good handle on these things has just built a PC of his own, and it took him about 2 weeks of swearing to get it working (SATA issues + a loose conenction or two iirc). I don't mind spending a little extra money to avoid that kind of hassle.

Edit: Does anyone have strong feeling about XP vs. Vista? I was thinking of XP since Vista is such a system hog, but then I noticed MrDeVil suggested Vista.
Edit 2:

Swat wrote:

What resolution do you want to game at?

Hadn't really given this much thought. So long as the games are playable and look reasonably pretty, I'll be happy. No desire to run Crysis on max settings! Will be using either a 19" or 22" LCD monitor, so I'd like it to suit that.

Good advice! I've seen the 1GB Nvidia Geforce 9500GT card for $100 cheaper than the 512MB 4850 that you (and trip1eX) suggested. I know that memory isn't all that matters with video cards, but is the 4850 likely to be worth the extra money?

Yes.

The 9500 GT is a pretty budget card. It will be an improvement over where you are, but a much more important factor with video memory is the bus width. The 9500 has a 128 bit bus that won't even be able to feed 1 gig of memory. If you want a 9500 GT, rather get a 512 Meg and save the money. It's a cheap trick by card vendors to fool less educated customers to add extra cheap memory to make them think they are getting a premium product.

If you prefer Nvidia cards, or don't want to go the whole way up to the 4850, then the 9600 GT is a good mid-range card with a very solid price-performance ratio. Actually after agonising for several days it's the one I've decided on to give my aging AMD 3200+ some more legs until early next year. Anything more will likely be horribly bottle-necked.

The 9600 GSO is also a good card, it has more pipes but is lower clocked than the GT and is a rebranding of the 8800 GS. It is very overclockable as well, see which of the 2 you can get cheaper and get that one.

I can see why you're all recommending building my own system, but my brainpower/stress budget is currently tighter than my financial one. I may not have put enough emphasis on my technical ignorance and incompetence, and I'm not sure if many of my friends would be much better. The one who I thought had a good handle on these things has just built a PC of his own, and it took him about 2 weeks of swearing to get it working (SATA issues + a loose conenction or two iirc).

Ok, in that case Get onto a local PC gaming forum and see what online retailers they recommend, as I said, most of these retailers will offer a free or cheap system building service. Rather spend your budget on the components than on getting an easy pre-made system from an online mall.

Sonicator, (can I call you soni btw? I am so lazy ) does dell ship to Australia? (The reason I mention it is because Dell sometimes have crazy deals on their laptops/Desktops that would offset the crappiness of buying a pre-built desktop Though their laptop selection is pretty solid.)What online vendors do you have locally?

Err actually good news! Velocity Micro ships internationally! That is one vendor that I would actually consider buying a gaming desktop from.
For budget gaming PC, look at their Vector Campus Edition

MrDeVil909 wrote:
Good advice! I've seen the 1GB Nvidia Geforce 9500GT card for $100 cheaper than the 512MB 4850 that you (and trip1eX) suggested. I know that memory isn't all that matters with video cards, but is the 4850 likely to be worth the extra money?

Yes.

The 9500 GT is a pretty budget card. It will be an improvement over where you are, but a much more important factor with video memory is the bus width. The 9500 has a 128 bit bus that won't even be able to feed 1 gig of memory. If you want a 9500 GT, rather get a 512 Meg and save the money. It's a cheap trick by card vendors to fool less educated customers to add extra cheap memory to make them think they are getting a premium product.

I had a feeling that something like that might be going on. Thanks!

I can see why you're all recommending building my own system, but my brainpower/stress budget is currently tighter than my financial one. I may not have put enough emphasis on my technical ignorance and incompetence, and I'm not sure if many of my friends would be much better. The one who I thought had a good handle on these things has just built a PC of his own, and it took him about 2 weeks of swearing to get it working (SATA issues + a loose conenction or two iirc).

Ok, in that case Get onto a local PC gaming forum and see what online retailers they recommend, as I said, most of these retailers will offer a free or cheap system building service. Rather spend your budget on the components than on getting an easy pre-made system from an online mall.[/quote]

I'll have a hunt around and see what I can find!

lethial wrote:

Sonicator, (can I call you soni btw? I am so lazy ) does dell ship to Australia? (The reason I mention it is because Dell sometimes have crazy deals on their laptops/Desktops that would offset the crappiness of buying a pre-built desktop Though their laptop selection is pretty solid.)What online vendors do you have locally?

Err actually good news! Velocity Micro ships internationally! That is one vendor that I would actually consider buying a gaming desktop from.
For budget gaming PC, look at their Vector Campus Edition

You can call me whatever you like, given how much you're helping me! :-p There's not a whole lot of local online vendors that seem reliable. I checked the Dell site, but they didn't look of have anything that was very well priced. With the exchange rate the way it is at the moment, the Vector prices are essentially the same as the ones here. If I was buying it a month ago, it would be a different story...
Thanks again for all the help!

9600gt if want an even cheaper card than the 4850. A 256mb 2600xt with at least GDDR3 memory at a $40ish USD is a decent ultra-budget choice.

trip1eX wrote:

9600gt if want an even cheaper card than the 4850. A 256mb 2600xt with at least GDDR3 memory at a $40ish USD is a decent ultra-budget choice.

Thankfully, while I'm at 'budget' levels, I'm not down to 'ultra-budget' yet. Having done a bit of research, I really like the look of the 4850. That paired with a Core2 8500 and a good dose of RAM should get me a pretty decent gaming rig, I think.

I've also discovered that one of my friends positively enjoys building computers, which is opening up a few more options. I'm now in the process of shpping around for the best price on various parts.