08 Canadian Election

I'll agree with you Edmonton's transit system sucks, which is why I don't use it, and that's not going to change any time soon.

Why is that so? These are local and provincial issues to a point, with some reliance on federal funding. There's a reason for poor infrastructure and it is definitely not a lack of cash in the coffers.

Moving away from truck use is a great idea (I wish people could get over the 'gotta have it right now' mindset), except trains run on diesel too, so that still drives the cost of items up.

Trains run on a multitude of fuels, diesel is dwindling resource as well. There are electric trains as well as the technology to build trains that run on methane gas collected from grain silos. When the primary resource being shipped across Canada is wheat there is a virtually unlimited and renewable supply of said fuel.

You should look into the platforms and the technologies being proposed before writing the idea off as unworkable.

Calgary may be more energy efficient (linky?) but has no recycling program; Edmonton does. Tomayto, tomahto.

They used recycling centres for many years and have now added curbside collection and blue bins as well. When the population was smaller, the idea made sense from a fiscal and logistical viewpoint and now that the city has grown they have shifted to better tactics.

this is easy information to find

There are additional pages for awards the city has received for such measures.

This PC government did what they said they were going to do, unlike pretty much every other government in the last 15 years. Should that not be considered a good thing?

Deregulation of food and water inspection has killed people. Eighteen Canadians alone in regards to the listeria outbreak. Not all promises are worth keeping. This was done under the banner of lower taxes, which somehow lead to a federal deficit.

Bill C-61 promises to make the majority of Canadians criminals, subject to fines and jail time. That is not a promise I want kept either. Compare it to say the Greens FLOSS policy. Granted, it's some rather neckbeardy sh*t and I don't vote Green, but from a tech industry standpoint it's an amazing idea about the digital world we live in.

Cutting arts? Ya, because Celine Dion really needs some more funding for her next concert.

Once again, this has no relevance to the situation and is a cheap shot with no basis in fact. Diva Dion does not and would not qualify for funding from the CCOA or any other branch of government. I'm asking that you educate yourself before casting a ballot, not toss out snide remarks that run contrary to what arts funding actually does and accomplishes in this country.

As for what it actually does, I'll give a few examples. One, it allows playwrights and scriptwriters to attend openings of their works in other countries. Every script sold is taxed as income and is a net benefit for the country as opposed to what is paid out for airfare. When we put on film of theatre festivals, we have far more exposure as well, increasing the size of said events and the money they generate. Be it ticket sales, staff being hired, advertising, hotel rooms being booked, taxi cabs being taken, restaurants being visited... the list goes on and on.

It allows bands and preforming acts to tour the festival circuit and for their own shows. That increases the sales of cds, which are also taxed as well, returning far more to the federal coffers than is shelled out for gas money. It raises international profile, bringing artists and fans from other countries here, all of whom kick in money to the local economy.

For pennies on arts funding, we make dollars.

Meh, I'm not going to go point for point here. We're not going to change each others minds.

I'm not trying to change your mind, just pointing out that you're woefully misinformed about a every point you've tried to make. You can vote for whoever you want... but don't run your mouth if you're not gonna land anywhere near the truth

My feeling(perception?) is a Liberal or NDP government (and this goes for you Democrats in the US too) takes too much money from honest, working people and gives it to too many special interest groups because they're somehow 'entitled' to it.

Who are these special interest groups? Most of the money in this country goes to either health care of subsidies for various industries, auto makers, the oil sands, fishing, farming, tourism etc. If you're talking about the unemployed, we actually turn a surplus on the EI fund. Always have.

Once again, who are these special interest groups? Words have meaning.

Certainly some people need a hand up; too many get hand outs.

People working Fort McMurray get paid to leave their trucks running all day long. This could be accomplished with electrical plug-ins at various stations or company parking lots, but... I dunno... it's a promise Harper made and one he kept. Wee!

Who are the 'too many getting handouts'?

The Conservatives appear more fiscally responsible, are offering more reasonable promises, and not having knee-jerk reactions to the media crisis of the day, climate change/global warming.

Yet this is the first time in almost two decades that we're running a national deficit? The appearance of fiscal responsibility is no substitute for actually being such. We've got a license to print money with the current price of oil and natural gas, yet we are not. Why is that?

First hit on Google

It is a problem and one that we can work towards to alleviate. I don't really want my house being upgraded to waterfront property via flooding.

You do realize many of the stations are franchises, right? Owned by some regular guy trying to make a living?

Who control the prices on things like candy bars and bags of chips. The gas and the pumps are owned by the company themselves, which the owner gets paid a commission for based on the volume moved. This has been pretty standard for the last ten years or so. Even independent owners go on contract with larger corporations to get their gas, who retain the right to set the price.

Not trying to change your mind, just pointing out all the fail.

Thanks for letting me run out the clock at work. Have a great weekend.

Baredil wrote:
My feeling(perception?) is a Liberal or NDP government (and this goes for you Democrats in the US too) takes too much money from honest, working people and gives it to too many special interest groups because they're somehow 'entitled' to it. Certainly some people need a hand up; too many get hand outs. The Conservatives appear more fiscally responsible, are offering more reasonable promises, and not having knee-jerk reactions to the media crisis of the day, climate change/global warming.

To claim that only the left gives out way too much money to special interest groups is ridiculous. All governments left and right do that. I don't agree with it but it is completely wrong to blame that on the left.

Baredil wrote:
I used to work at a gas station. In the morning, the boss drove by several competing stations on his way in, noted their prices, and set our price to match or slightly beat theirs. The local prices don't necessarily all get forced down from on high by the bigwigs in a different province or country. It's just a matter of a guy who runs a gas station trying to get the best margin he can so he can stay in business and pay his employees, without losing his shirt in a price war.

For that matter, prices here in Edmonton can vary by anywhere from 3 to 10 cents per liter from the west end (where there's a gas station every 3 blocks) to downtown (where it seems to be hard to find a gas station), even at the same chain. If that's a vast conspiracy of collusion, they're not very good at it.

You do realize many of the stations are franchises, right? Owned by some regular guy trying to make a living?

I used to know someone who ran a gas station and he had exactly zero say in what his price was or when it changed. 10 years ago, there used to be price wars in this city for gas. Now there isn't the slightest sliver of competition. What does that make it? Anti-competitive. When the Shell in Kanata is selling gas for the same price as the Esso in Orleans, there's something fishy going on. And my government's done nothing about it, just like they've also done nothing to curtail the blatantly illegal throttling of 3rd party DSL connections by Bell Canada (though being from out west, you're likely not affected by that.)

I know the guy who owns the station is trying to make a living. Those bullsh*t stickers you see on the gas pump that claim there's only 2% profit in selling gas? They make it sound like that's what the oil company gets wherein reality, that's what the station owner gets after the oil company has taken the substantially larger cut. I feel exactly no sympathy for the massive corporations that jack up fuel prices the second world oil prices spike but conveniently take 2-3 weeks to drop prices after oil falls.

And you know what? As a regular taxpaying guy who is trying to run an on-site service startup company, hasn't drawn more than $2,000 salary in 8 months, has credit cards filling up that I spent years paying off, who is using savings to keep his mortgage paid and who has to spend $100 for a week's worth of fuel in his car that he uses for work, I don't really give a damn about who loses a few pennies so that my girlfriend and I can afford to keep our house heated this winter. The government has a multitude of ways they can lower the price of fuel for all Canadian's, without using price controls or anything else that would take away the sliver that station owner gets. But the real priority? The Canadian DMCA. No thanks Mr. Harper, no thanks.

I heard the Green party wants to legalize pot and tax it to a tune of 1 billion! that made me giddy especially since I don't smoke pot so the thought of legalizing something I consider fairly innocent and then taxing it means maybe less taxes for me or more services! well probably not but still funny anyways

I agree with Baredil on some points especially the part we shouldn't be telling people who are already living reasonable lifestyles to be using less. If you want to live in the boonies by all means go ahead, your life your choices. Carbon tax? Just tax gas more. We really don't need some consumption taxing system (that's what GST is btw) to reduce our pollution levels. If that is what people actually want just hit them at the pump and watch them adjust. Personally I think its a bad idea as we are not Europe with dense population and good transit systems that we can just throw a curve ball to everyone with even higher gas prices. Face it Canada is one the the least densely populated countries in the world and its f*cking cold to boot. Our country is making no dent in our emissions until their is a huge revolution in the technology to transport people/goods and heat our homes (that's where some subidies should be going).

Not sure who I'm voting for but it really doesn't matter in my riding anyway so my vote will just be to prop up a parties popular vote. Leaning green/marijuana, another resource to tax

ps, Oh yea pretty happy that the idiots in the conservative party are coming out and sewering their shot at a majority when it counts. I knew they had it in them and am very happy they confirmed my suspicions.

Thanks to the internet, I can pull up just as many articles/links/quotes defending my position as you can yours. None of them are unbiased; none of them, and at the same time all of them, are correct.

Calgary went for a better transit system first; Edmonton went for a curbside recycling system.

Edmonton's transit system cannot change overnight, because you have to build it first (Rome and days and all...)

Some say oil stocks are dwindling, others keep finding large new (though often more expensive) reserves.

Some say CC/AGW is going to kill us all, some say it's not going to be that bad.

You suggest a federal deficit, everything I can find (quicky google) suggests a surplus (not that I'm crazy about that either).

Some have had one experience working at a gas station, others have had a different one.

Trains can run on other fuels, but none of them are currently economically feasible. And something has to be burned to create electricity in the prairies. Admittedly, burning coal/gas in a large plant is more efficient than burning diesel in 10000 trucks, but you have to build the plants and the lines first.

We could go at this forever, and still neither of us be right. At best we can only hope to inspire each other (and others watching the train wreck) to do some research and decide and ACT for themselves (unlike 50% of voters these days).

Do want to share a thought on this tho...

kung fu grip wrote:

going to stop ranting now before I burst a blood vessel...

That is the exact feeling the Tories campaign is trying to invoke amongst voters. Is it healthy in any way, shape or form for the health of political discourse in this country?

Healthy? Hmm. Necessary? YES. Getting worked up/aggravated/frustrated/angry when discussing important issues like these implies we CARE about what happens around us and maybe are willing to do something about it, or at the very least get off the couch and vote. Completely reasoned, neutral discussions about these issues (to me) is just an intellectual exercise - an academic circle-jerk. A more 'spirited' discussion implies you understand and are concerned and emotionally involved in how these issues can affect you, you family, your city, your country.

IMHO.

=)

jowner wrote:
especially the part we shouldn't be telling people who are already living reasonable lifestyles to be using less.

This pretty much sums up my objection to the Green Shift. I try to live frugally and somewhat green where possible. Telling me I have to pay more yet to balance out those who don't even attempt to just burns my butt.

On a larger scale, us in the west who have spent the last 400 years burning coal and oil telling the rest of the world (China, India, Africa) that they have to freeze in the dark and are not allowed use their available resources to drag themselves out of the stone age seems a bit preposterous(pretentious?) to me.

arg.grr.grumble.

It would seem I'm not the only one...

Canadians' resolve on global warming cools with economy

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/theeditorialpage/story.html?id=95bd58ec-107c-4421-9b99-3125d2cc61c0

Arise ye thread.

Well, it's election day. We could at least pretend that we care.

Vector wrote:
Arise ye thread.

Well, it's election day. We could at least pretend that we care.

But we don't ;/

pretty boring election especially compared to what is going on down south.

Results will start coming out around 10pm est when the West polls close and reporting can begin.... off to watch the CBC to see how fast a Conservative minority can be declared.

I could also pretend I didn't hit the skip button on the DVR during the nightly news every time there was an election related story.

Conservatives need a 155 (I think) for majority and currently have 134.

I hate Alberta.

Edit: Glad I didn't vote in my hometown. They always vote Conservative.

Edit 2: Our political discourse is so polite. Someone nominate Wayne Gretzky or marry off their pregnant teenager!

Vector wrote:
I hate Alberta.

Not all Albertans (including this expat) are Conservatives.

I opted to vote based on ideology as opposed to strategic voting. In the end even a strategic vote in my riding wasn't going to change anything it seems.

It is clear the Conservatives will govern again, however so long as it isn't a majority, I'll be reasonably content.

Dramatic Marlin wrote:
Vector wrote:
I hate Alberta.

Not all Albertans (including this expat) are Conservatives. :-P

Not according to CBC :D.

Dramatic Martin wrote:
It is clear the Conservatives will govern again, however so long as it isn't a majority, I'll be reasonably content.

This is what I'm going for. As long as there isn't a majority I'll be happy. I even think a Conservative minority would be a good thing.

Conservatives have 142 at the moment.

According to CBC I have to thank Quebec for a possible minority government. I'm conflicted.

Of course a conservative has taken my riding in the lower mainland too. Amazingly the closest competition was NDP. That is a big variance between the two.

Dramatic Marlin wrote:
Of course a conservative has taken my riding in the lower mainland too. Amazingly the closest competition was NDP. That is a big variance between the two.

I know you moved to BC but wasn't sure which part. Where are you living?

I lived in Abbotsford for 12 years and I've been told that they've voted Conservative every year. Glad I've lived in Vancouver for the last two elections.

I'm in Pitt Meadows, so I am in the Pitt Meadows - Maple Ridge - Mission riding. The Conservative candidate won by a wide margin - 51.18% to the NDP's 33.75 (closest competition). I was personally not happy with the incumbent after corresponding with him regarding Bill C-61.

Dramatic Marlin wrote:
I'm in Pitt Meadows, so I am in the Pitt Meadows - Maple Ridge - Mission riding. The Conservative candidate won by a wide margin - 51.18% to the NDP's 33.75 (closest competition). I was personally not happy with the incumbent after corresponding with him regarding Bill C-61.

Surprised Mission is part of the riding. Makes sense though. It seems that most outside of Vancouver vote conservative.

And another useless election comes to an end. Thank you Steven Harper for calling an unnecessary election when you were governing just fine and everyone knew you were going to get another minority government anyways. GREAT! Thank god we got to waste a month of our lives waiting for the status quo to be resumed. You couldn't wait another two years? You just had to call an early election to remind everyone that you can still get votes? Are you that insecure? GOD!

At least my polling station was right in my building so I only wasted like 3 minutes of my life voting in this retarded election, not that my vote mattered one bit in my liberal stronghold. Thank god for FPTP!
Hopefully Stephane Dion resigns as leader of the liberals now, hopefully they won't shoot themselves in the foot with their next selection and base it on something other than petty internal squabbles. Hey liberals! How about someone electable next time!

I'm so disgusted/bored with Canadian politics right now - so much more interesting down South.

Outside of the obvious frustration with the parties and the results, I am most frustrated by the waste of $300M for an election that in the end represented little overall shift in the climate in Ottawa.

Well, it wasn't a complete waste for the province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Our premier wanted to send a very strong message to Mr. Harper, and he pretty much did. The conservatives were shut out in Newfoundland and Labrador, with 6 seats going to the liberals, and one to the NDP. Granted, 7 seats is a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things, but it was nice to see our normal, apathetic selves finally stand up for something and send a message out.

Outside of the obvious frustration with the parties and the results, I am most frustrated by the waste of $300M for an election that in the end represented little overall shift in the climate in Ottawa.

It's over a billion dollars across the last four years. Wheee!!!

Wonder what's going to happen with the fixed election date for next October.

My riding in Edmonton is the only on in Alberta that did not go to the Conservatives. It was very close and my polling station was packed.

Kier, was this Edmonton-Strathcona? I was pleasantly surprised to see Rahim Jaffer ousted. I remember his first run in which there was the scandal with his assistant impersonating Rahim during a radio interview and Rahim afterwards claiming to have done the interview himself.

kung fu grip wrote:
Outside of the obvious frustration with the parties and the results, I am most frustrated by the waste of $300M for an election that in the end represented little overall shift in the climate in Ottawa.

It's over a billion dollars across the last four years. Wheee!!!

Wonder what's going to happen with the fixed election date for next October.

Not sure if I can get too upset about the money. People would complain either way if we had an election or didn't. What costs we pay to go to the polls just over every 2 years might be tiny compared to the gains we reap from keeping Parliament in minority limbo. Lets be honest of the 2 realistic major parties I trust neither with a majority.

Yeah I live in Edmonton-Strathcona. Linda Duncan of the NDP took my riding though I did not vote for her.

Damn double post.

Edmonton-Strathcona

Renamed to: EYE OF LAYTON!

Not sure if I can get too upset about the money. People would complain either way if we had an election or didn't. What costs we pay to go to the polls just over every 2 years might be tiny compared to the gains we reap from keeping Parliament in minority limbo. Lets be honest of the 2 realistic major parties I trust neither with a majority.

Drives down voter turn-out when you get three elections in four years. I think I even missed one. Combine it with a less than representative electoral system and apathy is all it really breeds. The fact it's been engineered to weaken another party really ads into that.

Drives down voter turn-out when you get three elections in four years. I think I even missed one. Combine it with a less than representative electoral system and apathy is all it really breeds. The fact it's been engineered to weaken another party really ads into that.

Yup. People asking "Voter Turnout - Why so Low?" have the answer right there.

I'd just like to highlight what Vector said. Compared to what's happening on this side of the border, that was the most polite election ever.

I'm fine with low turnouts. I think the previous turnout was 5% more around. That's a pretty clear signal to the parties and leaders involved that 5% compared to last time think them and their parties are so piss poor they cant even get off their asses for 20 mins to go vote. I honestly had no idea who I was voting for yesterday and was even considering spoiling my ballot with a Obama write in as every party and leader involved was craptastic and I just ended up voting for the guy I knew was going to win and deserved to.

I think the message is pretty clear right now that sending us to vote wont net anyone a majority so screw off until you guys get some real leaders and convincing platforms.