Heavy Rain Catch All

Played the demo and...

Hm.

Not sure what I think about this whole thing. Unlike anything I've ever seen or played before, so part of my reaction might be to the unfamiliarity to the whole control scheme.

The graphics looked decent, but I thought the voice acting left something to be desired.

Penny Arcade had a post about this today. All I can say is... crimeny!

I think it's pretty safe to say I won't be playing this one. Mostly because my wife and I play games together (she likes watching-- we're on our second Fallout 3 playthrough because she just likes the story and characters so much), and she absolutely cannot handle children-in-peril stories. We've got two kids under three years old, and the emotional punch this game packs is going to be too much for us.

Too bad. I feel like I'll be missing out.

I don't like this child-exploitaion-crime-story. Whenever there is a crime movie with child abuse, I switch off. There is nothing interesting about that subject matter to me. I have kids and I get totally annoyed by stupid stories like that... When I read that Heavy Rain had this kind of a lame story I was disappointed...

While I don't dispute the choices to not play the game because you think it'll be uncomfortable, I do dispute characterizing a story as "stupid" and "lame" without actually seeing it. Execution is everything.

brof wrote:

I don't like this child-exploitaion-crime-story. Whenever there is a crime movie with child abuse, I switch off. There is nothing interesting about that subject matter to me. I have kids and I get totally annoyed by stupid stories like that... When I read that Heavy Rain had this kind of a lame story I was disappointed...

no not uncomfortable, but annoyed. Whenever I get to experience that kind of story I think the writers are pretty lame, because they try to create supense/thrills by using childs and putting them in danger -> exploitation movie

brof wrote:

no not uncomfortable, but annoyed. Whenever I get to experience that kind of story I think the writers are pretty lame, because they try to create supense/thrills by using childs and putting them in danger -> exploitation movie

Call it what you will, I still say this is making broad assumptions about something yet unseen, though that's, again, a pretty good sign that you shouldn't be picking this up.

Wow. That video was really technically impressive. I don't think I've seen a game where the sensory overload of trying to find someone in a crowd really hit home like that - not even games where that's the entire point. The facial animation and the acting especially on the kid were kinda bad, but even so the scene as a whole was completely effective. I was pretty freaked out just watching it.

brof wrote:

I don't like this child-exploitaion-crime-story. Whenever there is a crime movie with child abuse, I switch off. There is nothing interesting about that subject matter to me. I have kids and I get totally annoyed by stupid stories like that... When I read that Heavy Rain had this kind of a lame story I was disappointed...

Did you watch the video? There wasn't any child abuse. Or crime. Maybe you shouldn't judge the entire story based on out-of-context descriptions of the content of one particular scene.

I just watched the video as well. I don't understand what brof is talking about. There are no children being exploited. There is noone doing anything wrong. There is simply a child who wanders off. Any parent out there knows how easy it could happen. Calling it stupd and lame..... I just dont get it.

Cobble wrote:

I just watched the video as well. I don't understand what brof is talking about. There are no children being exploited. There is noone doing anything wrong. There is simply a child who wanders off. Any parent out there knows how easy it could happen. Calling it stupd and lame..... I just dont get it.

Everyone has their own internal buttons, perhaps one of Brof's was pushed.

According to the reviews I'm reading, whatever is in the game appears to be handled with grace and class.

doubtingthomas396 wrote:

All I can say is... crimeny!

...as much as I dislike how everything seemed so disjointed, I got to say, they really captured the sense of chaotic panic in that scene.

Sigh, it's going to be one of those games where I really want to play it but the game play mechanics really break the natural flow. Sort of like watching a good movie and some one decides to be a d**k and pushes pause button every 5 sec.

Cobble wrote:

I just watched the video as well. I don't understand what brof is talking about. There are no children being exploited. There is noone doing anything wrong. There is simply a child who wanders off. Any parent out there knows how easy it could happen. Calling it stupd and lame..... I just dont get it.

I think there's a misinterpretation of what brof is saying; the video contains no exploitation of children. What brof is complaining is the use of a child as a story tool to create drama or panic. as Jeff-66 says, each has his buttons and this childs in peril for story's sake seems to be one of brof's, so he's staying away.

It's all in how you say something.

I do think it's brof's personal repulsion towards using a child-tragedy as the set piece for this specific part of the story, that he was trying to express. I just don't think he chose the proper wording, as Hobbes showed us.

Although I do not agree with brof, I do respect his opinion to stay away from the game based on what he knows of it. It seems we're paying more attention to the semantics than the meaning of brof's post.

Personally I think that, if handled correctly, a tragedy like this can elevate the emotional resonance of a story to peaks that it couldn't reach if the action did not involve a child.

I'll use the movie Narc as an example. The part I'm referencing starts at 3:57, but its best if you to watch the whole scene. It's only 6 minutes long and makes your blood boil. It also tells you why the character, Henry Oak, is who he is. It hits such an emotional plateau that its hard to shake from your memory.

When used correctly, these types of situations can create a longer lasting, deeper emotional connection with the viewer, or in the case of Heavy Rain, the player.

Horrible things happen in life. Its not easy to watch and even harder to deal with. We're supposed to hate these situations because we are human. That's what is so poignant about them.

Of course, I haven't played Heavy Rain, yet, so it could be exploitative, but I'll hold judgement until I have a chance to sit down with it.

I'll not join brof in avoiding this game, but I share his disappointment with its child-in-danger scenario. It's an emotionally resonant theme, to be sure, but I thought David Edelstein summed up my feelings about it well in his review of the movie 21 Grams: "it doesn't take insight or artistry to shake up an audience with dead kids. It just takes a certain kind of ruthlessness."

I read the ESRB description

Spoiler:

surrounding the investigation of the Origami Killer, a serial killer who kidnaps children in public places.

So I was disappointed about that subject matter... I saw too many crime TV drama with these stories and usually I switch channel, because they are not important or interesting to me.... of course it is about execution. For example, I love Memento, to give an example. A guy is looking for the murder of his wife. The movie is all about execution. The story is nothing great really, but how it is done makes the difference. So I will check out the demo, but I don't know if the story is presented in a way that it will be interesting enough.

Okay, I don't like kids in movies. That's my whole point. They ruin the stories completely for me. Movies or Thrillers with kids in it tend to go in one direction... I love kids, but not in a serious movie or a serious game

brof wrote:

Okay, I don't like kids in movies. That's my whole point. They ruin the stories completely for me. Movies or Thrillers with kids in it tend to go in one direction... I love kids, but not in a serious movie or a serious game :-)

I don't blame you at all. I'm the same way with rape scenes. I get so uncomfortable during them that I want to turn the film off or walk out. That's the way they're supposed to make me feel, but I don't have to like it.

We goodjers are a smart breed. We tend to take things as they are written. That's where the confusion came in, I believe. The way you've stated it, here, I can't argue with your reasons for passing on the game, at all.

brof wrote:

I don't like this child-exploitaion-crime-story. Whenever there is a crime movie with child abuse, I switch off. There is nothing interesting about that subject matter to me. I have kids and I get totally annoyed by stupid stories like that... When I read that Heavy Rain had this kind of a lame story I was disappointed...

I can understand your frustration brof but it really does happen. Think John Walsh of America's Most Wanted fame. Three-Wise-Monkeying Heavy Rain won't stop child abuse or stop such stories from being reported in the newspaper or stop it from being a plot of any number of books or movies. And because of that I think it's important for parents who play this game not to extract anything from Heavy Rain from inside that virtual world out to our own realities.

With my son having just turned 7-months, I now completely understand a parents' reaction to movies, stories, etc. that involve any sort of harm inflicted on children. Being 35 and just experiencing this is quite earth-shattering as I had no idea of this new seemingly bottomless reservoir of emotions including rage, fear, and the need to protect my son that obviously existed within me but was only triggered by the birth of him.

Yet regardless of this new hypersensitivity to anything involving the harm of children, I think I can suspend my reality to enjoy Heavy Rain. It will be the same suspension of reality and immersion into the environment of the story that I used to enjoy any number of movies and books that involve subjects such as rape of women, beating of women, torture, slavery, genocide, war, murder, theft, etc. All things which I revile. But just because I am watching them in a movie or reading about them in a book doesn't mean I am advocating them. It's about the story not about the heinous incident that we all commonly deplore. Playing Heavy Rain also doesn't mean my son is superstitiously more prone to such an incident either. Playing Heavy Rain won't have my mind conjuring up thoughts of my son in the role of the young victim in the game. It just means I'm playing a video game.

I totally plan on picking this up and playing it with my wife together, alternating control of the game. She loves CSI and all that stuff so I think this is right up her alley.

I definitely respect and understand your perspective brof. Do you think you are planning on staying away solely because of your summation that this is a cheap way to evince an emotional response from players, or perhaps you don't like the vulnerability it might make you feel as a parent?

brof wrote:

a serious game

Can a video game be serious? I can't recall ever having regarded a video game as such. To me, they are all entertainment. Fictitious. Fake. I do not advocate the murder of a human being yet I play FPS games where I'm racking up the body count by dozens per minute.

IGN's video review is up, and it is good news for those hopeful and excited for this game:

IGN video review of Heavy Rain (length 4:03)

There was a great movie with a kid in it. Life is Beatuiful by Roberto Begnini... terrible but great. Oh and Chaplin The Kid. And Paper Moon.... hm I lost my point here

I played part of the demo, and am now convinced that the controls and interactions do work, and serve quite well to draw you into the story in some cases. I really liked:

Spoiler:

The fight scene in Lauren's room. I can imagine that fight could have turned out a lot of different ways, in this case I won and the guy ran away.

but at the same time, I wasn't too thrilled about:

Spoiler:

Having to manually activate the inhaler during the tutorial. If that's the only time I have to do something like that, then OK, but I would hate to have tons and tons of scenes like that.

I'm looking forward to this a lot more now.

brof wrote:

I read the ESRB description

Spoiler:

surrounding the investigation of the Origami Killer, a serial killer who kidnaps children in public places.

So I was disappointed about that subject matter... I saw too many crime TV drama with these stories and usually I switch channel, because they are not important or interesting to me.... of course it is about execution. For example, I love Memento, to give an example. A guy is looking for the murder of his wife. The movie is all about execution. The story is nothing great really, but how it is done makes the difference. So I will check out the demo, but I don't know if the story is presented in a way that it will be interesting enough.

Okay, I don't like kids in movies. That's my whole point. They ruin the stories completely for me. Movies or Thrillers with kids in it tend to go in one direction... I love kids, but not in a serious movie or a serious game :-)

That makes much more sense to me. You simply have your own tastes and since this game touches on things you already know that you don't like you find it disappointing. i can 100% stand behind that. My only concern is that since we havent played the game we don't really know how it plays out. So rushing to judge a plot device might be a bit premature.

I wouldn't use lame or stupid as descriptors though. I dont like nuts on brownies but i wouldnt call nuts on brownies a stupid idea.

ahrezmendi wrote:

I played part of the demo, and am now convinced that the controls and interactions do work, and serve quite well to draw you into the story in some cases. I really liked:

Spoiler:

The fight scene in Lauren's room. I can imagine that fight could have turned out a lot of different ways, in this case I won and the guy ran away.

but at the same time, I wasn't too thrilled about:

Spoiler:

Having to manually activate the inhaler during the tutorial. If that's the only time I have to do something like that, then OK, but I would hate to have tons and tons of scenes like that.

I'm looking forward to this a lot more now.

I liked both.

Spoiler:

The fight scene was not easy. The other dude got some serious hits in. I managed to win but I limped off. On a side note, did anyone semi-perfect the fight scene and walk off without a scrape? I'm curious if everyone regardless of how "well" they do in the fight walks off looking the same or if the game actually scales your wounds according to how well or bad you did.

Spoiler:

The inhaler, while frustrating, was cool. I just battled a bad upper respiratory infection and needed an albuterol inhaler to help me breathe when things got tight in my lungs. I understand the scramble to grab that inhaler to get some much needed relief and can only imagine it must be even greater for those who actually suffer from asthma. So while the game interpretation is frustrating, I imagine it's as close as a video game can get to the rush to find which pocket your inhaler is in, shake it, and finally get that medicine.

I preordered the game but from now on I'm in total blackout mode - I don't even want to chance reading a spoiler for this one.

Reply to FSeven regarding the demo:

Spoiler:

I played the fight scene multiple times just to see how I could change it. On one playthru, I managed to get through it perfectly. The other dude limped away and my character walked off without a scratch. Lauren's apartment was a mess, with broken glass and a smashed table littering the floor, and Lauren standing in the middle of the room just looking at the mess with a look of, "This is going to take forever to clean up."

Another time, I didn't push a single button and my guy got the ever-loving sh*t kicked out of him. Eventually, the other guy ran away on his own, and if I remember correctly Lauren helped the detective to his feet. He had cuts and scrapes all over. The apartment wasn't quite as destroyed, and the table was still in one piece. The detective slowly limped down the hall, groaning with each painful step, and Lauren sat down on her bed, seeming glad the ordeal was over.

Yet another time, I let both characters get some good hits in. The guy eventually took off in a sort of half-limp half-run, the detective was still standing and he had a scrape on his forehead, but not much else. The apartment was sort of half destroyed. Glass was broken, but the table was still standing. The detective said pretty much the same dialogue as when he got the crap kicked out of him, and he limped down the hall, but he wasn't groaning and seemed to be limping less. Lauren was left standing by her bed as if not sure what to do next.

I haven't tried simply leaving her when the other guy shows up. Maybe I will later.

Lard wrote:
93_confirmed wrote:

I don't want to start a price war but $6 per hour (single playthrough is ~ 10 hours) for AAA quality gaming is just fine imo and the replay value is icing on the cake. Also, I think it's important that gamers support developers that take risks by bringing successful unconvential titles like this to the market.

You mean like hold back parts of the game as DLC?

I'm not sure that actually makes sense as a reply to the thing you quoted.

RoughneckGeek wrote:

Not a mod. - Certis

Jonman wrote:

Not a mod. - Certis

Hey, I'm not a mod, too! We're like twins! Triplet twins!

AcidCat wrote:

I preordered the game but from now on I'm in total blackout mode - I don't even want to chance reading a spoiler for this one.

Knuckle bump. I'm just grateful I'm going on vacation next week--I wouldn't handle sitting in my cube and not reading spoilers well.

MechaSlinky wrote:
RoughneckGeek wrote:

Not a mod. - Certis

Jonman wrote:

Not a mod. - Certis

Hey, I'm not a mod, too! We're like twins! Triplet twins!

You guys should try it, they're super cool, mods are.

IMAGE(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd115/Podesta27/mods.jpg)

MechaSlinky wrote:
Spoiler:

I haven't tried simply leaving her when the other guy shows up. Maybe I will later.

Spoiler:

I tried this and her screams intensify as you walk away but nothing else happens. I also tried letting the detective die by not using the inhaler but nothing happens.

MechaSlinky wrote:
Lard wrote:
93_confirmed wrote:

I don't want to start a price war but $6 per hour (single playthrough is ~ 10 hours) for AAA quality gaming is just fine imo and the replay value is icing on the cake. Also, I think it's important that gamers support developers that take risks by bringing successful unconvential titles like this to the market.

You mean like hold back parts of the game as DLC?

I'm not sure that actually makes sense as a reply to the thing you quoted.

Yeah, I misread that. Dropped the ball on that one.

FSeven wrote:
brof wrote:

I don't like this child-exploitaion-crime-story. Whenever there is a crime movie with child abuse, I switch off. There is nothing interesting about that subject matter to me. I have kids and I get totally annoyed by stupid stories like that... When I read that Heavy Rain had this kind of a lame story I was disappointed...

I can understand your frustration brof but it really does happen. Think John Walsh of America's Most Wanted fame. Three-Wise-Monkeying Heavy Rain won't stop child abuse or stop such stories from being reported in the newspaper or stop it from being a plot of any number of books or movies. And because of that I think it's important for parents who play this game not to extract anything from Heavy Rain from inside that virtual world out to our own realities.

I can't speak for Brof, but my problem with the whole children in peril motif is that it is a very cheap way to achieve emotional resonance. Likewise rape. I remember being extremely disappointed in disc four of firefly-- the episode where the bounty hunter casually threatens to rape Kaylee (no spoiler warning because it happens very early in the episode and everyone here should have seen it by now). I was kind of disgusted with the writing on that one-- it felt like they were throwing around big ugly words like rape to cover for the fact that the villain wasn't particularly interesting or well written. Plus, it devalues the term because when you throw it into a script to achieve a cheap pop, the less seriously people will eventually take it. Boy who cried wolf syndrome (or have you not noticed the fact that even people on this forum refer to bad video games as "raping" them somehow?)

It's emotional button pushing. Maybe you can pull yourself out of it and be dispassionate about it. Good for you; you have a wider variety of entertainment options than I do. For me, I just can't do it.

FSeven wrote:

With my son having just turned 7-months, I now completely understand a parents' reaction to movies, stories, etc. that involve any sort of harm inflicted on children. Being 35 and just experiencing this is quite earth-shattering as I had no idea of this new seemingly bottomless reservoir of emotions including rage, fear, and the need to protect my son that obviously existed within me but was only triggered by the birth of him.

Yet regardless of this new hypersensitivity to anything involving the harm of children, I think I can suspend my reality to enjoy Heavy Rain. It will be the same suspension of reality and immersion into the environment of the story that I used to enjoy any number of movies and books that involve subjects such as rape of women, beating of women, torture, slavery, genocide, war, murder, theft, etc. All things which I revile. But just because I am watching them in a movie or reading about them in a book doesn't mean I am advocating them. It's about the story not about the heinous incident that we all commonly deplore. Playing Heavy Rain also doesn't mean my son is superstitiously more prone to such an incident either.

Personally, my problem with it isn't that I think watching a movie in which rape or child abuse happens means I'm endorsing rape or child abuse. My problem is that I don't want to watch people getting raped or abused. Again, it's a personal thing. I'm the sort of guy who has nightmares about movies or games I've played if they strike a particular chord in me. As the father of a 4 month old baby, I value my sleep too much to disturb myself to that extent.

In addition, there's the fact that the trailer just made me really pissed off at the father. He already lost the kid once, and he doesn't tell the clown to hold his damn horses while he corrals the kid? Father of the freakin' year.

I'm the parent of a bolter. My daughter is almost 3, and has a tendency to zoom off if you don't keep an eye on her. For that reason whenever I'm with her in a public place like a mall, I hold one of her hands always. If you know your kid runs off if you don't hold onto him, you hold onto him. Or at least you don't take your eyes off of him. Ever.

So in addition to being horrified by the ending of the trailer, I'm really mad at the father in the demo because if he'd been doing a better job, he wouldn't have had to throw himself in front of a car to try to save his kid.

FSeven wrote:

Playing Heavy Rain won't have my mind conjuring up thoughts of my son in the role of the young victim in the game. It just means I'm playing a video game.

I envy you this, I really do. I have never been able to keep myself wholly severed from my avatar. It means that I miss out on a whole lot of gaming, because I just can't make myself do certain things. It's why my game selections tend toward the "blow stuff up for points" model. I don't have to worry about having emotional reactions to Zaxxon. (Which they should TOTALLY remake!)

With all that said, I did try the demo because I'd read that the demo doesn't include any direct child-in-peril stuff, though it does reference the child serial killer, and I wanted to see how the gameplay worked.

I found it be be graphically impressive, but did anyone else get the impression that the game was basically a 10 hour long branching quicktime event?

Not a poorly done quicktime event, mind you, but still a big huge quicktime event. Kind of like the Bourne game as envisioned by Alfred Hitchcock.

doubtingthomas396 wrote:

I found it be be graphically impressive, but did anyone else get the impression that the game was basically a 10 hour long branching quicktime event?

Not a poorly done quicktime event, mind you, but still a big huge quicktime event. Kind of like the Bourne game as envisioned by Alfred Hitchcock.

Sounds like Dragon's Lair.