Courtesy of BoingBoing. The good stuff starts around 4:30.
Lawrence Lessig, a respected Law Professor from Stanford University told an audience at this years Fortune’s Brainstorm Tech conference in Half Moon Bay, California, that “There’s going to be an i-9/11 event” which will act as a catalyst for a radical reworking of the law pertaining to the Internet.
Lessig also revealed that he had learned, during a dinner with former government Counter Terrorism Czar Richard Clarke, that there is already in existence a cyber equivalent of the Patriot Act, an “i-Patriot Act” if you will, and that the Justice Department is waiting for a cyber terrorism event in order to implement its provisions.
You know, speaking out against your government on an online forum seems alot like terrorism; Also, videogames and porno, definatly terrorism.
Every day I get more and more thankful that I don't live in the US. It really seems as though civil liberties are becoming symbolic only there.
I hate to break it to you, Parallax, but civil liberties are an endangered species here in Canada, too.
Free speech, apparently,is no longer an option, according to the Canadian and Provincial Human Rights Councils.
And we've no constitutional right to bear arms...
And we've no constitutional right to bear arms...
Don't worry, those days are numbered for the USA too.
Really? I thought that Supreme Court ruling last month actually strengthened the 2nd Amendment.
Really? I thought that Supreme Court ruling last month actually strengthened the 2nd Amendment.
Shhh, you're interfering with the hysteria! 
I hate to break it to you, Parallax, but civil liberties are an endangered species here in Canada, too.
Free speech, apparently,is no longer an option, according to the Canadian and Provincial Human Rights Councils.
And we've no constitutional right to bear arms...
While I don't disagree with his point on the CHRC, forgive me if I don't think Ezra Levant has the best barometer on the state of civil liberties in Canada being that he used to run the Western Standard, one of the most neo-conservative publications in the country. The state of our civil liberties isn't even in the same league as where things south of the border are quickly heading. Our border guards don't have the right to seize your electronics without reason for as long as they want (though Harper's Conservative government might soon turn our border guards into copyright cops for US business interests) and our government hasn't given themselves the right to tap your phone without a warrant. And while my anti-gun viewpoint is in a state of flux right now, it isn't like Americans have been using that right to bear arms to overthrow unjust and corrupt governments which is a large part of the amendment was for.
And while my anti-gun viewpoint is in a state of flux right now, it isn't like Americans have been using that right to bear arms to overthrow unjust and corrupt governments which is a large part of the amendment was for.
Historically, revolutions happen when awful conditions begin to improve, not when good conditions decline.
buzzvang wrote:Really? I thought that Supreme Court ruling last month actually strengthened the 2nd Amendment.
Shhh, you're interfering with the hysteria! :)
I just expect it to be an eventuality if the government continues to consolidate power into the executive/federal authorities and the citizenry continues to grow more restless. No hysteria about it.
The citizenry isn't all that restless. Most of the stuff people are panicking about losing didn't exist until the mid-1970s. There is a normal pendulum swing in U.S. political life from the point where the government is feared to the point where people fear it isn't powerful enough. Rights grow and then are trimmed back, then grow again. The one thing that never changes is the inflamed rhetoric by some and the endless slippery slope arguments.
I just expect it to be an eventuality if the government continues to consolidate power into the executive/federal authorities and the citizenry continues to grow more restless. No hysteria about it. :)
It's strange. Every time we reach a "bad" period in America, people seem to act like it's the first time ever.
As if the Red Scare, Vietnam, etc. never happened, and this stuff is all brand new.
The back-and-forth tug of war with power and liberties continues on and on. This period won't be the first or the last. It'll be yet another instance of "something happened, everyone overreacted, and eventually the pendulum went back the other way" for the history books.
Not that we should ever be complacent about it or take it for granted, but let's not act like this is anything but the latest instance of a long repeating pattern.
That pendulum idea is dumb. It's never been this bad before, never. If there is a pendulum, it's swung so far that it's in profound danger of snapping right off.
Umm, we used to round people up and put them in camps indefinitely depending on what they looked like. If you somehow think today is worse than that, maybe you need to get out more.
In 1988, Congress passed and President Ronald Reagan signed legislation which apologized for the internment on behalf of the U.S. government. The legislation stated that government actions were based on "race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership".
That pendulum idea is dumb. It's never been this bad before, never.
Sacco and Vanzetti and the members of the Church Committee might disagree.
Umm, we used to round people up and put them in camps indefinitely depending on what they looked like. If you somehow think today is worse than that, you need to get out more.
Never underestimate Malor's talent for hyperbole. It is truly a gift. 
Got to agree with Joe, Buzz and Funken on this one, Malor. It's never been worse in personal memory, I'll agree, but this is definitely not our darkest hour.
Don't forget that America is a nation built on stolen land with a government formed through a violent insurgency.
Hmm... over a hundred thousand U.S. citizens imprisoned because of their country of origin vs. one foreign national who was involved in a terrorist organization imprisoned.
Nope, looks like apples are still not citrus fruit.
Hmm... over a hundred thousand U.S. citizens imprisoned because of their country of origin vs. one foreign national who was involved in a terrorist organization imprisoned.
Nope, looks like apples are still not citrus fruit.
Today we just put them on the government watch list.
Sing it with me now-- "One million strong, and groooooowing!"
Ezra's certainly a bit right wing, I'll give you that. But were you aware, Parallax, that a priest in Alberta was fined and is being forced to write an apology for writing disparaging remarks about gays? A governmental agency is attempting to force a priest to recant his religious beliefs in public, and prevent him from ever saying anything to anyone that might be interpreted as against homosexuals.
Today we just put them on the government watch list.
Sing it with me now-- "One million strong, and groooooowing!"
Is that just U.S. citizens, or all air travelers? The U.S had over 50 million foreign visitors last year alone. I imagine any watch list covering the number of people who might want to come to the U.S. will be high given the potential number of visitors.
Ezra's certainly a bit right wing, I'll give you that. But were you aware, Parallax, that a priest in Alberta was fined and is being forced to write an apology for writing disparaging remarks about gays? A governmental agency is attempting to force a priest to recant his religious beliefs in public, and prevent him from ever saying anything to anyone that might be interpreted as against homosexuals.
Like I said, while I don't agree with Ezra Levant in general or his opinion of where civil liberties are here versus the US, I agree that the CHRCs are not doing what they were intended for and by suppressing free speech in the name of political correctness, they are going way over the line. I think the priest should be smacked for his ignorant opinions but he should be free to express those opinions. But to compare even that to where things are in the US just doesn't work. It's not even close.
You can point at many individual errors that have been made through the history of the United States, but never before have so many been made at the same time.
It's particularly egregious because we can point to those periods in our history where we really f*cked it up, have passed resolutions saying we f*cked it up, and yet we're doing it again, and in nearly every case, much more than before. The sole exception is the mass imprisonment of the Japanese, which was a terrible crime. The fact that we've made one really enormous mistake, though, doesn't let us off the hook for the incredible number we're making now. And, as bad as that was, it's also worth pointing out that we suspended civil liberties during a war with a large nation, not because of 250 guys in turbans and driving technicals.
Even in WW2, we weren't knowingly torturing innocent people as a state-sanctioned endeavor.
The pendulum has swung so far that I strongly doubt that any amount of peaceful protest by the citizens will ever make it swing back. We simply have ceded too much power to the authoritarians; they have so much that they're essentially impervious to public opinion, able to infiltrate and dismantle any citizen groups they deem too threatening.
You can point at many individual errors that have been made through the history of the United States, but never before have so many been made at the same time.
Dude, America had slavery one time. Slavery. This is a thread about the government maybe, possibly, somehow censoring the Internet, maybe.
Sometimes it is ok to say, "yeah, I got carried away and was exaggerating to make a point. Sorry, my bad."
Malor, please, just stop digging. Someone will be along with a ladder shortly. Besides, it's not "peaceful protest" that causes the pendulum to swing the other way. It's the reactions of a new generation coming to power, a generation that grew up during one extreme and thinks the way to solve everything is a firm shove in the opposite direction.
No, I don't think that's going to happen, Lobster. The "new generation" (mine) can't find its ass with both hands and a flashlight.
The pendulum idea is something to console yourself with. It's a sop to pretend that things aren't really as bad as they are. My parents were talking about that pendulum thing more than thirty years ago.
Malor... do you understand the concept of a pendulum? It swings more than once.
It has not been a pendulum in my adult life. It has gone only one way. At this point, it's gone so far that what the citizens think is pretty much irrelevant, so I see no path for a return swing.
The New Deal pendulum swung one way for what, almost 50 years? And the Republicans have turned that around handily in the last 20 years. No reason for it not to start swinging back, except for intransigence on the part of the parties.
The New Deal pendulum swung one way for what, almost 50 years? And the Republicans have turned that around handily in the last 20 years. No reason for it not to start swinging back, except for intransigence on the part of the parties.
Chunks of the New Deal were repealed *during* the New Deal. Conservatives fought it from day one. It was mostly the populist ideas, like Social Security, that survived.
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