Too Human Catch-All

stevenmack wrote:

So...just finished the single player campaign. Some quick thoughts while spore installs...

- I'm still enjoying the game and will be going back to get my character to 50, try a few other character classes, etc. For all its flaws I'm definitely getting my moneys worth out of it.

- I really didn't die very often at all while playing the game. (a couple of times on the ice forest chapter and that's pretty much it I think). Admittedly I did go back to the first map a couple of times over the course of the games for a bit of extra lewt, but overall I seem to have avoided the pains of the slow death animation, at least with this character.

- I REALLY wish they could go back and optimise the inventory screen. It gets agonisingly slow to navigate once you've got a lot of gear, runes, etc.

This is when you turn smart loot off and put it on atleast blue. At 48 I bumped it up to purple, since I only care about orange and red.

- I would have liked a little more 'complex' crafting involved, rather than just "pay x cash to create the item". It just feels like a deliberate money sink.

Eh - what else would you use bounty for? 35ish+ you have more than you need anyway.

- The charm/rune system on the other hand I think works really well and changed the way I was playing the game completely once I figured out how they worked.

Yep. Really powerful once you "get it". I just wish we could carry more, especially charms.

Anyone know what the XBL update I just downloaded was for? Notice any changes/fixes/new content? Is there a place to find this stuff out?

Yep. Really powerful once you "get it". I just wish we could carry more, especially charms.

Totally agree - extremely annoying having to dump a few half-finished ones every now and again to make room.

Anyone know what the XBL update I just downloaded was for? Notice any changes/fixes/new content? Is there a place to find this stuff out?

I noticed that too. Can't see any immediate differences while playing though, and the downloads part of the shop is still empty.

Denis Dyack posted on Too Human.net that the update was for connective issues, and did not change any gameplay.

Huzzah, that update allows me to host games online now. I could be invited to other people games before, but now I can actually create them myself as well.

Just finished the single-player campaign with a human defender. Quite fun! I'm looking forward to playing more, and do hope that they're able to do the sequel(s). The unique controls are interesting, and if they can take some of the feedback they've gotten and tighten things up, that would be excellent. On learning advanced combat techniques: The first area really ought to have environmental challenges that make you learn this stuff. A door you have to juggle open, etc. Something so that explanatory text is paid attention to. On the long "levels": If there was an obvious cue when you gain a token, that would be a very good thing. There are good well-paced milestones, it seems—but you never realize they're there, so the levels just seem to go on and on and on.

Maybe I missed it, but are tokens related to charms? If not what are they and what are they for?

inspiringsn wrote:

Maybe I missed it, but are tokens related to charms? If not what are they and what are they for?

Tokens just denote your progress through a chapter, like checkpoints. They also determine how much loot the boss drops at the end of the chapter. Fight just the boss bypassing the whole chapter and he drops jack squat. Clear the whole thing and fight him with all the tokens and you get much more loot.

Some charms do require tokens as their charm quest, too. I honestly only started paying attention to when they occurred when I got a charm I wanted that had that quest. Unfortunately, the only real way to know when you've gotten one is to check your character stats in the menu.

I believe the first area has three tokens, while the other three areas have five tokens.

Ah I see, thank you.

Sinatar wrote:
inspiringsn wrote:

Maybe I missed it, but are tokens related to charms? If not what are they and what are they for?

Tokens just denote your progress through a chapter, like checkpoints. They also determine how much loot the boss drops at the end of the chapter. Fight just the boss bypassing the whole chapter and he drops jack squat. Clear the whole thing and fight him with all the tokens and you get much more loot.

Also just to note, tokens also increase the chance for red item drops.

So do tokens accumulate so that I can get the same token multiple times to help with drops or do they just sort of disappear after you beat the boss?

Tokens are the same as checkpoints. You get a token for completing a section of the game. You don't do anything with them and they don't appear in your inventory. Some charms use tokens are requirements, for example, "Get 12 tokens in Hall of Heroes" means you need to run Hall of Heroes 4 times.

I usually salvage charms that require section tokens. However, if I must get them, I run Hall of Heroes and skip the secret areas.

inspiringsn wrote:

So do tokens accumulate so that I can get the same token multiple times to help with drops or do they just sort of disappear after you beat the boss?

No, you can't get multiple tokens stacked up like you're describing, and the tokens for an area won't reset until you clear them all, iirc.

You can still exploit the checkpoint system in co-op, to get all the tokens and skip a lot of content, but you need to know the level really well. A major portion of the 4th level can be skipped if you know what trips the first checkpoint, then back out to Aesir and start at 4-2 after tripping the token.

Yahtzee didn't like it. Shocker.

Summary of my disagreements with Yahtzee:

1) Baldr's badassitude is not inappropriate, given when the game is set. SPOILER: [color=#F9F9F9]Since this is after the beginning of Ragnarok, Baldr has returned to life. There's at least no reason to believe he will not have been changed by his death. Also, he will rule in the new world to come.[/color] On the subject of Baldr's mother asking everything in the world to not hurt him, SPOILER: [color=#F9F9F9]I just have to say (with regard to the golden bough), "You have found my fatal weakness, BULLETS" is so appropriate here. Anyway, this is hardly relevant, since as I noted before, the entire game occurs after Baldr's death and rebirth—so I'm not sure whether Yahtzee actually played through the whole game.[/color]

2) The right analog stick: On the one hand, yeah... On the other hand, it certainly makes melee combat a lot different, and I can't say that's a bad thing. Still, it's an unusual design choice, and I can see why it would inspire hate. I'm not sure about the mention of being slow and pausing in combat, though, and "melee combat...flows like a river of bricks"... This, again, makes me think that Yahtzee didn't play the game for all that long, since, well... everybody but the commando and the bio-engineer will be zooming around like a greased weasel on crack pretty quickly. (And see below about Bio-Engineer and Commando.)

3) "The only available ammunition is pease and bits of tissue paper". I played co-op with a friend who was using a commando the other night. Holy crap. I thought I was doing okay with my laser rifle on my defender as a back-up weapon. A commando with a plasma-cannon is a real room-clearer, though. Non-ranged specialists are mostly going to have ranged weapons as a back-up, though, and rely on melee (greased crack weasel!) The BE gets to cure the incurable status ailments mentioned a little later, but that's easy to miss.

4) Valkyrie: yeah, that's pants. Although the "no penalties" only applies if you, y'know, aren't actually building up any combo meter levels (which might explain why he thought everything was super-slow.)

5) Dammit. I must be purged.

etc. etc. Anyway, I do like Yahtzee's reviews, even when he's wrong. ;> Just wanted to rebut a bit in case somebody watches the ZP review and then looks here.

I borrowed a friend's copy, and I fairly enjoyed the first level with my Commando. Now I'm slightly into level 2 and I've kind of hit an apathetic wall, where the game is just not quite enjoyable enough to warrant my attention over other games/anything else I could be doing. I got trapped in a room by the shockingly buggy squad AI and decided to call it a day...

Heh. That happened to me once, too. Probably the same room.

LobsterMobster wrote:

Yahtzee didn't like it. Shocker.

I enjoy Yahtzee's reviews, and understand he is skewed towards harping on a game's bad points (as he said in the Bioshock review: "Nobody likes it when I am nice to a game"), but I honestly wondered when I was watching if he was playing the same game I am.

"Combat flows like a river of bricks? "That's an odd one to hear. Even with a level 1 combo meter you can zip around pretty fast.

"The guns shoot peas and tissue paper?" Again, another odd one to hear. While guns won't one hit/one kill a guy (unless you are a high level commando like my friend), they never felt underpowered to me. Heck, last night I was playing co-op with my friend who was 20 levels higher than me, and I was blowing level 58 Troll's arms off with my level 30 Bio-Engineer's laser rifle (granted, it took some time).

"Camera issues?" I really don't understand this one. I have never had a problem with the camera that a quick tap of the left bumper couldn't fix. If you played through Ninja Gaiden 2, you should have no problems with this camera.

"No penalty for death?". There is a penalty, but I don't fault him for not seeing it. The price to fix high level orange and red armor after taking damage from death can get quite steep in the later levels. I cringe when I hit the ground with my level 50 Champion because I probably just lost 20-30K across all my weapons and armor due to the damage I just incurred.

He did have some good points though, and I did agree with quite a bit he said.

The more I play Too Human, the more I think this mentality behind the game was to put as much depth into as possible through gameplay, skills, and armor upgrades, and skimp on the information on how it all works in order to make the release date. The game desperately needs tutorials on how things like the combo meter work and its effects, finishers, rune upgrades, and a database on what each rune effect is. The little blue screens of information you bring up in random areas really do not cut it. Too much is left to the player to discover on their own, and its easy to see why people can get frustrated and dismissive of the game after only a few hours of play. The depth of the game really does not come to light until you are past level 30 and start having to use spiders, battle cries, proper rune upgrades, and tactics to clear a room.

J wrote:

I honestly wondered when I was watching if he was playing the same game I am.

I thought the same thing in the Soul Calibur 4 review, which does make me wonder about all the not-nice things he says about games that I haven't played. Seems to me that for however funny he is, he goes into a game wanting to hate it and won't let it try to prove him wrong.

yahtzee is good at what he does, but he's also predictable. He's stated before that he doesn't like loot games, mmorpgs, or fighters, or multiplayer games. As long as you keep that in mind, you know which games to take with a grain of salt.

He complained about Soul Calibur 4's story for god's sake.

I think that's valid. The story DOES suck. The part that bugged me was that he said the game was extremely easy when he clearly didn't even touch the Tower mode.

I just got this from GameFly and played it for a few hours last night and got up to level 19 with my defender. Seeing as how I've done zero research on the game and the rental doesn't come with a manual I'm completely clueless on how most things in this game work. I've basically been flailing around just smashing everything that charged at me and equipping whatever has the highest number. Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed flailing around, I just know there's gotta be more to it. And so far, yeah, I see the complaints about the story being convoluted but if you try really, really hard you can almost make it make sense. At one point I was kind of reminded of the first time I watched Blade Runner. That movie confused the heck out of me the first time around but on subsequent viewings I suddenly "got it". Maaaaaybe this game will have that feel for me or maybe the plot really is just a load of garbage. Only time will tell.

I just got done with my first play through this weekend with a Champion. The game did have some annoyances but overall I really liked it. I am a self admitted loot whore and I have been hooked on Diablo II several times in the past.

Anyway I am really looking forward to trying out co-op now. I just read a bunch of the past posts and a bunch of the information(especially stuff from coyo7e and Shoal07) really has me excited to play on and experience the higher level goodness.

I must admit that I was very confused with all the runes/charms business and I didn't take the time to really learn what I was supposed to do.

I don't have a ton of time to game these days but I usually squeeze in a few nights a week. Please feel free to send me a friend request of you would like to play some co-op.
Gamertag = Andy2Pi

Thanks

Is there any site that explains what the different ruiner types do?

I'm sure this game's reception would have been substantially better if there was somewhere to go that explains all these gameplay features in detail. There's a lot of depth to this game but I have no idea how most of it works!

I don't know how much info it might have nor how useful, but you could try Too Human wiki.

The key things that should be explained better:

1) Exactly what the "tap right stick" thing meant for juggling. Turns out it means to quickly push in the direction twice. I kept trying to push down the thumbstick to do this. And, it's kind of important later in the game.

2) How to get back into campaign mode after leaving it. (Answer: Quit and then select continue campaign.) It tells you that you're leaving campaign mode and you can come back, but it isn't really clear on the coming back part.

3) Exactly how different polarity enemies work. Also, it should be easier to tell what polarities things are. Is that a softening troll and a frost troll I see? Yeah. Going to be visiting ye olde Valkyrie a few times. I'm still a little unclear on exactly how charged vs. uncharged negative polarities work.

4) What all of the various modifiers provided by runes can mean, especially the higher-powered ones. (What exactly does "Ablative Shield +10%" do? It's an orange socket effect that came with a red piece of level 30 armor I found. I assume it's pretty good, but I have no idea, honestly.)

5) Exactly what the benefits and drawbacks of each class are, in detail. I only realized that other classes besides defender (the first I played very high with) could slide in air combat after reading this thread in detail. The game should have at least mentioned "can't do air combat well" as a drawback of the class.

6) Likewise, how the benefits of various weapon types work. I had no idea for a long time that the different weapon types have different fierce attacks. (Hammer is AWESOME, by the way.) I still don't know whether the "damage" number shown on the equipment screen accounts for weapon speed in any way. If you have a 2H weapon that does 2000 damage is that the same damage output as a DW weapon that does 2000 damage?

There are also a few basic UI issues that annoy me. For example, you can't change which charms you have equipped while in cyberspace. However, you can delete them to free up space for a better one if your inventory is full. Only... you can't see the symbols on them because of the giant red lock symbol over the top of each of them, which makes trying to figure out which charm you should throw out to get a different one to fill into a level 2 charm kind of... annoying.

Anyway, none of these things are insurmountable—and for a person like me who likes to figure things out, they can even be fun. But for most people, they should have gone to a little bit more effort to give a gentle introduction.

A centralized loot system would be nice, or at least a common bank for all characters so that you can trade items between your own characters would've been nice. Though I think this may have been mentioned already in this thread.

Too Human sold 168,000 copies in it's first month. That's $10 million in sales. Not bad, not great. I predict a strong drop off from here, this isn't a game that will steamroll its way through X-mas.

souldaddy wrote:

Too Human sold 168,000 copies in it's first month. That's $10 million in sales. Not bad, not great. I predict a strong drop off from here, this isn't a game that will steamroll its way through X-mas.

That's pretty good. Were there any adverts on TV and stuff? I didn't see any over here in the UK. I wonder how much of an impact the 'Dyack effect' had on the general public...