Too Human Catch-All

coyo7e wrote:

Also, use polarity enemies to YOUR advantage as well. Most of them hurt their own allies with their attacks and death explosions, and if you launch and roll away or shoot them with the correct type fo ranged (you are carrying a laser slug and plasma ranged weapon AT ALL TIMES, right?) it's hilariously easy to mop up huge piles of enemies, or take out otherwise "impossible" opponents such as trolls that are immune to ranged but slow+freeze you when you get close.

Maybe that's my problem. I haven't been shooting them at all. Which ranged weapon types am I supposed to use versus each? How can I tell which ones are Dark Polarity?

coyo7e wrote:

Also, if you aren't abusing Fierce attacks, then it's no wonder you hate fighting bosses with a Berserker. ;)

I don't have issues with the bosses. I have issues with the fights where health orbs don't drop for a long time, because I'm not killing the dark-green-dudes-with-purple-pulse-guns fast enough. Are you saying I should use the Fierce attack (blue ranged attack, LS+RS from afar) against Trolls (pictured in the original post)? I try to use Fierce against the glowing white ice-freeze robots but if I'm next to some other mob then it can't be used. I guess I should roll away first.

Yoyoson wrote:
coyo7e wrote:

Also, use polarity enemies to YOUR advantage as well. Most of them hurt their own allies with their attacks and death explosions, and if you launch and roll away or shoot them with the correct type fo ranged (you are carrying a laser slug and plasma ranged weapon AT ALL TIMES, right?) it's hilariously easy to mop up huge piles of enemies, or take out otherwise "impossible" opponents such as trolls that are immune to ranged but slow+freeze you when you get close.

Maybe that's my problem. I haven't been shooting them at all. Which ranged weapon types am I supposed to use versus each? How can I tell which ones are Dark Polarity?

coyo7e wrote:

Also, if you aren't abusing Fierce attacks, then it's no wonder you hate fighting bosses with a Berserker. ;)

I don't have issues with the bosses. I have issues with the fights where health orbs don't drop for a long time, because I'm not killing the dark-green-dudes-with-purple-pulse-guns fast enough. Are you saying I should use the Fierce attack (blue ranged attack, LS+RS from afar) against Trolls (pictured in the original post)? I try to use Fierce against the glowing white ice-freeze robots but if I'm next to some other mob then it can't be used. I guess I should roll away first.

I have no idea what half the polarities are, but I've just learned from experience which ones to watch out for. There are some normal-ish looking goblins all over level 2 that appear in big groups, if you shoot them with plasma or lasers they start glowing orange but take no damage, then explode at a pindrop. They also cool back down, so they're a very manageable enemy.

Remember that plasma does splash damage, which makes it easily the best overall for shooting down missiles and dealing with large packs of monsters, as well as breaking armor on trolls since it can hit multiple areas at once.

I recommend ALWAYS having your damage meter up, because it's easy to waste a bunch of time shooting an enemy then realize they're only taking 2 damage per shot.

And using Fierce Attacks on trolls is a bad idea, they just never hit. Jump up and do a finisher will break most of their armor, and two finishers can break their arm off if you didn't shoot it first. Plasma and lasers work best against most trolls, but there are exceptions. Fierce Attacks are stupidly overpowered on big piles of tough enemies though, and the berserker';s Fierce attack hits ridiculously hard.

Sinatar wrote:
Yoyoson wrote:

Did anyone run into a disease/poison weapon on the second level? It seems that sometimes after one of the Light Polarity monsters hits me with his rockets, I become surrounded by an explosion cloud. At least it looks like an explosion, because it starts orange and fades to black and it does this every 2 seconds until I die or return to Aesir through the start menu. I think getting hit with rockets again may also reset it. Most likely it's a bug, but I'm open to the possibility that they put an uncurable, never-fading poison effect into a game where you can't heal yourself.

Nah it's a status effect. Means you're on fire. It'll fade, but it takes like 2 minutes and generally will take you to half health from full. Bioengineers can clear it (and all other negative effects).

So if you're already below half health and you have it at the end of a fight, then it's basically a death sentence. The only way you can save yourself is by looking for containers with health orbs or by going into another fight. There's no guarantee that you'll find health orbs in containers, so I guess you have to fight.

EDIT: I am looking forward to going back into the brawl tonight with the strategies you guys have laid out for me.

Yoyoson wrote:

Nah it's a status effect. Means you're on fire. It'll fade, but it takes like 2 minutes and generally will take you to half health from full. Bioengineers can clear it (and all other negative effects).

I've played more than 30 hours co-op now, and most of that time has been with my BioEngineer. In that time most of the people I've played with have basically assumed that I can heal them super easily and remove their debuffs at the drop of a hat, and some of them have even played a BioE in solo so they think they understand how unkillable they are.

They are wrong.

BioEngineers almost always use Combo to heal and remove debuffs, and in co-op a Bio can't move as fast shoot as far or kill as quickly as his teammates so it's really REALLY difficult in many areas to keep enough combo meter to even cast ONE heal, let alone the 3 or four that a teammate will need to stay alive through a 45 second fight with a couple tough enemies or if they're sloppy around polarity goblins.

The funnest co-op I've had was with two BioEngineers in the same party, since our passive regen was really noticeable when stacked. Close second would be Commando, followed by a Defender. The rest jsut kill too fast, and while the commando kiills too fast as well, he never gets hurt so it's allright.

Both Human and Cyber are very viable for BioEngineers.

My original point was that healing and/or surviving poison and other debuffs is not really easy for ANY class (unless you take a 2 minute break after every fight with your bio, to passively regen,) and then I went off on a BioE tangent..

Awesome tip : push right on the d-pad to bring up a damage meter. Very helpful.

Yoyoson wrote:

Maybe that's my problem. I haven't been shooting them at all. Which ranged weapon types am I supposed to use versus each? How can I tell which ones are Dark Polarity?

Light polarities are the really bright enemies. You can and should shoot these as soon as you see them, do not melee.

Dark polarities are enemies that have colored accents but the overall skin is muted. If you shoot them, you'll "charge" them up and they'll start to glow even brighter than light polarities. Generally dark polarities are immune to all gun fire. The easiest way to deal with them is, if your damage meter shows really low damage, attack them at range with a fierce attack.

Reviewers?

I was a reviewer for about a year and a half during the .com boom.

One thing that you become quite fast when you play games for a living is become jaded and very difficult to impress.

Reviewers always take the ''been there, done that'' approach to their reviews. What's innovation? you tell me.

How fun is a game when you're 'forced' to play it? Is it possible you were not the best candidate to review this particular title? Is it possible you played too many hack n slash but that most people have not?

souldaddy wrote:

Awesome tip : push right on the d-pad to bring up a damage meter. Very helpful.

Yoyoson wrote:

Maybe that's my problem. I haven't been shooting them at all. Which ranged weapon types am I supposed to use versus each? How can I tell which ones are Dark Polarity?

Light polarities are the really bright enemies. You can and should shoot these as soon as you see them, do not melee.

Dark polarities are enemies that have colored accents but the overall skin is muted. If you shoot them, you'll "charge" them up and they'll start to glow even brighter than light polarities. Generally dark polarities are immune to all gun fire. The easiest way to deal with them is, if your damage meter shows really low damage, attack them at range with a fierce attack.

Dark Enemies aren't so much immune to ranged fire. They absorb plasma and laser fire and glow, and then if you hit them they EXPLODE and kill everything nearby, friend and foe alike.

It maeks them very valuable to keep track of, since they make excellent grenades with a half second plasma blast and a double-tap launch toward the nearest Troll or pile of bad guys..!

If you are going after a troll I find it is easiest to fly up to them square on and melee them (you could use a finisher) and then just try to get behind them and hop on their backs. This second part can be a huge pain if they are up against a wall or other enemies OR is another troll is using their hammer along with the first. But rolling is your friend, especially against trolls and the spider-like enemies.

Mounting trolls at lvl 50 is almost impossible. Stupid things get their turn speed jacked way up so they spin as fast as you can run around them. This makes getting behind them a nightmare (unless you're in coop of course).

Sinatar wrote:

Mounting trolls at lvl 50 is almost impossible. Stupid things get their turn speed jacked way up so they spin as fast as you can run around them. This makes getting behind them a nightmare (unless you're in coop of course).

So, what you're saying is it takes two people to mount a troll - one to distract them while the other jumps on his back? I guess you could also try this method:

Let's just uhhhh .... link to the cow sex. Ok? - Certis

GameTrailers Review

They give it a 6.5, with a 5.0 in gameplay (ouch). Other interesting things:

- They say it's a mix of Norse Mythology and... Steampunk? Did I miss something?
- During an entire segment they discreetly play music from Eternal Darkness.

I'ma still get it eventually. Anyone know if the Defender is unlocked in the demo yet?

LobsterMobster wrote:

Anyone know if the Defender is unlocked in the demo yet?

If not legitimately, it should be really easy to get it. I think it was unlocked by now anyway.

From the demo, I saw a lot about the reviews that I disagreed with, the demo does a great job getting the essence of the game across: if you liked the demo, despite the obvious flaws, then you'll like the game. I personally feel that the game is worth a "standard console game" price: not as polished as Bioshock, but much more replay value. The one thing I saw in reviews that I couldn't confirm or deny from the demo was the lack of variety of enemies. They basically approach enemies the same way they approached loot: Basic + + , where Modifier and Special are things like "Ranged", "Artillery" and "Exploding","Elite","Freezing". There are at least 4 other Basic monsters in the full game beyond the Goblins and Troll in the demo (Dark Elves, Spiders, Zombies, Ghouls), and the Bosses are slight departures from these, but nothing dramatically different.

Was there ever a reason given why 4 player co-op was cut down to 2?

I finally got around to completing the last level in single player last night. I very much hope that the game does well enough to warrant Microsoft funding a sequel, because there is a lot of potential here.

Now to see if I can get a character up to 50 before the fall rush starts next week.

Edit:

Dr._J wrote:

Was there ever a reason given why 4 player co-op was cut down to 2?

I'd guess they didn't have time to make the netcode solid enough to support it. As it is, you can get some weird stuff happening with just two players. It certainly looks like they either had hopes of being able to patch it in or had no time to properly retool the game, because everything about the game design screams "meant to be played with 4 players."

Shoal07 wrote:

Let's just uhhhh .... link to the cow sex. Ok? - Certis

See, I knew that picture would disturb me, I just knew it. And yet...

I've never been able to get the character selection cheat to work.

Parallax Abstraction wrote:
Shoal07 wrote:

Let's just uhhhh .... link to the cow sex. Ok? - Certis

See, I knew that picture would disturb me, I just knew it. And yet...

The best part of it is: two bulls

It's a pic that symbolizes the fact that not everyone who shows up when you're in trouble is there to help you.

LobsterMobster wrote:

I've never been able to get the character selection cheat to work. :(

I only ever got it to work once, and it wasn't really worth the effort imho. The defender and Boengineer are both equally weak slow and boring at the game start though, so i wouldn't really bother with them until co-op, although both have bonuses that help in singleplayer play. Once the Defender and BioE get over elvel 20 they get better, but they're pretty obnoxiously weak and slow at first.

I played a berserker in co-op last night and

zeroKFE wrote:

I finally got around to completing the last level in single player last night. I very much hope that the game does well enough to warrant Microsoft funding a sequel, because there is a lot of potential here.

Now to see if I can get a character up to 50 before the fall rush starts next week.

I was able to get a character to mid 40s in a couple days of heavy playing over the weekend.

Atras wrote:
LobsterMobster wrote:

Anyone know if the Defender is unlocked in the demo yet?

If not legitimately, it should be really easy to get it. I think it was unlocked by now anyway.

From the demo, I saw a lot about the reviews that I disagreed with, the demo does a great job getting the essence of the game across: if you liked the demo, despite the obvious flaws, then you'll like the game. I personally feel that the game is worth a "standard console game" price: not as polished as Bioshock, but much more replay value. The one thing I saw in reviews that I couldn't confirm or deny from the demo was the lack of variety of enemies. They basically approach enemies the same way they approached loot: Basic + + , where Modifier and Special are things like "Ranged", "Artillery" and "Exploding","Elite","Freezing". There are at least 4 other Basic monsters in the full game beyond the Goblins and Troll in the demo (Dark Elves, Spiders, Zombies, Ghouls), and the Bosses are slight departures from these, but nothing dramatically different.

I was playing as a berserker alst night in co-op, and honestly it comes the closest to making me agree with the reviews about sloppy controls, monotonous boring combat that never changes, etc. Of course, then I started dying constantly so I ahd to start rolling and dodging and juggling, but just spinnnig the R Stick in random half-circles to 1-shot all the enemies, does get old quickly.

That said, if you enjoy the demo you'll really be surprised by how different the full game is, and all the ways are positive, imho.

And there are about a dozen kinds of enemies in the game if you count the separate types of goblins and trolls as individual types, and once you get a hang for recognizing the polarities and stuff, I LOVE using the dark/light enemies in level 2 as mobile grenades, by warming them up with my energy rifles then launching them into enemies.

I guess I'm just getting old, and I've never been particularly good at fast action games, but I just can't seem to understand how you guys can react fast enough to "use" the polarity enemies as mobile grenades and stuff. I'm too busy just trying to stay alive, or at least weaken stuff as much as possible between visits from the Valkyries. I played through what I think is the majority of the ice forest level last night, and damn, I don't even see how it would be possible to get through there without dying. There were multiple, back to back areas with multiple trolls + spiders + rocket goblins + polarities. I think I died about 4 times in a 5 minute span during one of those.

Khoram wrote:

I guess I'm just getting old, and I've never been particularly good at fast action games, but I just can't seem to understand how you guys can react fast enough to "use" the polarity enemies as mobile grenades and stuff. I'm too busy just trying to stay alive, or at least weaken stuff as much as possible between visits from the Valkyries. I played through what I think is the majority of the ice forest level last night, and damn, I don't even see how it would be possible to get through there without dying. There were multiple, back to back areas with multiple trolls + spiders + rocket goblins + polarities. I think I died about 4 times in a 5 minute span during one of those.

Yes, the ice forest is long AND hard - It's one of the reasons I believe there should have been more levels. I think the ice forest should have been broken up into 2 or 3 levels. And what's the deal with the intro cinematic? Tanks galore and then... no tanks through the entire level. Not even in the background. As far as polarities go - double tap R. The air launch attack will send them flying, usually away from you and towards the incoming onslaught. Just spam it and you'll have polarities exploding everywhere but on you. It should be second nature after a while - see a close polarity and instant air launch spam.

Story - I've heard lots of complaints about the story and I must add my own. Now, maybe I'm not the best test subject because I actually know something about Norse mythology, but i don't find the story confusing. As a matter of fact, it's similar to what I would expect (Loki is a douchebag - check). However, there are obvious plot lines and story archs that seem to be trimmed down or chopped completely. I imagine at one time this was loaded with story but chopped for some reason. This leaves things poorly explained and a seemingly random jump from story arch to story arch. If you didn't come into the game knowing the key players and stuff like the world tree, titans (also called giants in the game), and the weird, you're probably just ignoring this mess and skipping the cutscenes by level 3 (and I can't blame you).

I think the pre-conception that a video game was going to be a trilogy is responsible for this mess, for multiple reasons. This is a mistake. Video game trilogies should evolve, not be pre-planned. Sure, it might work for some, but I think Too Human shows several reasons why this is a bad practice.

Make the first game the best game possible and maybe you'll do well enough for a sequel - don't assume you're greatness before it is levied upon you.

Well, I respec'd and am having a bit more fun with this.
So far, I can sum up the entire game in:

It's like Diablo, only it sucks.

The $10 I paid to rent it is about right. I might be persuaded to buy it for $15, but as the guy from Dubious Quality says, I can get Fate for $20.

But Fate doesn't let you be a bald space marine.

LobsterMobster wrote:

But Fate doesn't let you be a bald space marine.

I'm honestly not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing..

zeroKFE wrote:

I'd guess they didn't have time to make the netcode solid enough to support it. As it is, you can get some weird stuff happening with just two players. It certainly looks like they either had hopes of being able to patch it in or had no time to properly retool the game, because everything about the game design screams "meant to be played with 4 players."

Hey everyone, new guy here giving his $.02

I think that it may have been more of an engine issue, keep in mind that they ditched the Unreal Engine in favor of developing their own pretty late in development (wasn't it within the last year?).
The frame rate really chugs when the action gets hot, and the more players you have, the more has to be going on at once, I don't think the engine they (hastily) built can keep up.

Yeah, given the way they scale things up I can only imagine how busy it would get with four players.

Khoram wrote:

I guess I'm just getting old, and I've never been particularly good at fast action games, but I just can't seem to understand how you guys can react fast enough to "use" the polarity enemies as mobile grenades and stuff.

It's not just you. I think it's a weakness of the game, it get's very frantic too quickly. Some encounters require a very specific solution, otherwise you'll die over and over.

Silicon Knights once said they were hoping to appeal to the "action guy" as well as the "rpg loot guy." I think the rpg loot guy can't succeed without being action-y. I like this sort of thing, but it does limit the appeal.

I have some serious issues with this game. I'll be posting impressions once I'm finished this last boss fight which at this point I've probably spent a good two hours on as a Berserker. I'm not impressed.

I'm finding the Berserker SUCKS for single player. I hit the 100 deaths achievement. Wheee ... eee?

Yeah as much as I love action RPG/loot whoring, especially with pretty graphics and mythology to boot, I don't think I have the leet action skills necessary to get through this game without dying so much as to kill any excitement I have for finishing or rolling new characters. I think I'm going to trade it in for store credit to apply towards Warhammer, which is ironic, since I suck at pvp about as much as I suck at twitch action games. Mr. Gamestop must love idiots like me, putting his kids through college with my never-ending buying/trade-in habits.

Certis wrote:

I'm finding the Berserker SUCKS for single player. I hit the 100 deaths achievement. Wheee ... eee?

Yeah, they are pretty much the personification of a glass cannon. I was playing co-op last night with a friend of mine who was a level 47 Berserker, and I was a lowly 32 Champion. All the mobs scaled to his level (45 and higher). While my friend was able to slaughter them with impunity, he died alot more than me, who was 15 levels below him with armor to match.

I think the biggest thing people have to realize about Berserkers is that they should not be standing on the front lines dishing hits and taking them. They remind me alot of the Assassin class from Guild Wars: Pack a hell of a punch, but are as soft as wet cardboard at times.

My best tip is try to be constantly sliding all over the place. Hit the leader of a group of mobs, then slide away from them into another, then slide to the left of that one etc. etc. I don't think Berserkers should be stationary for very long, especially in the higher levels.

Also, don't forget about juggling guys in the air. You can launch someone into the air, wail on them, and then slide to another mob while in mid air. I do this tactic frequently with my Champion and it has gotten me out of some tight spots.