20 to 1 Pirate to Sale Ratio?

Blackadar wrote:

Nice try in avoiding the issue.

The only one avoiding the issue is you. It's been re-iterated to you several times that we're talking about pirating a game you didn't pay for, and repeatedly stating"right or wrong is so relative" serves as a great post-modern discussion for a bunch of stoners and not much else. Continuously saying "Is it not okay for someone to use a crack on their legally obtained game?" is ridiculous when it's clear that's not what we're talking about at all and trying to shoehorn that into a discussion about people who download games because they don't want to pay for it means you're the one who's failing to comprehend the shades of gray in morality.

Blackadar wrote:

(just FYI, that's the wrong tense)

Really? You're going to stoop to making snarky grammatical comments? FAIL indeed.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that my PC is cleaner than 95% of all the PCs out there when it comes to such things. I think I may have about 25 MP3s I didn't pay for (well, I did...that's kinda the point), but that's it. I have no software, no pictures, no movies, nada that I can't produce the originals for. So remember you're debating the moral justification for this with someone who is pretty clean on such things.

As Kuddles has said, no one was talking about games you already own. We were talking about piracy hurting game sales, where people are choosing to download "0day" software without paying for it. Most of your 35 talking points don't really have much to do with the discussion at hand.

My comments, using mostly the impersonal "you" to refer to anyone who downloads things they didn't pay for, still stand: As far as I'm concerned, I don't care WHAT you do. Downloading files is between you and your personal god (and maybe your local RIAA/MPAA affiliate), and if you (again, there's that impersonal you) are cool doing what you're doing, there's nothing else to say.

*I* personally don't want to hear the list of reasons why doing so is "justified."

Let's say Joe Blo buys a game. He then takes that game home, cracks the copy protection wide open, and then tosses it up on a torrent tracker. John Doe decides to download that game using that torrent tracker. John Doe hasn't bought the game. John Doe plays through the whole game, from beginning to end, and still doesn't buy the game.

What's your moral position on that one, Blackadar? What is there for John Doe to object to? The price of the game? He's got no right to the game in the first place, and cutting into a company's profits is no way to get them to lower prices.

Is he objecting to the copy protection used? Well, guess what, once again, he doesn't have a right to the game in the first place. Keep in mind, John Doe never buys the game in this scenario.

That is what we're talking about here. Not some justification for downloading something because it makes it more convenient or serviceable for the end user, who actually purchased something in the first place.

We're done here. See you in two months when this flares up again.

Feel free to copy and paste from this thread as necessary.