@ Roguelike games

I got a Perk that gave me like 6 or 8 jointed spider legs that let me cling to walls and the ceiling while moving, and attacked anything that came within reach. That was... bizarre. But the more fun was the thunderstorm/electrified combo. The latter makes you immune to electric damage, but electrifies conductors in your area. That puts out shocks almost across the entire screen in liquids. So I could fill an area below me with water, pull a few enemies, and jump in - BZAAAAAPPPPP! And that is an environment kill, seems like, so more gold.

Thunderstorms are great for putting out fires, obvs. But that can be lifesaving in the second or third cave...

Just had my deepest run yet, 989m courtesy of teleportitis. Teleport randomly in the level every time you take damage. I had a huge circular saw projectile and I went around firing it after dipping myself in acid. Slaughtered all sorts of things, but could not get most of the gold. Finally died after teleporting into a sealed container of acid...

Huh how did I miss this thread for years?

Stele wrote:

Huh how did I miss this thread for years?

This forum software is kinda garbage and makes discovery way more challenging than it needs to be?

The Noita daily today is particularly tasty.

Evidently, I am a glutton for punishment. Picked up Hades and Jupiter Hell today.

Both of which are quite tasty.

So Noita has morphed into a thinking stealth shooter. Each enemy has it's own style, and they interact in random combinations as you go deeper (within the type variation for each level). You have to learn how each behaves, and what it can do, before you can really master a level type. Then you have the different weapon, spell and trait combos, which affect your own playstyle, making it different each run. And on top of that, the pixel physics, which is ridiculously amusing (especially for spouses and others watching, who will laugh hysterically as you run into freezing mist trying to avoid lava, and end up taking a bath in both).

To me it's odd that an action game has such a deep, complex environment. There's so much going on in the background, and you have to adapt differently each time you play (although over time, some combination show up that you will have learned how to use and can implement without really thinking about it).

I've found that if you have a bit of protection (extra HP, or an immunity maybe), teleportitis might be a good way to finish the game. It teleports you randomly within the level every time you take damage, which means that eventually, you'll pop out near an exit. Of course, the exits go to different places in some areas; the game map is not just a linear descent, there are side areas and paths around some of it and even repeated biomes. But with teleportitis, as long as you don't get popped repeatedly into lava, you stand a chance of tearing through the levels at high speed as everything in the world shoots you on appearance.

And that's just one tiny way to play lol. My favorite so far was a bouncing high speed repeating green ball. Low damage but it just filled the screen with projectiles. I added a permanent shield, and got the perks for homing shots and also a shot-deflecting screen, and descended around 3/4 of the way to the end without any further tricks. (I did also have a black hole wand to allow me to just burrow out of trouble, and a drill wand for when that ran out.)

Wild game. Never played anything like it.

I saw "XOM" on a license plate the other day and thought of DC:SS.

Stoneshard early access is available on Steam.

Stoneshard

Stone's hard?

Robear wrote:

Stoneshard early access is available on Steam.

Is very good, you like.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Stoneshard

Stone's hard?

TMI

I do like it. A great, immersive system that encourages problem-solving with the stuff around you. The first boss fight, though... The one at the end of the tutorial. Gotta figure that out.

It doesn't look like a roguelike to me. Just saying.

That's how it's been marketed, and often reviewed, as a Roguelike. It's got heavy procedural generation, dungeon-crawling, permadeath, stylized graphics and it's turn-based.

I figure it's of interest to people here, because of the difficulty and the nature of the game, even if you don't think of it as a roguelike.

Robear wrote:

That's how it's been marketed, and often reviewed, as a Roguelike. It's got heavy procedural generation, dungeon-crawling, permadeath, stylized graphics and it's turn-based.

I figure it's of interest to people here, because of the difficulty and the nature of the game, even if you don't think of it as a roguelike.

To be fair, the Steam store page doesn't have the word 'roguelike' in it except as a user-defined tag. So maybe they backed off that bit of marketing? (Probably because 'roguelike' has been overused to the point of meaninglessness in popular gaming.) I think describing it as a 'turn-based rpg' as they do is much better/smarter.

What's missing, would you say, that knocks it out of rogue-dom? Folks might be interested in that insight.

Permadeath is optional through an ironman mode.

Permadeath
Do you like risk? Then try out the Ironman mode, where every decision is irreversible and your character dies once and for all.

I still consider it a roguelike and think it fits in the thread. You can turn the game into a roguelike.

Stoneshart (typo, Im keeping it!) has a demo

I picked it up.

Nookrium’s stream looked incredible.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QtmR5R...

polypusher wrote:

Stoneshart (typo, Im keeping it!) has a demo

Stone shart?? I preferred the other name!

Robear wrote:

What's missing, would you say, that knocks it out of rogue-dom? Folks might be interested in that insight.

Caveat that this is based only on the store page. I've not followed its development, played it, or watched anyone else play it.

  • Permadeath mode is not the default.
  • It's described as an "open world."
  • There's an economy where you can earn money by trading.
  • There's crafting.

I noticed the demo is free, so I'll definitely be picking it up for a spin.

Well, for example, ADOM, one of the most respected Roguelikes ever, has those features as well (Permadeath being the default but optional). I'm not sure that Permadeath not being the default is really as disqualifier, like the lack of it might be.

I've played Roguelikes since 1980, before the genre existed lol, and I'm comfortable with it as one. And besides, it's really fun. So I hope you won't skip this one due to your definition.

Some folks are super picky about what is considered a roguelike or not, but I think there may also be a backlash against calling your game a roguelike. The devs probably wanted to push the open world turn based stuff instead of the roguelike aspect to better appeal to a wider audience. There are plenty of folks who simply don't jive with repetitive dying as a mechanic.

Now is the age of blending genres, redefining them, development exploration (doing anything to get some f'ing sales, you cheap monsters). I think it's best to accept games that intersect with the genre in the thread and not worry about strict definitions.

For reference, I'm going with the Berlin Interpretation, but everyone has their own ideas. Some games I play strictly permadeath; some, I save-scum. Some I switch to permadeath after I get familiar with it.

We have some designers here and there's a lot of variety between their games. It's cool; I like variety. I can play what fits my mood.

Wait, so TOME isn’t a rogue Like? It is open world, has a non permadeath option, has trading.

Maybe we should all go to Reddit and ask.

I've developed a hardline anti-semantics stance. If there's a word you want to use in a particular way, go for it. Just define how you're using it if it will cause confusion or you need to clarify. All ontologies are imperfect reflections of emergent effects of reality.

pizzaddict wrote:

Wait, so TOME isn’t a rogue Like? It is open world, has a non permadeath option, has trading.

TOME's lineage is interesting, because it reveals how complicated it can be to divide things into categories.

ToME is currently called Tales of Maj'Eyal, but before version 4 (in 2010) it was instead called Tales of Middle Earth and was much more directly Tolkien inspired. And before that it was Troubles of Middle Earth.

However, ToME started in 1998 as PernAngband. Which is a variant of Angband with details inspired by Anne McCaffrey's Pern.

PernAngband was specifically a variant of Zangband (which started development in 1994). Zanband's setting is based on the Amber series by Roger Zelazny, and is where things like an open wilderness were introduced.

Angband itself is one of the five major roguelikes of the Usenet era (alongside Nethack, etc.) and is one of the early roguelikes with the most variants, due to being relatively easy to develop with. (Have you read the Nethack level generation code? I didn't know you could make C do that.) Angband's setting is very strongly Tolkien inspired (the name's from the Silmarillion, you fight Morgoth, etc.) Angband started in 1990, as a variant of UMoria 5.2.1.

UMoria is the C port of Moria, which was first released in 1983. Moria was started by a programmer named Robert A. Koeneke who had played Rogue but no longer had access to it, so starting in 1981 he coded his own game (in VMS Basic at first, and then VMS Pascal for the 1983 public release).

Rogue, of course, is the game the genre is named after, and was originally released in 1980, by Glenn Wichman (at U.C. Santa Cruz), Michael Toy (who moved from Santa Cruz to Berkeley), and Ken Arnold (at U.C.Berkeley). It's inclusion that year in Berkeley's BSD UNIX distribution 4.2 was one reason it was widely available.

So it's a real Ship of Theseus problem: if we decide that ToME isn't a roguelike, where do we draw the line, and why?