@ Roguelike games

Yeah, that is a truly devious design. In related news I spent too much of yesterday and today playing it.

Well this was a short career:

IMAGE(http://mantisonthemountain.com/bits/deskDungeons.png)

Neither my boss nor my career thank you for that.

In other news, I`ve found a fantastic use for my Dropbox folder!

That game is straight up evil. I clicked over to play one game while setting up a web server, and looked up again an hour later. =P

What a fantastic little game. Excellent find!

Yes, this is a really nice find, thanks!

Chumpy_McChump wrote:

Neither my boss nor my career thank you for that.

In other news, I`ve found a fantastic use for my Dropbox folder!

Dropbox is amazingly useful for roguelikes and console emulator roms/saves. Also pretty good for that dosbox Privateer distribution.

Desktop Dungeons isn't doing it for me anymore. It was fun the first three or four games, but then it just became maddening because I was getting to practically the same place every time (me level 8, them level 9 and 10) and running out of places to explore to give me back some health and mana. You have to be perfect in your exploration to beat a level. I don't mind hard, but perfection is annoying.

garion333 wrote:

Desktop Dungeons isn't doing it for me anymore. It was fun the first three or four games, but then it just became maddening because I was getting to practically the same place every time (me level 8, them level 9 and 10) and running out of places to explore to give me back some health and mana. You have to be perfect in your exploration to beat a level. I don't mind hard, but perfection is annoying.

Spoiler:

Have you tried using the spell that reveals 3 random tiles. You can use it in a fight to get back some hp and you break even on MP.

Yeah, it is extremely challenging but I'm still really enjoying it. Great for a quick distraction here and there. I like how your money carries over from game to game; sometimes I'll do a quick run and retire just to collect some gold, saving it up for a run that feels like it'll be a winner. The puzzle-like nature of the game is what really keeps me hooked.

I'd love to see a slightly expanded version of Desktop Dungeons, maybe three levels deep with some potential loot along the way or something. And keyboard support!

I'm loving it... always had trouble with Roguelikes because of the steep learning curve, but this really hits the right spot for me. Might even use this to branch into more complicated versions.

garion333 wrote:

Desktop Dungeons isn't doing it for me anymore. It was fun the first three or four games, but then it just became maddening because I was getting to practically the same place every time (me level 8, them level 9 and 10) and running out of places to explore to give me back some health and mana. You have to be perfect in your exploration to beat a level. I don't mind hard, but perfection is annoying.

I've had that problem about 50% of the time. Sometimes it's just not possible to win. But I've been consistently amazed at how different classes play differently, and once you 'get' how you're supposed to play that class, you can usually win at least 1/3 of the time. Or maybe I'm just losing a lot and not noticing.

Like, the priest is great... if you get a dungeon full of undead. With an undead boss. And explore just right. (having some trouble with the priest). Races add a good bit of flavor, too, and can make the classes play very differently.

My favorite so far is the assassin (3rd tier thief class) who just chews up monsters. You can poison the monster so their health doesn't regenerate when you explore, as long as you don't attack anyone else. Also, you auto-kill anything below your level.

garion333 wrote:

Desktop Dungeons isn't doing it for me anymore. It was fun the first three or four games, but then it just became maddening because I was getting to practically the same place every time (me level 8, them level 9 and 10) and running out of places to explore to give me back some health and mana. You have to be perfect in your exploration to beat a level. I don't mind hard, but perfection is annoying.

I found that really frustrating as well until I realized that you're not supposed to be able to win every time. There are some levels with some classes that just can't be beaten. Once that kicked in, failure became just another game.

Chumpy_McChump wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Desktop Dungeons isn't doing it for me anymore. It was fun the first three or four games, but then it just became maddening because I was getting to practically the same place every time (me level 8, them level 9 and 10) and running out of places to explore to give me back some health and mana. You have to be perfect in your exploration to beat a level. I don't mind hard, but perfection is annoying.

I found that really frustrating as well until I realized that you're not supposed to be able to win every time. There are some levels with some classes that just can't be beaten. Once that kicked in, failure became just another game. :)

As in that gold carries over from game to game?

Played Moria in the 80s with a bugged copy that wouldn't let me cast mage spells beyond the 2nd spellbook. I have tried Nethack, Angband and Zangband at various intervals since. Have never yet completed a game. Dammit.

This game has killed my productivity at work. It was also the first game that went on my new netbook, I mean my wife's new netbook.

The wiki for it was helpful, I was having a hard time tracking what the different gods did and it clarified how XP is awarded which is important.

http://www.qcfdesign.com/wiki/DesktopDungeons/index.php?title=Desktop_Dungeons

I saw Desktop Dungeons mentioned on Rock, Paper, Shotgun the other day. When it is A) free and B) described as a strange mix of minesweeper and a roguelike, I thought I had to give it a try. I've been playing it in all my free time for the last 2 days now.

The game is definitely very puzzle-like, and there are levels where there was never anything you were going to be able to do to beat them. I find that unless I am locked into a small opening area (like the screenshot LiquidMantis posted above), I can usually at least make it up to only having the final boss left, before determining that there is no mathematical way to beat them. I've beaten the normal dungeon with all 12 of the "regular" classes, and unlocked one other class and the two other races. So far I think the Warlord with their sidestep ability (ability to dodge a death blow, costs 10 mana to cast) and the Assassin with the poison ability (can go explore and heal without the monster regenerating as well) to be the most powerful/fun.

The religions are also very interesting. So far I have had the most success with the "holy warrior"one, and also done pretty well with the Pactmaker, which can make things harder in the early going, but pays off with increased power in the end. I have yet to find a good use for the vampire choice, but maybe on one of the dungeon types that doesn't have undead that could work well.

Yeah the gods are a bit rough... Holy warrior works well, as does Jehu Jehaya or whatever it is (the chaos and explosions one). Tiki whatever he is also is great for rogues/ninjas where you can build up a big dodge chance.

Almost all the gods are bad to take late in the game, when you don't have time to build up the bonuses.

While I'm pissed when I piss off a god I didn't realize beforehand how not to, It does add hilarity to games when I'm still figuring it out.

I managed to finish Normal mode with each of the 12 base classes, so now I've apparently unlocked some more modes, one of which involves submitting scores online. Fun stuff.

As roguelikes go, I find this one relatively easy, but it's nice that you can play a round in 5 minutes. The Shiren-esque mechanic of unlocking new items and monsters every time you beat one of the bosses is well done and keeps me coming back.

complexmath wrote:

Yeah, I don't know why they bothered adding tilesets to roguelikes, they communicate less information in exchange for... well, not a whole lot. Does anyone actually like playing with a tileset enabled?

You've obviously never heard of Dungeon Crawl. It even graphically represents what you and the monsters may be wearing and/or wielding, and has health bars on your character so you can't accidentally forget your HPs.

I would go so far as to say it's the most efficient roguelike UI I've ever seen, on top of having seriously useful mouse control support (click for one action, shift-click an object for another, right-click to examine, etc etc.)

http://i.imgur.com/OnF2y.jpg I'm playing as a Draconian in that picture (note the orange skin and horns, each race has a unique sprite which can change when/if you mutate or polymorph or change gear) who's wearing some fancier than usual robes, and not wielding a weapon. The goblin in the picture is wielding a basic club - if he had a dagger or something else, it would show up as such.

coyo7e wrote:

You've obviously never heard of Dungeon Crawl. It even graphically represents what you and the monsters may be wearing and/or wielding, and has health bars on your character so you can't accidentally forget your HPs.

I would go so far as to say it's the most efficient roguelike UI I've ever seen, on top of having seriously useful mouse control support (click for one action, shift-click an object for another, right-click to examine, etc etc.)

Burn the Heretic!

I get the joke, however Dungeon Crawl is actually kind of the best of both worlds.

The "casual" appeal: You get tiles if you like, they're great-looking, and all of the "spoilers" in the game are things you can nearly always learn quickly through trial and error - even if the spoiler is that a certain named unique will always kick your ass when it shows up on D2.

The "Hardcore" appeal: it's constantly updated and tweaked, and if you care to download the latest build (the newest builds don't use tiles,) you can test out the cutting edge of the game's development and give feedback. It's available *tiles only for the time being, but plans for a an online tiles version are in motion - online via SSH and other similar protocols and they even have tourneys and such, and nobody could ever claim you "scummed for your win" by duping save files etc, because it's all stored server-side, and people can literally watch you play if they are curious. There's an IRC channel with a bot which spews out monster/item/etc info on demand and I usually see a hundred and more people in that channel.

I mean, outside of NetHack's semi-purposeful opacity, or Dwarf Fortress' complete embrace of the grognardian player, there really aren't many more hardcore roguelikes I can think of than Crawl. On the other hand, it literally is one of the most approachable roguelikes for a new player to try outside of Shiren or Desktop Dungeons.

coyo7e wrote:

I get the joke, however Dungeon Crawl is actually kind of the best of both worlds.

And, of course, the link to the incredibly-generically-named Dungeon Crawl is...?

Is this Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup ? http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/screenshots

Yeah, he was talking about Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup based on the picture before. Stone Soup is the current version. It's easily my favorite roguelike. It hits a sweet spot at kicking my ass but not making me feel like a complete moron. Meaning, I learn more each time I play.

Chumpy_McChump wrote:

And, of course, the link to the incredibly-generically-named Dungeon Crawl is...?

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup (from the image title bar) seems to be the Google key.

[Edit] Oops, I must've had a stale page. I swear I wasn't Tannhausered before I posted.

Woops my bad, I knew the game's full title and version were in the screenshot, but it was totally a brain fart for me to forget to give links.

http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/downloads

Latest builds are available here http://crawl.develz.org/trunk/ (be aware that it may be pretty hard for a newer player in the trunk builds and it tends to load the game significantly slower, but there's a lot of zany and cool sh*t that gets watered down in the stable builds. )

Also one thing I recently found out the hard way - if you play the "sprint" version of the executable, you'll get your ass kicked. Hard. Within 15 turns probably.

Finally, some of their blog updates are pretty interesting reads as well: http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/a-tide-of-tiles

Edited in tip: the "o" key is auto-explore, but be careful as it's wasteful and you can starve or step out in an imprudent manner if you overuse it. Remember to carve up and eat everything you can, don't use "real food" unless it's crummy, you need room, or you're pretty established and have a stable reserve. Always eat bodies first!

Tonight I felt like playing on "easy mode" as a fighter, two things I almost never do in roguelikes. I started a Minotaur Fighter (classes in Crawl are just a starting skillset and gear loadout, not a set thing at all,) who had the poor luck of using the only edged weapon I could find to chop up bodies for food - and it turned out to be an axe of Distortion, which is a sweet weapon however you cannot remove them without risking NASTY things happening to you. So rather than risking an instant death on D1, I decided instead to make a speed dive for the Ecumenical Temple (the first place you should try to find in the game, and it's almost necessary to do so since it's a good base of operations to store loot etc) and immediately worship Xom, the god of chaos (do NOT choose him on a character you're serious about) since he'd be pretty stoked that I already came with a distortion weapon. I somehow survived going several levels out of my depth and outran a pack of orcs to get inside the ET, and now I'm praying to Xom, and all kinds of hell are about to break loose!

For those still playing Desktop Dungeons, there's a very nice tileset by Derek Yu (he of TIGSource, Aquaria and of course Spelunky) here. Just unzip it in the "tileset" folder and choose it in-game. Plenty of others at the same link, haven't bothered with them...

OK, so I started playing rogue, the original. Version 5.4.4. After about a dozen games I made it to level 10, and died a bunch of times to centaurs. The bastards!!! Anyone beat this one? It's nice and simple, few commands, few monster types, predictable layouts. It has a kind of purity to it, but I see myself getting tired of it soon. I find the dungeons boring, which bothers me since exploring is a good part of the fun. Interactions are limited, but that's OK for now.
Has anyone played XRogue? It's a more advanced version of rogue, with classes and many more monsters and objects. Sadly it seems to retain the simplistic interactions of it forefather...

I'll probably move to Larn soon, which sounds more interesting the more I read about it. Much more complex than I had first imagined, and with "adaptive" difficulty, starting out quite easy. Found a recently updated version which should work on Windows without trouble, can link to it if anyone's interested!

How the heck is Desktop Dungeons NOT on my Iphone yet?

Judging by this article it might well be one day!