Elite Dangerous Catch-All

I haven't played much recently, partly due to being sick most of the last week, and trying to play slow so I don't burn out before they expand the gameplay, but I really need to head over to Lave soon. I have an eaaaaasy trade run in Thiin that I've been hesitant to leave. It's not big numbers by any means, but it's a 300 ls intra-system route that gets ~ 1200 credits/ton/round-trip. I'd say it's good for about 250k per 15 minutes of leisurely pace on a route that I've never had a single interdiction. Sounds like I can do well in rare runs in a much more enjoyable Cobra though so maybe I'll just do a few more local runs so that I can get my Cobra decked out for a comfy migration over to GWJ central.

Orphu wrote:

So, yeah, the part about chaff blocking scans or making them more difficult is not true according to the devs:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...

Chaff just makes gimballed and turret weapons ineffective for a bit. Doesn't stop scanning. Running silent should be preventing scans though so that's the bug.

Crazy -- about half a dozen times while bounty hunting I had my KWS progress halt when my target popped chaff, but they were still in range and in the center of my screen, and so I actually drew that conclusion on my own from that. Perhaps the NPC AI has a tendency to pop chaff and run silent at the same time though?

TrashiDawa wrote:
zeroKFE wrote:

Okay, here we go:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...

Nutron's route modified to include three extra potential systems to stop in.

....

Thanks for putting this together Zero!

Happy to!

So I did a full run and a half of the route last night, and tweaked a few of the suggested midpoints.

Also, I definitely understand why Nutron left those three stations out originally -- if you get lucky on stock volumes, there are already sections of the route where your cargo hold will often be full or very close to full, and you'll have to choose a few commodities to sell early, and adding in the extra stations definitely makes that problem a bit worse. That said, it's nice to have the options in there if you get unlucky on stock, especially in the Lave region (although you could also probably just make a second stop at a station or two an achieve the same thing).

Also, each of the potential "long" options has a significant drawback when it comes to profit per hour on the route:

- You will only ever find one Leathery Egg at Zaonce -- they do sell for a lot, but realistically that commodity will probably only ever give you at most 30k profit or so per visit, where many other stops along the way can be worth upwards of 250k each. (Leathery Eggs definitely are an EXCELLENT buy if you are running rares in a smaller ship, though.)

- The station in Uszaa is 4000+ ls away from the jump point, which really kills your time. That said, the stock was nice and high both times I visited (8 or 10 or so), which somewhat compensates for that.

- Tarach Tor adds significant jump distance to the overall route at a point where your cargo hold will almost certainly be full to bursting.

So, ultimately my read is that Nutron's original route was pretty well optimized for a ~100 ton cargo volume. If the other stations in the Lave area drastically short you, making a visit to Uszaa is probably justified (although a repeat visit to one or two of the other stations MIGHT be a bit better profit per hour), but it's a bit harder to say the same of Zaonce -- although I'll still leave it in my spreadsheet as an option for reference. Simliarly, Tarach Tor really only makes sense if you've been consistently shorted on stock all the way around the route.

Anyway, I've updated my spreadsheet with notes to this effect.

Thanks zeroKFE, I look forward to giving it a shot soon!

zeroKFE wrote:

Simliarly, Tarach Tor really only makes sense if you've been consistently shorted on stock all the way around the route.

Like, say, when you run the blockade at Kappa Fornacis and get offered 1 ton of Onionhead for your troubles.

zeroKFE wrote:
Orphu wrote:

So, yeah, the part about chaff blocking scans or making them more difficult is not true according to the devs:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...

Chaff just makes gimballed and turret weapons ineffective for a bit. Doesn't stop scanning. Running silent should be preventing scans though so that's the bug.

Crazy -- about half a dozen times while bounty hunting I had my KWS progress halt when my target popped chaff, but they were still in range and in the center of my screen, and so I actually drew that conclusion on my own from that. Perhaps the NPC AI has a tendency to pop chaff and run silent at the same time though?

Oh but wait! There's more!

Some confusion at Frontier on this... looks like it does work, but the design team didn't know it was intentional. Sounds like they may remove it in the future for some other scan disrupting mechanic.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...

Thanks Tamren. So, my Cobra currently has 36t cargo space, I'm assuming it's safe to follow your plan or the spreadsheet up until my cargo is full and then just cut the rest and make the trip? I'm guessing I'll get used to which rares make the most profit per ton, or I'll read up somewhere so I make sure to go there first in case I fill up before I get to that station.

omni wrote:

EDIT: Looks like Zaonce and Uszaa are indeed on the spreadsheet? Anyway, that's my next plan, just have to work out the ship to do it in.

That's ZeroKFE's edited version, the original lacked those systems and the new version is still missing a lot of systems. If you're going to Altair why not go to Xihe and Eranin too? Both are basically next door. Same deal with Tanmark, if you're headed there from Witchhaul you might as well stop by Kappa Fornacis on the way. The route is missing a lot of systems like that.

My version is more complete because I did the number crunching over several pages of notes. I copied the list of all rare systems and struck off any with stations that are too far from the parent star like Geras and Alpha Centauri (because they take too long to travel to). I sorted out all the systems far from Lave and found out which were located in "clusters" and any other rare systems on the way between those clusters. The work I'm doing right now is to figure out the shortest way of visiting all systems in a cluster and the right location on the chain to sell commodities if you consider it a full circle. There are also a ton of systems that I still have to evaluate to see if they can be incorporated into the chain.

Anyhow this is all very complicated, if you want a basic workable trade route that doesn't require too much thinking here is what I've been using:

Lave, Leesti, Orerre, Diso, Uszaa, Zaonce: Head to 39 Tauri and sell

39 Tauri, Fujin, Momus Reach, Wolf 1301, Witchhaul: Head to Kappa Fornacis

Kappa Fornacis, Tanmark, Tarach Tor, Utagroar: Head back to Lave and sell

This one is a "there and back" sort of deal instead of a circular route like I'm trying to figure out. But I've done this one several times and it makes good use of a Type 6 or Cobra. There isn't much backtracking if you are lucky with commodity spawns.

zeroKFE wrote:

- The station in Uszaa is 4000+ ls away from the jump point, which really kills your time. That said, the stock was nice and high both times I visited (8 or 10 or so), which somewhat compensates for that.

This is true, but taking the time to travel 4000 LS to a station is no different from getting to a station and finding that they only gave you one item and having to come back again. It's definitely worth visiting Uszaa at least once.

omni wrote:

Thanks Tamren. So, my Cobra currently has 36t cargo space, I'm assuming it's safe to follow your plan or the spreadsheet up until my cargo is full and then just cut the rest and make the trip? I'm guessing I'll get used to which rares make the most profit per ton, or I'll read up somewhere so I make sure to go there first in case I fill up before I get to that station.

That's exactly what I do. And don't worry about picking specific rares, just fill your cargo bay.

So to be clear, where you take rares is irrelevant, it's just about how far? Or is a wealthy system a better destination?

There's probably some maximum efficiency routes, but I like to wander. So for the rare trading what really helps me is to figure out which systems are clustered roughly together or can be visited in a chain, and then wander off to another cluster to sell them.

omni wrote:

Thanks Tamren. So, my Cobra currently has 36t cargo space, I'm assuming it's safe to follow your plan or the spreadsheet up until my cargo is full and then just cut the rest and make the trip? I'm guessing I'll get used to which rares make the most profit per ton, or I'll read up somewhere so I make sure to go there first in case I fill up before I get to that station.

If you trade rares in a Cobra you may as well swap everything for cargo bays, or at least everything except for one shield generator. Running into trouble is unlikely and if you do find it the Cobra can easily outrun most enemies. It's all about what you're comfortable with, but every last ton you can fit in is that much more profit per trip. And yes if you have a capacity of 36 tons you should be able to fill up or nearly so with one run through each cluster. On the inbound leg you may be able to skip Kappa Fornacis and the last 4 systems depending on how 39 Tauri and the others spawn commodities.

One thing I forgot to mention that trips up newbies is that in Uszaa you have to go to Guest Station, this is the furthest station from the star. And in Wolf 1301 you have to go to Saunder's Dive specifically, which is not the closest to the parent star.

LiquidMantis wrote:

So to be clear, where you take rares is irrelevant, it's just about how far? Or is a wealthy system a better destination?

Only distance from the source matters. The biggest increase comes from 150LY+ but drops off very rapidly after that. Most people consider 160LY the "cap".

That's ZeroKFE's edited version, the original lacked those systems and the new version is still missing a lot of systems. If you're going to Altair why not go to Xihe and Eranin too? Both are basically next door. Same deal with Tanmark, if you're headed there from Witchhaul you might as well stop by Kappa Fornacis on the way. The route is missing a lot of systems like that.

Well, my assumption is that Nutron was optimizing for profit/hour within the available cargo space of roughly 100 tons. Again, from my VERY unscientific testing, Zaonce and Uszaa seem only borderline worthwhile as stops for the reasons I mentioned above. As for the other ones you mentioned, it's very much worth investigating, but those are all points where my cargo hold was already mostly full.

Ultimately, though, the only measure that really matters is profit per hour. So far my experience running the route jives pretty well with what Nutron calculated in his original spreadsheet -- I made about 1.1 or 1.2 million per hour (averaged over the two hours or so it takes to run his full loop, of course -- more of the sales happen in the second hour than in the first), but if adding or dropping stops here or there can push that up a bit higher that would be excellent. This, however, seems like a pretty decent starting point.

(And again, worth pointing out that a decent common commodity route can be MUCH more profitable than this -- along the same lines as what LiquidMantis mentions above, but with more profit per ton -- but then you do have to factor in the time it takes to find the route, and the fact that it will decay eventually.)

I've been doing a version of the Leesti to Zeessze (plus surrounding stops) rare route for the last few days and it works well. I tend to make about 1M credits per round trip. I have done the run in a Hauler, Cobra and a Type 6 and am now just using a Cobra with a 32 cargo capacity and a jump range of 20 (laden). My instincts are that the effort in getting over about 32-35 rare cargo is not worth it. With a 20 ly jump range, most of the time is spent picking up the goods rather than the actual 135 ly transit between start and end zones. That's just my instinct though - I keep meaning to time myself accurately but keep on forgetting.

As an aside, is anyone finding any consistency in the 'imported to/exported from' trade information linked with the demand data? I have regularly encountered losses even when taking something in high supply on one of the established trade routes. With a cargo bay of about 128 in my Type 6, I was not able to get anywhere close to the profit of carrying 32 rares on the route described above. I haven't yet worked out how to make good money with trading non-rares.

Shymlark wrote:

As an aside, is anyone finding any consistency in the 'imported to/exported from' trade information linked with the demand data? I have regularly encountered losses even when taking something in high supply on one of the established trade routes. With a cargo bay of about 128 in my Type 6, I was not able to get anywhere close to the profit of carrying 32 rares on the route described above. I haven't yet worked out how to make good money with trading non-rares.

The catch with the import/export data (and the trade route arrows on the galaxy map that seem to use the same data) is that it's measuring volume rather than profit, and it only updates periodically, meaning it is often referring to the trade flow for last cycle. (Somebody correct me if you've got better info on this.) High supply doesn't necessarily mean low cost, and at your point on the curve what you really need to be looking for is low selling price and high buying price. The import/export data is a clue, but just a clue; the route may be saturated already. Supply and demand comes into play a bit more when your ship can buy out a significant fraction of a starport's supply of something.

I've had a bit of luck using out-of-game tools to identify potential routes. That data is incomplete and can be dated too, but it gives you the numbers. Doing that gave me a feel for what is in demand in certain system types, and therefore which commodities to concentrate on when I visited nearby systems.

That said, I'm addicted to the rush of getting 1M+ credits when I dump an entire load of rares, even if it took me all evening to collect them in the first place, so I'm not the person to ask about efficiency.

Can anyone recommend a guide to ship upgrades?

Some systems show improvement more obviously than others, and I'm not sure which of, e.g., power plant or power distributor to prioritize.

misplacedbravado wrote:

...power plant or power distributor to prioritize.

Both, especially the distributor, IMO.

I'd prioritize the distributor, personally. Not that I'm a pro at upgrades by any means. Going to a D rating plant is good for the weight reduction, but if you're covering your power demand with surplus I think the only benefit from further upgrades is overhead in case damage lowers your power output. However the distributor affects your capacitor recharge and [I believe] FSD charge rate.

LiquidMantis wrote:

I'd prioritize the distributor, personally. Not that I'm a pro at upgrades by any means. Going to a D rating plant is good for the weight reduction, but if you're covering your power demand with surplus I think the only benefit from further upgrades is overhead in case damage lowers your power output. However the distributor affects your capacitor recharge and [I believe] FSD charge rate.

This.

On a combat ship, I would actually say getting an A class distributor is pretty much your number one priority -- it's just that important to the combat efficacy of your ship. For an all around build a C class should suffice, but the A grade ones are generally cheap compared to other A class upgrades for any given ship, so unless you are building a pure trader its hard to argue with that upgrade. (For a trader ship, it's D grade gear for pretty much everything but your FSD.)

The power plant is much more tricky -- as LiquidMantis says, surplus only has value once you start taking damage, in that you are less likely to have power management issues when you do. But technically, you don't necessarily even need enough power for all your units at once -- something you have no choice but to learn if you fully kit out a Viper, which are going to be underpowered as a rule. Carefully planning your power groups so that non-combat modules (cargo and fuel scoop, FSD, etc) are in group 3 will allow you to run a bit over your total available power, since your weapons only draw power when deployed (and when they are deployed, you don't need non-combat functions). But, when the choice is available, it's probably usually wise to have at least a bit of power overhead -- just not too much.

As for a general guide, I don't have one off hand, but you can get a feel for my personal philosophy by looking at the builds I posted above (and you can learn a lot by just playing around with that outfitting calculator).

Some thoughts though:
-Never stick with E grade gear. At the very least, go to D grade to optimize for weight.

- And as I said earlier, that's most of the upgrading you'll want to do for a trade focused ship, other than your FSD and perhaps thinking a bit more about your defensive gear.

- For many components class C is the sweet spot. It will be better than class D in every appreciable way while only being slightly heavier, where class B will be crazy heavy and class A will be crazy expensive. Actually, the only time where I'd ever really consider a class B option is for an FSD drive or for a Thruster unit, since those are the two main pieces that are fighting against excess weight. As with everything else, a class A will be MUCH better, but those are the two places where taking the B class bargain won't hurt you quite so much.

- You don't necessarily need to use the biggest part available for a slot. Particularly with power plants, you can often save a lot of money and weight with a smaller one. Similarly for shields, if you aren't building a combat focused ship, you probably don't need the biggest size of shield generator. A Type 6 can technically hold a size 5 shield generator, but a size 3 should suffice.

- Speaking of shields, they are especially tricky to figure out, but this chart is very, very helpful: http://i.imgur.com/1FL7I48.png

IMAGE(http://v.cdn.cad-comic.com/comics/cad-20150107-48d99.png)

This is why I'm going to buy an OR when it officially releases.

Trading does not appeal to me but huge amounts of space cash does so I might check it out.
USSes are getting a little tedious with so many being clean pirates apparently who won't start a scuffle unless I have cargo. Maybe I'll pick up one ton of biowaste so they'll start something. Also, toxic waste damages your systems if you carry it around.

I've been putzing around the systems near Alioth trying to grind Alliance rep. I really want a system pass to Alioth although I know it doesn't get me anything special. I'm considering a relocation to Lave where many of you good people are. Can I get a fair amount of Alliance rep there?

Yeah, plenty of Alliance and Federation planets around Lave, plus one Empire outpost.

Was moving a quick clip towards Lave tonight and got distracted again when I ran into a system that had a metallic belt. I think it's time to try out mining. Anyone have any tips?

Fredrik_S wrote:

Was moving a quick clip towards Lave tonight and got distracted again when I ran into a system that had a metallic belt. I think it's time to try out mining. Anyone have any tips?

Try it, then do something else. I've tried it twice this week and both times I made more money from the bounties on those that tried to rob me; even when mining metals. I mined about 4 different areas and in each case there was constant interruption by pirates.

Seriously though I found that there are less pirates around the rings if you cut out right before the resource collection point so you are 50 - 100 km out. You can't do this with the asteroid belts though.

Flintheart Glomgold wrote:
Fredrik_S wrote:

Was moving a quick clip towards Lave tonight and got distracted again when I ran into a system that had a metallic belt. I think it's time to try out mining. Anyone have any tips?

Try it, then do something else. I've tried it twice this week and both times I made more money from the bounties on those that tried to rob me; even when mining metals. I mined about 4 different areas and in each case there was constant interruption by pirates.

Seriously though I found that there are less pirates around the rings if you cut out right before the resource collection point so you are 50 - 100 km out. You can't do this with the asteroid belts though.

Yeah, if you mine go anywhere except a Resource Extraction Site. Resource Extraction Sites are where the NPCs are mining/getting pirated, but there are plenty of rocks elsewhere in the rings that work just fine for mining.

Speaking of which, has anyone found some good sites to mine near Lave?

You often get pirates visit you if you go to the asteroid belts just near stars as well, so if you want to be left alone, don't bother with those.

Has anyone tried picking up the mining materials NPCs knock off of asteroids Iif so, is it labeled as stolen? If not, seems like a quick way to make some cash while severely bumming out some NPCs. I never see the NPC miners pick up the fragments, but they don't seem to float around for very long.

Shymlark wrote:

As an aside, is anyone finding any consistency in the 'imported to/exported from' trade information linked with the demand data? I have regularly encountered losses even when taking something in high supply on one of the established trade routes. With a cargo bay of about 128 in my Type 6, I was not able to get anywhere close to the profit of carrying 32 rares on the route described above. I haven't yet worked out how to make good money with trading non-rares.

You're kind of reading the flow chart backwards, for two reasons. It shows what HAS been trading, IE if minerals are flowing into Leesti, odds are Leesti has all the minerals it needs and won't pay much for more. The High Demand and High Supply systems are those WITHOUT any trade routes. Prices are high and low because there is no traffic in those systems.

If you want to make money trading you have to go off the grid a little and look for those systems which are not well supplied. Avoid well travelled systems like Lave and the stars around it. A good sign for profitability is when you get to a system, look at a specific good and it says "Imported/Exported from:__________ (none)".

Dr_Awkward wrote:

Can I get a fair amount of Alliance rep there?

Yup, just pick a station and do lots of missions for it. I'm friendly with the Alliance now so all Alliance ships appear green to me. In Lave I'm considered Allied with the ruling Alliance faction. I seem to get more missions from them and they also come to help me if I get in a fight.

Gremlin wrote:

Speaking of which, has anyone found some good sites to mine near Lave?

There are a couple of gas giants with Pristine Metal Rich asteroids. But Metallic asteroids are the only kind worth mining. I just checked my notes and I have the HIP 63530 system marked as "metallic mining" so you might try there. It's some distance above Lave.

For some reason my interest has been piqued in Elite Dangerous, would it be a horrible idea to dip my toe in using mouse/keyboard or Xbox controller? I have no stick etc...
Also, is there much game in here for someone not overly going for dogfighting? More interested in mining, hauling and selling to be honest, but would love working in a crew and throw in a little exploration too. Is that something potentially feasible in the game?

Perfectly feasible yes, but you will have to defend yourself at some point. So it's worth honing those skills even if you don't plan on doing a lot of combat.

Speaking of combat though do any of you guys know of active conflict zones? I think Sorbago was the first one that appeared after launch but that one is no longer active because the rebellion was put down.

troubleshot wrote:

For some reason my interest has been piqued in Elite Dangerous, would it be a horrible idea to dip my toe in using mouse/keyboard or Xbox controller? I have no stick etc...
Also, is there much game in here for someone not overly going for dogfighting? More interested in mining, hauling and selling to be honest, but would love working in a crew and throw in a little exploration too. Is that something potentially feasible in the game?

Mining, hauling, selling, and exploration are core gameplay at this point. You don't need to dogfight.

You can totally fly with a mouse and keyboard or xbox controller. You don't need a stick.

We really need a FAQ thread.