Bioshock Tips & Reviews (Spoilers)

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I know this is the spoiler thread, but please use the spoiler tags with some idea of what part of the game you're discussing anyways.

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(quote)(color=white)spoiler text(/color)(/quote)

I'll blow the doors open with this huge one:

[color=White]
PLASMIDS IS PEOPLE.
[/color]
Bad pick-up lines wrote:

I'll blow the doors open with this huge one.

Can you keep your Freudian parallels out of this yo? We're trying to talk about videogames here!

Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:

Can you keep your Freudian parallels out of this yo? We're trying to talk about videogames here!

I thought we were talking about my Big Daddy for Little Sister.

Or are we talking about Adam Sandler and Stevie Ray Vaughn now?

Either way, I stayed out too late this weekend, and might be getting a 24-hour bug. It'd be a shame if I was sick tomorrow.

I predict the biggest debate will be this:

[color=white]The choice to save or kill the Little Sisters is an empty choice, with the only consequence being what ending you get and of course a little extra Adam.[/color]

I'm basing this off of a review, we've yet to see to what degree this is true or not. If the reviewer is correct, it's not like Bioshock is missing something that other great shooters have. Half-Life and Halo don't even give you the pretense of choice. Still, I'll be sad if Bioshock's plot is nothing more than a Bioware knock-off.

If the player's input is binary, harvest or rescue, how can the result be anything but binary?

Danjo Olivaw wrote:

If the player's input is binary, harvest or rescue, how can the result be anything but binary?

But if there are multiple instances of the choice, couldn't there be results for various parts of the spectrum?

Not when there's two endings, but more generally you're right. The results could be stratified into 2^n number of outcomes, but how awesome would the ones in the middle be?

"Congratulations, you killed all but one of the little girls, slacker."

"Congratulations, you only killed one of the little girls, butterfingers."

There could at least be one in the middle, I suppose. I guess that depends on the endings, though, which I haven't seen.

Suppose the Little Sisters had personalities and weren't clones of each other - if they represented different philosophical stances then the ones you killed or let live could define a personal philosophy at the end of the game.

After you've banished the Adam deamon from them, they're just little kids; I wouldn't expect them to have "philosophical stances".

Oooh, you wanna "white out" that last comment, Gorilla.

I was suggesting a new gameplay mechanic, make the "choice" more interactive than simply giving the player more Adam. This explains the problem. I'm not saying it's an existing mechanic.

souldaddy wrote:

I predict the biggest debate will be this:

[color=white]The choice to save or kill the Little Sisters is an empty choice, with the only consequence being what ending you get and of course a little extra Adam.[/color]

I'm basing this off of a review, we've yet to see to what degree this is true or not. If the reviewer is correct, it's not like Bioshock is missing something that other great shooters have. Half-Life and Halo don't even give you the pretense of choice. Still, I'll be sad if Bioshock's plot is nothing more than a Bioware knock-off.

Indeed. In spite of the fact that I generally doing like SP FPS and in spite of the fact that I'm not big on gore and the horror elements, I was considering giving this game a go because of the atmosphere and because of the story. If this is the extent of the choice in the game I will probably pass and just wait for Mass Effect and the binary choice they give you anyway.

It's completely yes/no so far. The Little Sisters are nothing more than an element of the plot, and a decision between a known and an unknown reward. They shouldn't have even mentioned the Little Sisters before release. The implied moral choice is so not important, but the act of making the choice is ridiculously creepy.

Stop expecting the game to recognize you made a moral choice and provide the appropriate ramifications. That's never been the point of right and wrong. It doesn't matter if the world notices. It matters if you do.

Though this doesn't really strike me as a DSGamer kind of game, it is extremely good in general so you might want to rent it.

EDIT: Holy carp the shotgun makes everything before it seem like a ping pong paddle!

I was just watching my buddy play, and he used the Hypnotize Big Daddy plasmid on a rosey big daddy and set it up against another big daddy. That battle was fun to just sit there and watch.

Ok...I'm starting to really hate the various gun turrets in the game.. especially the ones that lob balls of explosive insta gib death at you with little or no warning.

Also the placement of said gun turrets sometimes is downright silly... there was one seemingly randomly placed under the docks.. wtf? why?

Danjo Olivaw wrote:

Stop expecting the game to recognize you made a moral choice and provide the appropriate ramifications. That's never been the point of right and wrong. It doesn't matter if the world notices. It matters if you do.

Preach it brother. When the first Little Sister was scrambling away from me and cowering, it felt like my choice would matter; whether it actually does or not comes second.

This game is immersing to the point where it needs much more autosaving.

Just got finished with the Fisheries section. So far, it's a little lighter on story than I was expecting, but the world is fantastic, and the shooting is way, way better than I had expected. When you get some more versatile plasmids under your belt, the game really opens up in terms of gameplay variety. My favorite part so far as been killing The Surgeon with a cash-register to the head. Hypnotize Big Daddy also seems to be indispensable, though I'm a little curious as to why Ryan Industries would create such a thing. :p So far the scripted "scary" sequences have proven that I am a wuss. When the [color=white]dude disappeared, then jumped out of the freezer closet... I nearly pooped![/color]

Anyone tries harvesting a little sister? I haven't had the heart to do it, but I'm curious what happens, and how much Adam you get from it.

Spoiler wrote:

[color=white]I was surprised to get a reward for Sister-saving so early on in the game. I had thought that it was a "wait until the end" sort of deal, but I got a real bear of a reward pretty early on. Looks like they're keeping that carrot firmly in view, for all us non infanticidal maniacs. ;)[/color]

The best thing has to be the pacing. There just hasn't been a moment where I thought "OK, this is a good place to call it a night. I played for ~4 hours without even realizing it. It hurt to turn it off and take a break.

[edit] - Oh yeah, and what difficulty are you guys playing at? I'm playing on Hard, and it seems just right - any easier and I think it might lose some of its freakiness. Interestingly, the harder the game is, the more you're forced to think outside the box.

Harvesting a sister nets me 160 Adam, but that might be different on Hard. I'm going through on Normal, but with auto-aim off. I'm displeased that I can't bang away at the hidey holes with my wrench to lure the little Adam tarts out.

Danjo Olivaw wrote:

Harvesting a sister nets me 160 Adam, but that might be different on Hard. I'm going through on Normal, but with auto-aim off. I'm displeased that I can't bang away at the hidey holes with my wrench to lure the little Adam tarts out.

Hah, I tried that as well. I'm convinced that the first time I did it (two knocks, just like the Daddy) I heard some scuttling in there. Could have been my imagination.

Wow, didn't realize it was such a big difference between rescue (80 Adam) and harvest (160 Adam)... hmm...

I've received two rescue teddy bear gifts so far - without spoiling anything, they sure seem to be making up for the Adam deficit.

There's a 100GP Achievement for saving them all, 40GP for wholesale murder IIRC. Good reason to play thru twice at least

CannibalCrowley wrote:

This game is immersing to the point where it needs much more autosaving.

Indeed, the game had a little burp and I started sweating thinking about how long it had been since I manually saved! Was worried my DVD Drive was about to have one of it's sudden temporary blindness episodes

Morrolan wrote:

The best thing has to be the pacing. There just hasn't been a moment where I thought "OK, this is a good place to call it a night. I played for ~4 hours without even realizing it. It hurt to turn it off and take a break.

I was in the Tea Garden stepping out of the Rez Pod and waiting for my pulse to return to normal when I decided to check the time since surely it must be getting close to dinner - it was 11:46...

One of the last things I did before calling it a night was kill the first big daddy. I got my ass thoroughly kicked. That ground stomp is a pain. It can hit you even on the other side of a wall.

I came at him with the electroshock plasmid and the shotgun, but the electroshock seemed to have a very short effect. Firing at his back tanks may have been causing more damage. Not sure. Anyone else have any tips for fighting these guys without several trips to the vitra chamber (or whatever they're called)?

Electroshock shells seem to work well - still results in a trip or two to the chamber for me. He seems not to mind being on fire.

As a side note, I've had it where I'm whittling away Mr. B and the Sister wanders off... Dead daddy and no sister reward

McChuck wrote:

One of the last things I did before calling it a night was kill the first big daddy. I got my ass thoroughly kicked. That ground stomp is a pain. It can hit you even on the other side of a wall.

I came at him with the electroshock plasmid and the shotgun, but the electroshock seemed to have a very short effect. Firing at his back tanks may have been causing more damage. Not sure. Anyone else have any tips for fighting these guys without several trips to the vitra chamber (or whatever they're called)?

Heres a tip.. they arent very good at navigating around corners...especially if the corner has something sticking out from it...

My recipe for success has been hacked turret + electro shock + tommy gun.

I don't like the respawn chambers and so far I've been loading from a previously saved game upon death.

MikeMac wrote:

As a side note, I've had it where I'm whittling away Mr. B and the Sister wanders off... Dead daddy and no sister reward :|

I noticed that too, with the very first Big Daddy I killed. However, when I went back to the corpse, the description text showed 'Bouncer', so maybe it's a different type of Big Daddy, one that doesn't have an associated Little Sister.

I'm having a great time with game. The big daddies are a pain in the ass. I have tried to even shock them when they are standing in a pool of water, but even that doesn't seem to have much of an effect. Does anyone know if you can use the enrage plasmid(hypnotize) on a big daddy and then start attacking him. Just wondering if he will stand there and take it or attack you.

I also have problem with the turret placement since it seem like by the time you hack the turrets, there are no more splicers around for them to shoot at. I know you do go back to some areas so I was thinking that they will be useful for when the enemies respawn.

Mr E.B. Slugworth wrote:

I also have problem with the turret placement since it seem like by the time you hack the turrets, there are no more splicers around for them to shoot at. I know you do go back to some areas so I was thinking that they will be useful for when the enemies respawn.

If you're feeling all Rambo, you can run in, ignoring the splicers, and hack the turret first. The game is essentially paused while you're hacking, so it's not too hard.

you can also lure splicers from different areas back into a previously hacked turret's line of fire.

The enrage plasmid causes your target to attack the nearest thing to it, whatever that might be (including you).

Serengeti wrote:
MikeMac wrote:

As a side note, I've had it where I'm whittling away Mr. B and the Sister wanders off... Dead daddy and no sister reward :|

I noticed that too, with the very first Big Daddy I killed. However, when I went back to the corpse, the description text showed 'Bouncer', so maybe it's a different type of Big Daddy, one that doesn't have an associated Little Sister.

I believe Bouncer and Big Daddy are one and the same. I had the same issue when I killed the first Big Daddy, but I ran around the room, looking in every corner and when I got back around to the corpse, the Little Sister was cowering next to it.

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