"World of StarCraft" confounds!

Fedaykin98 wrote:

I don't have a problem with a Starcraft MMO existing simultaneously with a Warcraft MMO - I'm sure that they will, one way or another. For one thing, even if Starcraft MMO came in as the "sequel" to WoW, they're not gonna just shut down the cash-cow WoW servers. I do think it would be optimal for them to be on different cycles, such that they introduce the Starcraft MMO maybe halfway into WoW's life-cycle (so sometime next year, perhaps) and then WoW 2 when we've had 2 or 3 years of Starcraft MMO. Just a guess.

Yup. MMORPG sequels don't kill the predecessor right away. Look at EQ vs EQ2. What I'm saying is that I wouldn't want two separate franchises running side by side, actively campaigning to be the number 1 MMORPG, releasing expansion packs and really fighting for that top spot. Support WoW, sure, but be aware that the newer game needs the focus.

I wouldn't mind seeing a back-and-forth type of model. In 2015 or 16 we see another Warcraft MMO taking over for WoS.

If, again, this is true.

Exactly, back and forth. I'd be very surprised if they did it any other way.

All I know is, until players come up with actual skills and strategies for playing the other factions, the Zerg faction will dominate.

So long as something in the game says "Power...Overwhelming" I'll be happy

I don't buy anything posted on CVG. Look for Starcraft 2 to be an RTS.

Ulairi wrote:

I don't buy anything posted on CVG. Look for Starcraft 2 to be an RTS.

It could be an RTS AND an MMOG.. so they might not necessarily be wrong.

It could very well then also blend some rpglite features as well.

I would not be surprised if this turns out to be a PvP heavy RTS with a single "hero" who you play in an online "world".

I loved Star Craft as much as the rest of us but if this is WoW reskinned then I am not interested.

What is funny is that other games have come out and people complain there is no inovation but as soon as people mention WoW reskinned as Star Craft people are say "I'd buy that".

I hope they come up with something different if this does happen.

Since this is all speculative I am in a wait and see mode.

TheGameguru wrote:
Ulairi wrote:

I don't buy anything posted on CVG. Look for Starcraft 2 to be an RTS.

It could be an RTS AND an MMOG.. so they might not necessarily be wrong.

It could very well then also blend some rpglite features as well.

I could see that. the subscription based model is very nice, but Starcraft sold something like 10 million copies. That's a sh*t ton of cash...

I'll wait for the 19th.

I think their best bet for a StarCraft MMOG would be to go with the "MMOFPS" approach. Something like a more complex and in depth version of Planetside. Maybe throw in some squad based action for good times. I just don't see reskinning WoW unless you can only play as a Terran or Protoss as working out so well. I mean how much character development will you get out of a zergling or a hydralisk (not that playing one wouldn't be funny)? Doing it like planetside or a mmo version of the battlefield series could make for some pretty damned cool battles though with vehicles etc. They could even put in deformable structures and terrains and allow players to build bases just like the rts. I think if done right they could actually get an MMOFPS going with some longevity unlike Planetside which IMO is only amusing in short doses.

As for the SWG thing, while it was never really my cup of tea, I do think it was probably one of the ballsiest major MMO releases since EQ. It's the only one I can think of offhand that hit the 200k+ subs mark without being an EQ style mmo with a few added features. The game really did have a player based economy, city building, entertaining if a bit screwy PvP (combat medics and AT-STs were ridiculous), etc. JTL was also a lot of fun for any fans of x-wing, tie fighter, x-wing vs. tie fighter, etc. I mean who else has an MMO space based flight sim?!

As others have said, vehicles are key to the Starcraft experience. I don't see the point of having a Starcraft MMO that is WoW reskinned - it should really be more like Planetside with more RPG elements, imho.

mven wrote:

They could even put in deformable structures and terrains and allow players to build bases just like the rts.

That would be awesome! Blizzard could improve the Planetside deploying vehicle. (APS? AST? APT?) Instead of driving around in a mobile spawn point they could make a vehicle like the Galaxy transport that carries a couple "barracks kits" that it could drop. Infantry could gather and deploy the barracks to provide cover and obstructions to vehicles. It might work better if infantry carried a deployment beacon that would guide the "barracks kit" to the right spot so that they dont get stuck in trees or walls or on a steep side of a hill.

Here's to wishing World of Starcraft is Planetside with innovation.

IMAGE(http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2006/20060616.jpg)

mven wrote:

I think their best bet for a StarCraft MMOG would be to go with the "MMOFPS" approach. Something like a more complex and in depth version of Planetside. Maybe throw in some squad based action for good times. I just don't see reskinning WoW unless you can only play as a Terran or Protoss as working out so well. I mean how much character development will you get out of a zergling or a hydralisk (not that playing one wouldn't be funny)? Doing it like planetside or a mmo version of the battlefield series could make for some pretty damned cool battles though with vehicles etc. They could even put in deformable structures and terrains and allow players to build bases just like the rts. I think if done right they could actually get an MMOFPS going with some longevity unlike Planetside which IMO is only amusing in short doses.

As for the SWG thing, while it was never really my cup of tea, I do think it was probably one of the ballsiest major MMO releases since EQ. It's the only one I can think of offhand that hit the 200k+ subs mark without being an EQ style mmo with a few added features. The game really did have a player based economy, city building, entertaining if a bit screwy PvP (combat medics and AT-STs were ridiculous), etc. JTL was also a lot of fun for any fans of x-wing, tie fighter, x-wing vs. tie fighter, etc. I mean who else has an MMO space based flight sim?!

While I would love the idea of an innovative Planetside, I don't care if you pack every innovative feature found in any FPS from the last decade, it's going to fall flat on its face for all the same reasons that Planetside did; There are not enough people out there who play FPS games that are willing to pay $15 or more per month when they can play the same thing for free. While it wouldn't pack in the fun that we all want to see(I do include myself in this; I hate reskins), I simply have zero expectations of anything truly innovative at this point. It's far easier to reskin a proven product.

That's why I suggested more RPG elements. I'm thinking something like a sci-fi DAoC, with a similar focus on RvR (race vs race, here) combat. You can develop your character along several different lines - ground vehicles, air vehicles, advanced infantry (Firebat, Ghost, etc.). It might end up being something like an MMO of Starcraft: Ghost, now that I think about it.

WoW is not very like Warcraft, now that I think of it - I mean, Warcraft has bigger battles. I don't think a Starcraft MMO can BE Starcraft without big battles and lots of vehicles.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

That's why I suggested more RPG elements. I'm thinking something like a sci-fi DAoC, with a similar focus on RvR (race vs race, here) combat. You can develop your character along several different lines - ground vehicles, air vehicles, advanced infantry (Firebat, Ghost, etc.). It might end up being something like an MMO of Starcraft: Ghost, now that I think about it.

WoW is not very like Warcraft, now that I think of it - I mean, Warcraft has bigger battles. I don't think a Starcraft MMO can BE Starcraft without big battles and lots of vehicles.

Maybe not, but I sure as heck would try a reskinned WoW.

I've been interested in finding a Sci-fi style MMO for a while, and I love WoW. So, I suppose I might be their target audience. I probably will pass if it's a first person shooter, an RTS, or has lots of vehicles.

They could always do an FPS with a non-subscription based model. I dunno it just seems like making StarCraft into a traditional MMORPG based on games that have been mostly fantasy based would be pretty difficult to do without it turning out as pure crap. I'm sure they could sell a reskinned WoW no problem. It would be a disappointment though IMO.

Personally, I have been extremely happy with everything Blizzard has released. They take their time, they make their games enjoyable. Warcraft, Starcraft and Diablo have all been fabulous games, in each of their iterations. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until they deliver a crappy game.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

That's why I suggested more RPG elements. I'm thinking something like a sci-fi DAoC, with a similar focus on RvR (race vs race, here) combat. You can develop your character along several different lines - ground vehicles, air vehicles, advanced infantry (Firebat, Ghost, etc.). It might end up being something like an MMO of Starcraft: Ghost, now that I think about it.

WoW is not very like Warcraft, now that I think of it - I mean, Warcraft has bigger battles. I don't think a Starcraft MMO can BE Starcraft without big battles and lots of vehicles.

If Blizzard was the driving force, I could totally see this happening, and I would love it. However, on the flip side, I thought the same thing about WoW. "How on earth could they make an MMO out of an RTS without it turning into the same suckfest that DAoC was?" WoW came out fine, and it's a great game; kind of hard to argue with some 8.5 or 9 million people.

mven wrote:

They could always do an FPS with a non-subscription based model. I dunno it just seems like making StarCraft into a traditional MMORPG based on games that have been mostly fantasy based would be pretty difficult to do without it turning out as pure crap. I'm sure they could sell a reskinned WoW no problem. It would be a disappointment though IMO.

I don't know about you or anyone else, but I for one do not want to play an MMO on Battle.net. That's realistically the only way you'd get a non-sub model MMO out of Blizzard/Vivendi, and it would not be pretty.

Tyrian wrote:

Maybe not, but I sure as heck would try a reskinned WoW.

I've been interested in finding a Sci-fi style MMO for a while, and I love WoW. So, I suppose I might be their target audience. I probably will pass if it's a first person shooter, an RTS, or has lots of vehicles.

I suppose this is kind of the point I'm trying to make, in a round-a-bout way. Blizzard/Vivendi isn't selling games to the niche market, which regardless of how casual or hardcore you consider yourself to be, we're all very much a part of. I, as many others, would definitely pay for a Starcraft MMO in the vein that Fed or mven is describing. If it was as good in practice as it is in our heads, I'd honestly pay up to around $20 a month, and not blink an eye, since I'm that much more interested in a Sci-Fi MMO than another Fantasy MMO. The catch, and really the sad part, is that despite the optimistic squeals of joy at the idea of a Starcraft MMO, the realist(pessimist?) in me resigns myself to the apparent reality of a reskinned WoW, with probably a few less classes and an advanced job/ hero class type system, similar to the original plans for WoW or even FFXI, where you get to a point and actually change job based on your class progression up to that point.

Elysium wrote:

Pardon me for being the odd man out, but you gotta be frickin' kidding me. I've held my mouth shut about what a cash-in, cretively bankrupt job this would seem to me on the surface, because 1) It's Blizzard and 2) I didn't believe it, but come on.

I'll wait to pass judgment until we get more information. Hopefully they're doing something genuinely creative with this game - if it's actually being made - and not just creating a WoW total conversion. But if so, I will mock it ruthlessly.

Same here.

If it's true, well... f*ck you, Blizzard. Honestly, I don't think it's true. Blizzard has no reason to do it. It's not like WoW is hemorrhaging players, and Blizzard could literally sit back and collect cash on WoW without making anything else for years and still turn a healthy profit. Starcraft is more or less the national sport of South Korea. Why make another competitor in a market you already own when you have one of the most beloved IPs in history and infinite time and funds?

We can probably wait on the cursing and resigning until we actually know something, right? We may get no new game announcement at all.

Honestly, I don't think it's true. Blizzard has no reason to do it.

IMAGE(http://www.karmajay.com/money1.jpg)

It's not like WoW is hemorrhaging players, and Blizzard could literally sit back and collect cash on WoW without making anything else for years and still turn a healthy profit.

IMAGE(http://www.karmajay.com/money1.jpg)

Why make another competitor in a market you already own when you have one of the most beloved IPs in history and infinite time and funds?

IMAGE(http://www.karmajay.com/money1.jpg)

karmajay presents a convincing argument.

shihonage wrote:

karmajay presents a convincing argument.

Most definitely, which is something a lot of people seem to have a hard time grasping. However, I just had a random thought that was the culimination of many related thoughts I'd had today. Bear with me; this is going to be a wall of text. However, I'll try to break it out farily well.

Universe of Starcraft. The name itself is completely derivative of WoW, but then, so was Starcraft derivative of Warcraft. Funny how that works.

The Basics: Single player, mixed PvE/PvP leveling scheme, similar to what you'll find in DAoC and WAR. The gameplay is solo oriented, with a fair amount of group-required content. In this sense, it's not terribly different from LoTRO or WoW currently; However, I'm leaning towards the LoTRO structure of quest design with its WoW styled gameplay and interface elements. It's already out there and polished, so why remake the wheel?

Leveling/Questing: The intended, easiest form of leveling is the main questline(What LoTRRO refers to as the Epic). Additionally, there's any number of errand boy style sidequests to be found where ever you currently find yourself. As to the Epic itself, I had something along the lines of the main story from FFXI. It's a very long, involved quest that starts you off doing errands, but ultimately wraps you up in International Intrigue. Unlike FFXI, there would be no level cap quests, and while there would be significant amounts that require a group to complete, I'm imagining it similar to instancing in WoW now. I'm not a fan of having to compete for spawns. Mainline quest rewards would be primarily XP, with some character related stuff on the side.

Side quests, however, I'd like to see work a bit differently. This might seem a bit weird to some, but here's my thought on Side quests: Since ideally, the mainline quest will be enough to get you completely through a zone, how do you handle these? There needs to be incentive, yet if you don't need them for advancement, what does that leave? Alternate Advancement. An EQ style AA, or FFXI style Merits. I'm leaning towards merits over AAs, mainly since I'm more familiar with Merit points. I think it would be easier to Tier out, which would keep people from padding certain stats exclusively, and force a broader balance.

Character Advancement: The closest approximation I can come up with is SWG. However, unlike SWG which allowed free retraining, once you select a 'path', you're locked into that path. As your character advances through the primary questline, and you gain XP, you can spend it on skills within your path that allow you to specialize. This is simlar to SWG, in that you're almost forced down certain paths by the skills you choose. Similar to SWG though, I think that secondary skills at a slightly higher, or perhaps even coming from Merit/AAs at an increased cost to them would also be viable. It would be difficult to balance, similar to SWG, however, I feel that the end result would prove well worth it. Or you could just say 'hell with balance, not all characters are created equal'.

Gear is also a fairly important aspect of a character. However, I'm all for the complete elmination of the gear differential. So what's that mean? As has been put forth by a few folks here, you are essentially assigned gear. AAs/Merits can be used to customize it according to your path, and will be an inherent part of character specialization. To me, this lends itself to the idea of 'not all toons are created equal'.

PvP: This brings us to PvP. So, assuming that no balance, witihin reason(Don't think that being completely OP won't get you nerfed), how does this work? Simple, everything has strengths and weaknesses. Learn to use your characters to exploit the weaknesses of others.

The PvP system itself strikes me as needing to be somewhat similiar to a lot of things, but mainly SWG. However, similar to RvR or BGs, I'd say instance it. I suppose it's really just super-enhanced RvR, really.

Everything else: The ultimate endgame, then I suppose is kind of difficult to implement in a game that would have a fairly major tilt towards PvP. For the PvE crowds, there could be something similar to the current state of WoW endgame; larger dungeons involving strategy. I suppose in this, you'd find something of the larger scale RTS style gameplay found in Starcraft itself. I don't have any illusions of AI or scripting being near what it needs to be to dynamically react to player strategy. I suppose in that, it's a good thing that UoS is a couple years off.

So, that's all I've got. To me, this is pretty much the optimal Starcraft MMO; mainly because it blends a lot of things I enjoyed beyond belief in other MMOs; the large, overarcing plot from FFXI, SWG style character advancement, and while I've never played DAoC and WAR isn't out yet, the idea behind WAR's RvR system seems extremely intriguing, but mabe that's just me. So, lay it on me. If something sucks, make it better. If somethings good, make it better.

I just have a hard time grasping Blizzard making a Starcraft MMORPG similar in any shape or form to WoW (or SWG) I'm banking on an RTS with a much greater emphasis on online play with persistent and semi-persistent aspects.

They (Blizzard and Viv) will look to expand their MMOG marketspace... not rape their existing one.

There may be a Starcraft MMORPG at some point.. just not now.. I'm thinking ~10 years from now... and there will be a full fledged "sequel" to WoW first.

TheGameguru wrote:

I just have a hard time grasping Blizzard making a Starcraft MMORPG similar in any shape or form to WoW (or SWG) I'm banking on an RTS with a much greater emphasis on online play with persistent and semi-persistent aspects.

They (Blizzard and Viv) will look to expand their MMOG marketspace... not rape their existing one.

There may be a Starcraft MMORPG at some point.. just not now.. I'm thinking ~10 years from now... and there will be a full fledged "sequel" to WoW first.

If Blizzard is looking to make another RTS, then they'll very likely just make another RTS. While persistancy can work on a larger scale in tabletop strategy games(Warhammer tabletop is a good example of this), that's also on a much smaller scale.

Next, like I and others have stated, pretty much anything that comes out with Blizzard's name on it from here on out isn't being driven by Blizzard; it's being driven by Vivendi, and karmajay put it far more eloquently and precisely than I could. Expanding the market means taking a concept that works, and applying it to another genre or sub-genre. In this case, it's taking a proven fantasy MMO and applying those concepts to a Sci-Fi MMO.

God damn it. I want my Starcraft 2, NOT another online unstoppable cash machine. I said it before, and I'll say it again: If we ever want another offline game from Blizzard that's worth a crap then WoW needs to be deflated. Ever since I heard that something would be announced on May 19th I've been giddy with anticipation that it'd be Starcraft 2. My mind refused to let me believe that they'd hate me and release WoS, knowing full well I wouldn't be able to resist the siren song of MMORPG addiction any longer.

Screw you, Blizzard. I enjoy willpower. Don't break mine.

I agree with the fact that Blizzard will take it's time to turn out a good game. WoW exceeded my expectations, and eventually caused me to switch from DAoC where I was a pretty devoted player for almost 4 years. Likewise, there are sure to be some pretty big bugs at the beginning much like WoW and every single MMORPG that has been released has had. Therefore, while I'm sure I will eventually try it out. It won't be when it gets released, and probably 3/4 way towards World of Starcraft's first expansion. By then (typically), most of the bugs have been worked out and I can play the game as it was intended by Blizzard to be played without dealing with all the "OMG NERFS!" going on before that. (Granted, I play a pally, so I'm a glutton for the nerfbat).

Well read yesterday's Penny Arcade where they link an Escape interview with Richard Garriot. One point made in the article was the idea of making subscriber churn your friend. RG noted that it's likely that the majority of WoW players today are different players than 2 years ago. He said generally after 10 months a subscriber leaves an mmo game. And so the idea for him and NCSoft is to make churn your friend. You do that my offering other mmorpgs or other mmo game experiences. So instead of the customer churning out to a competitor they churn out to one of your other games. IT's a good argument for Blizzard doing another MMo game already.

They're re-announcing Starcraft:Ghost for the 360. It will still be a third person action game but it will have a whole new take on the genre!

  • Incredible new weapons! Laser rifles, flamethrowers, grenades, and an assault rifle that has a special powered melee attack!
  • Innovative new gameplay! Multiplayer, singleplayer, and cooperative! Deathmatch and capture the flag game modes!
  • Use high explosives to collapse Zerg Nydus Canals, thus stopping enemy reinforcements!
  • Revive your fellow Space Marines!
  • Call in the fearsome nuclear missile strike!