Are you a "Good" Role Player?

BlackSheep wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:
H.P. Lovesauce wrote:

I think it's the whole "inscrutability" thing. That and the fiendishness, of which the scheming is a part.
---------------
H.P. Lovesauce
Director, Sax Rohmer Institute for Sino-American Relations

So what you're saying is that I'm a better gamer for not having played Jade Empire? I did play some Oriental Adventures d20 a few years back. Where does that leave me?

Tsk. Tsk. Embarrassingly red-faced is where it should leave you. They only made Oriental Adventures so doofuses could play 'ninja' with each other and have reasons to show off their throwing stars, circa 1985.

Someone decided our regular D&D party needed a terribly anal and guilt-ridden ronin. It's not really my fault! I blame terrorists and video games!

wordsmythe wrote:
BlackSheep wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:
H.P. Lovesauce wrote:

I think it's the whole "inscrutability" thing. That and the fiendishness, of which the scheming is a part.
---------------
H.P. Lovesauce
Director, Sax Rohmer Institute for Sino-American Relations

So what you're saying is that I'm a better gamer for not having played Jade Empire? I did play some Oriental Adventures d20 a few years back. Where does that leave me?

Tsk. Tsk. Embarrassingly red-faced is where it should leave you. They only made Oriental Adventures so doofuses could play 'ninja' with each other and have reasons to show off their throwing stars, circa 1985.

Someone decided our regular D&D party needed a terribly anal and guilt-ridden ronin. It's not really my fault! I blame terrorists and video games!

Ok, ok, so you went with the early '90s kick on Samurai and this whole, 'fallen Samurai' makes good, honorable mercenary BS that Ronin end up being. Sweetness. I think I would have passed my note to the DM that I would put my wakizashi in his throat the minute he fell asleep.

BlackSheep wrote:

Tsk. Tsk. Embarrassingly red-faced is where it should leave you. They only made Oriental Adventures so doofuses could play 'ninja' with each other and have reasons to show off their throwing stars, circa 1985.

I liked the weapon pics.

Quintin_Stone wrote:
BlackSheep wrote:

Tsk. Tsk. Embarrassingly red-faced is where it should leave you. They only made Oriental Adventures so doofuses could play 'ninja' with each other and have reasons to show off their throwing stars, circa 1985.

I liked the weapon pics.

Argh... as someone who actually trains in Western Martial Arts, the weapon pics (and armor pics) in every handbook drives me nuts. Ooh! A double-bladed sword so I can be like Darth Maul! Yeah, not happening. Ooh! I'll use a spiked chain. Yeah, not happening. Ooh! That sword weighs in at 10 lbs! Is it made of lead?!

For a system that is so dependent on combat as its bread & butter, they sure to have a sorry way of resolving or even instituting some of the lethality of the weapons used and its all a matter of and beating some number based on armor to de-hit-point someone. I really like the Conan system so much better -- I wish D&D would adopt something like it.

Why do you kill my childhood, Sheep? WHY?

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Why do you kill my childhood, Sheep? WHY?

Your Avatar itself is giving props to the most effective weapon in all warfare prior to the rifle.

Spears are so unjustly dealt with. I've seen a 5 ft 110 lb girl wielding a spear completely knock a 300 lb man in armor off his feet. Nothing ruins your day more than getting hit solidly with a spear anywhere..

Spearfighting itself is fun, I liken it to a wild west shootout at high noon when two people with spears go at it.

BlackSheep wrote:

Ok, ok, so you went with the early '90s kick on Samurai and this whole, 'fallen Samurai' makes good, honorable mercenary BS that Ronin end up being. Sweetness. I think I would have passed my note to the DM that I would put my wakizashi in his throat the minute he fell asleep.

Cliched role playing? Sir, you do me a dishonor! I mostly played up the problem of having a samurai running around with these round-eyed weirdos whose language be barely understood and whose ethics and culture were neigh indiscernable. At least he kind of understood the caster. They both meditated.

Also, I think my avatar shows off a pretty sweet weapon, too!

wordsmythe wrote:
BlackSheep wrote:

Ok, ok, so you went with the early '90s kick on Samurai and this whole, 'fallen Samurai' makes good, honorable mercenary BS that Ronin end up being. Sweetness. I think I would have passed my note to the DM that I would put my wakizashi in his throat the minute he fell asleep.

Cliched role playing? Sir, you do me a dishonor! I mostly played up the problem of having a samurai running around with these round-eyed weirdos whose language be barely understood and whose ethics and culture were neigh indiscernable. At least he kind of understood the caster. They both meditated.

Also, I think my avatar shows off a pretty sweet weapon, too!

Sounds like fun. No, really, it does.

By the way, I'm glad you're done avatar experimenting. I like this one much better than the other one you've trotted out before the masses.

I think this is my third. I figure it's just an avatar anyway, so I'll just leave it.

BlackSheep wrote:

Your Avatar itself is giving props to the most effective weapon in all warfare prior to the rifle.

Spears are so unjustly dealt with. I've seen a 5 ft 110 lb girl wielding a spear completely knock a 300 lb man in armor off his feet. Nothing ruins your day more than getting hit solidly with a spear anywhere..

Spearfighting itself is fun, I liken it to a wild west shootout at high noon when two people with spears go at it.

I've been thinking of playing a spearfighter next time we get around to doing D&D. I think 3rd edition handles reach and such a bit better, so a spear might have more advantage. Plus, good against mounted charges.

I'm actually ticked that there isn't more potential for evil in games, particularly in MMOs, where I spend much of my time these days.

There is something really cathartic about GTA, which I guess is the only real example we have to point at. In GTA III, you can pretty much do what you want, so long as you aren't caught. Even then, the penalty is nominal, and doesn't actually get in the way of the missions.

But you can go alot further there than you can in any other title I have played.

I'm disappointed that you really can't cut lose and just be a complete bastard in role playing games. In KOTOR, even if you acted "bad" it really ended up being "misunderstood" because the story forced you down a path like it or not.

Similarly, there is no difference between good or evil in something like WoW, because even the Horde have good reason for being opposed to the Alliance, and generally, there is a code.

I feel comfortable being the "good guy" because I am that the other 22 or so hours a day that I am not gaming. Yet gaming is an escape, an opportunity to try on other personas, and have experiences that just won't happen to us waiting in line at Starbucks, and in that sense, I think game developers have let us down.

Quintin_Stone wrote:
BlackSheep wrote:

Your Avatar itself is giving props to the most effective weapon in all warfare prior to the rifle.

Spears are so unjustly dealt with. I've seen a 5 ft 110 lb girl wielding a spear completely knock a 300 lb man in armor off his feet. Nothing ruins your day more than getting hit solidly with a spear anywhere..

Spearfighting itself is fun, I liken it to a wild west shootout at high noon when two people with spears go at it.

I've been thinking of playing a spearfighter next time we get around to doing D&D. I think 3rd edition handles reach and such a bit better, so a spear might have more advantage. Plus, good against mounted charges.

It is the weapon I usually choose. I'm not big on the rules, though I have a distinct familarity with them. I think I mentioned this before, but if you ever get a chance to pick up a Conan player's handbook, take a look at how armor and weapons are done in their D20 system. Its an awfully interesting approach that I feel credits certain armors and weapons more and at least attempts to take into account the basic types of weapons (slashing, piercing, bludgeoning) and how they react to the various types of armor.

mateo wrote:

I'm actually ticked that there isn't more potential for evil in games, particularly in MMOs, where I spend much of my time these days. [...]

There's a real issue for MMOs. I agree with you, but I understand how the designers would feel compelled not to cater to you. Evil in an MMO will almost always get slapped with the term "griefing." The issue starts with protecting new characters from their own weakness, but expands to protect all sorts of people who just don't want real RP. That's where I think the issue is a problem. Then again, I can see almost no draw to an MMO without RP -- which is why I don't play 'em.

But ultimately, RP where everyone is some variation on He-Man is not good RP (IMO). Characters without faults -- ethically or otherwise -- are creatures of children's books and Saturday morning TV.

wordsmythe wrote:

But ultimately, RP where everyone is some variation on He-Man is not good RP (IMO). Characters without faults -- ethically or otherwise -- are creatures of children's books and Saturday morning TV.

Yet few people fail to realize this. I think this is a by-product of our movie-saturated culture in that the personal problems of the protagonist are pooh-poohed (though they're usually present, they're minimalized) and s/he is able to overcome and win the day while riding off in the sunset.

Unfortunately, heroes are defined not by the deeds they necessarily do in literature, but by their ultimate sacriface at whatever altar has risen them up to the impossible status of 'hero.'

Connecting this to the thread, I wish I had a group of RPers that understood this so I could run this game I've had on my mind for a long, long time.

BlackSheep wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:

But ultimately, RP where everyone is some variation on He-Man is not good RP (IMO). Characters without faults -- ethically or otherwise -- are creatures of children's books and Saturday morning TV.

Yet few people fail to realize this. I think this is a by-product of our movie-saturated culture in that the personal problems of the protagonist are pooh-poohed (though they're usually present, they're minimalized) and s/he is able to overcome and win the day while riding off in the sunset.

Unfortunately, heroes are defined not by the deeds they necessarily do in literature, but by their ultimate sacriface at whatever altar has risen them up to the impossible status of 'hero.'

Connecting this to the thread, I wish I had a group of RPers that understood this so I could run this game I've had on my mind for a long, long time.

"Do you hear that, Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability."

I just need some free time and some friends to help start a NWN(2) persistant world.

wordsmythe wrote:

"Do you hear that, Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability."

I just need some free time and some friends to help start a NWN(2) persistant world.

Hmm.. I'll be your friend.

Unfortunately, I don't have my NWN disk anymore. My old CD-ROM literally ate the mofo.