9/11 Mastermind Confesses

It wouldn't surprise me if it's a way for him to communicate that the confessions are coerced, not truthful. This administration isn't inclined to hire talented people, so this probably slipped right past them.

That's assuming, of course, that he somehow found out about the Plaza bank and worked it into his testimony. It could also be an error or misunderstanding/mistranslation on our part.

I also am implying that we may not have tortured him at all

The CIA actually acknowledged that they water-boarded KSM, as reported by ABC News on Nov 18, 2005. They noted that they got "debatable results" from the torture, btw. This kicked off a huge debate at the time about what constitutes torture. Note that waterboarding was considered torture by the US up until the Bush Administration, which reclassified it as a "harsh interrogation method" or somesuch. (For example, we tried a Japanese officer for waterboarding a US civilian during WWII, in 1947, and the State Department listed it as torture in describing human rights abuses in Tunisia in 2005.) It's quite likely that KSM is exaggerating what he went through, but the admission is not reassuring.

Given AQ's long lead-times, I'd think that after an event that occurred after KSM's capture, they'd be likely to work it into his interrogation.

Robear wrote:

the State Department listed it as torture in describing human rights abuses in Tunisia in 2005.

Pot, meet kettle.

Nosferatu wrote:

Axon,
What I meant was they were sure this guy did a whole host of things before they grabbed him, unlike your family who was apparently being harassed for little to no reason (at least according to what you posted, I'm sure the police have a diffrent story).

My family and I have no association with the IRA and never had. That whole above comment is way over the line of civil discourse. In fact the more I think about it, it is clearly a veiled insult. One I can only hope was made in pure ignorance. Let me fix it for you,

Nosferatu wrote:

Axon,
What I meant was they were sure this guy did a whole host of things before they grabbed him, unlike your family who was being harassed for no reason

In future, If I want your opinion on my family history I'll give it to you.

Axon, I believe what Nosferatu was implying is that the police made up charges to justify their actions, not that your family was really guilty of any crime.

LobsterMobster wrote:

Axon, I believe what Nosferatu was implying is that the police made up charges to justify their actions, not that your family was really guilty of any crime.

I dunno. I kind of read it the way Axon did -- that Nos was calling his family a bunch of lying terrorists.

Paleocon wrote:
LobsterMobster wrote:

Axon, I believe what Nosferatu was implying is that the police made up charges to justify their actions, not that your family was really guilty of any crime.

I dunno. I kind of read it the way Axon did -- that Nos was calling his family a bunch of lying terrorists.

I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure Nos will let us know which it was. And if he DID mean it the way you two read it, then he clearly owes Axon an apology as that's a horrible thing to say about anyone's family, particularly one that's been through such hardships.

As Robear says, we ourselves have defined waterboarding as a war crime when it was done to us. We executed a Japanese officer who ordered waterboarding done to our GIs, and sentenced the enlisted men involved to prison terms, I believe at hard labor.

Axon wrote:
Nosferatu wrote:

Axon,
What I meant was they were sure this guy did a whole host of things before they grabbed him, unlike your family who was apparently being harassed for little to no reason (at least according to what you posted, I'm sure the police have a diffrent story).

My family and I have no association with the IRA and never had. That whole above comment is way over the line of civil discourse. In fact the more I think about it, it is clearly a veiled insult. One I can only hope was made in pure ignorance. Let me fix it for you,

Nosferatu wrote:

Axon,
What I meant was they were sure this guy did a whole host of things before they grabbed him, unlike your family who was being harassed for no reason

I stand by my original statement, you gave your side only and expect me to believe 100% that it was the whole and total truth. It never is the whole and total truth. Thus the conditionals I placed on the original statement.

Unless the police went about routinely harassing everyone in Ireland, they had to have believed they had some sort of reason they singled out him and his family (whether it was a real reason or just bad info on their side), and thus repeatedly came into their lives. Unless Axom is suggesting that to the police merely being Irish means you are in the IRA.

Axom wrote:

In future, If I want your opinion on my family history I'll give it to you.

Was that a Freudian slip there? in the future if I want your opinion on what I meant, I'll ask you for it.

Yes, Nosferatu is completely correct. Axon's family couldn't possibly have been innocent; after all, they were suspects.

Nosferatu wrote:

Unless the police went about routinely harassing everyone in Ireland, they had to have believed they had some sort of reason they singled out him and his family (whether it was a real reason or just bad info on their side), and thus repeatedly came into their lives. Unless Axom is suggesting that to the police merely being Irish means you are in the IRA.

You obviously didn't read his post. His parents weren't Irish people living in Ireland, they were Irish living in London.

So who's next on your skepticism list? African-Americans who claim that their parents were harassed by authorities during the 1960's in the southern US?

His conclusion seems logical. If not everyone is harassed, then the harassment must have some reason behind it, even if, as Nos states, it's a bad reason or one made on false information. Maybe you looked at somebody funny? Didn't show the proper amount of fear?

Farscry wrote:

You obviously didn't read his post. His parents weren't Irish people living in Ireland, they were Irish living in London.

So who's next on your skepticism list? African-Americans who claim that their parents were harassed by authorities during the 1960's in the southern US?

Maybe I have too much faith in humanity and assume that the total assholes are few and far between. And that most of the cops were honest decent people, who wouldn't judge him and his family simply based upon where their family origins were.

Nosferatu wrote:

And that most of the cops were honest decent people, who wouldn't judge him and his family simply based upon where their family origins were.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ha HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA hehehehehehe HAHAHAHAHAHA
Dude, you are FUNNY!
People that AREN'T cops can't resist judging people merely because of their origins. What makes people with guns and authority any more enlightened?

Rezzy wrote:
Nosferatu wrote:

And that most of the cops were honest decent people, who wouldn't judge him and his family simply based upon where their family origins were.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ha HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA hehehehehehe HAHAHAHAHAHA
Dude, you are FUNNY!
People that AREN'T cops can't resist judging people merely because of their origins. What makes people with guns and authority any more enlightened?

I don't think they are, I am a very bizarre person who rationally expects the worst of everyone, but somewhere deep in my subconscious I believe that most people are basically good people. I know it's a contradiction .

Axom:
OK I can see how you might have taken what I wrote as an implication that you and your family were involved with the IRA. I do not hold this opinion, as I do not know anything about you or your family other than what you have posted here. I hesitate to explicitly state without conditions anything that I myself haven't witnessed (that comes from dealing with legal types a lot, you learn to leave yourself room for future changes if new facts arrive), even then stating that it is what I think I saw. I try to be as accurate as possible and to clarify whenever I can with parenthetical comments. I only had one side of the story to go from, so they statement I entered reflected that fact. I wouldn't trust a reporter/cop/anyone that only gets one side of a story and takes it for the "Gospel Truth", that is just the way I am (and I fully admit to be quite a contrary by nature).

If it helps any I don't have any reason to believe that you nor your family was involved with the I.R.A.. Simply being Irish shouldn't be a crime, nor imply involvement in said organization.

Nosferatu: you seem to think it would be okay for the police to harass his family if they were IRA -- without charges being pressed. Without evidence, Just based on suspicion.

Even scumbags have rights. If you don't have rights when everyone thinks you're slime, when your government hates you and wants you dead, you don't really have rights at all.

Rights that are removed as soon as you actually need them are platitudes that mean nothing.

(and yes, Britain is different from the US, but the fundamental harassment-without-charges thing applies across cultures.)

Axon,

So to recap:

If the bobbies should arrest you and break off your dick...

It's cause you're guilty and not just a mick.

I apologize for my misinterpretation.

Paleocon wrote:

Axon,

So to recap:

If the bobbies should arrest you and break off your dick...

It's cause you're guilty and not just a mick.

Nice reference Paleo.

Nosferatu wrote:

I don't think they are, I am a very bizarre person who rationally expects the worst of everyone, but somewhere deep in my subconscious I believe that most people are basically good people. I know it's a contradiction .

Strangely enough, I have the same contradictory belief. I think that rationally, people are selfish by nature, and that selfishness drives their actions. However, deep inside, part of me believes in the best in people and gives them the benefit of the doubt even when I probably shouldn't.

2. I was responsible for the 9/11 Operation, from A to Z.

this is the one that irks me and makes it seem like his entire confession was written for him. other than the people whuppin' his ass twenty-four seven, he hasn't spent a great deal of time around native english speakers. the phrase itself, while common to us, doesn't really translate well. not really about whether or not he is guilty, it's just a bloody odd thing for someone like him to say.

kung fu grip wrote:
2. I was responsible for the 9/11 Operation, from A to Z. Hook, line and sinker. The whole nine yards. Lock, stock and barrel. As sure as Paris Hilton's a whore.

this is the one that irks me and makes it seem like his entire confession was written for him. other than the people whuppin' his ass twenty-four seven, he hasn't spent a great deal of time around native english speakers. the phrase itself, while common to us, doesn't really translate well. not really about whether or not he is guilty, it's just a bloody odd thing for someone like him to say.