9/11 Mastermind Confesses

43. I appreciate being interrogated by such a loving country that never resorts to torture.
44. I'm a compulsive liar, especially under duress.

Maybe so.

Lobster's Link wrote:

Mohammed was arrested in March 2003 in a surprise raid by FBI agents and Pakistani security police at a house in Rawalpindi, outside the Pakistani capital.

7. I was responsible for planning, training, surveying, and financing the New (or Second) Wave attacks against the following skyscrapers after 9/11:
a. Library Tower, California,
b. Sears Tower, Chicago,
c. Plaza Bank, Washington state,
d. The Empire State Building, New York City.

http://www.plazabankwa.com/about.asp

Why Plaza Bank?

An idea that began with a conversation between two regional business leaders, Mike Sotelo and Cris Guillen, has become the most widely anticipated Bank launch in the Pacific Northwest.

Founded in early 2006, with a vision of creating the leading commercial bank in the Pacific Northwest, Plaza Bank's story quickly captured the hearts and passion of some of the region's leading business minds. From Jack Creighton, former CEO of Weyerhaeuser and United Airlines, to former Seattle Mariner Edgar Martinez, and nationally acclaimed salon operator Gene Juárez, the story of a bank founded to bring "class to the mass" simply could not be contained.

Please tell me there's another Plaza Bank tower type thing in Washington State.

He has a time machine.

Edwin wrote:

He has a time machine.

No, no, Edwin. You did it wrong.

45. I admit that Al Queda has developed a time machine.

You guy's have just found a rich vein of comic gold running through this thread.

Keep 'em coming

46. I supplied the RPG and Volkswagon bus that killed Dr. Emmett Brown.

47. I rented the time machine from Biff Tannen.

47. I am in ur countrie, hitting ur targetz.
I was responsible for planning, training, surveying, and financing the assassination of Adolf Hitler in 1945

More proof of a time machine

48. I was responsible for creating and selling the idea of Friend Codes (you can see a picture of me decapitating your mii on the internet)

49. I smelt it and I dealt it.

50. I wrote this past season of Battlestar Galactica.

And somebody's a filthy skimmer, though I give credit for the photoshopping.

51. All your base are belong to us.

52. I am the one-armed man.

Edit:
On topic, I don't really know how I feel about torture. The idea of a interrogater and a tortured detainee turns my stomach and yet cases like Lt. Col. West don't bother me in the slightest. West outright threatened to kill the detainee (apparently after some of his enlisted tuned the guy up) and then discharged his 9mil right next to the guy's head. The Iraqi policeman believed that West was going to blow his brains out and then cooperated. That doesn't bug me. And yet KSM believeing he was going to drown does bother me.

Maybe it's because I've had the "pleasure" of dealing with Iraqi police.

53. I raised the price of the Halo 3: Legendary Edition
54. I know where Jimmy Hoffa is.

55. I killed Nicole and threw my glove into O.J.'s back yard.

56. I wrote the end scene of Halo 2.

57. I thought X-Men 3 was great.

58. I am not much of a dogfighter.

Torture's a weird issue, mostly because we aggressively will not come to a consensus on just what the definition of torture is. Is torture sleep deprivation? Is torture the breaking of social and religious taboos? Is shaming someone torturing them? I don't think any of these things are torture. Though, I do wish there were more accountability involved for the interrogators. Far from pretending these things don't happen, they need to be made more systemic, brought into the general democratic level. I don't mind coercing information out of someone who it is reasonable to believe is a terrorist, but I'm made nervous by the idea that there's no accountability for being wrong on that count. I want the "torture" we're hearing about to be regulated and overseen. It would make sure that they aren't using a shotgun approach by just dragging in everybody and their mom. And it would make sure that the methods used do not ever actually cross into the realm of REAL torture. Wartime does necessitate a different set of rules in some ways, but I think beyond a certain point it's too far, no matter what.

No offense, but if it took 3 years they weren't "torturing" the guy. besides all he has to do is claim that he was and now people are going to assume that it was done, and the public will want the burden of proof to be on the military to prove he wasn't (like anyone wants to watch 4 years worth of 24/7 video of this guy (which itself might be considered torture by some, the total lack of privacy)).

[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...
BBC ON THIS DAY | 19 | 1989: Guildford Four released after 15 years]The Guildford Four[/url]. [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...
ON THIS DAY | 14 | 1991: Birmingham Six freed after 16 years]The Birmingham Six[/url]. [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...
BBC ON THIS DAY | 4 | 1976: Guilty verdict for 'Maguire Seven']The Maguire Seven[/url]. Sleep deprivation worked a treat in all 3 situations. Problem was everyone was innocent. Of course quite a few in Britain, at the time, thought a democracy couldn't have carried out such a miscarriage of justice much like now in America. I fail to see how something that coerces confessions out of that many people to be anything but torture. I really think the people who state that sleep deprivation as anything but torture aren't quite sure what it involves either.

My heart goes out to ordinary Muslins in the world right now. During the 70s, my parents lived and worked in London during the height of the IRA bombing campaign. My mother cried with shame when the bodies of young English boys and girls were carried from the rubble of pubs in Guildford and Birmingham. Over the following months and years my father was harassed and his offices raided by the police and our house was monitored by MI5. After Anne Maguire, 42, was carried kicking and screaming from the dock shouting "I'm innocent you bastards. No, no, no." my parents decided they couldn't stay any longer. We can see a frightening similarities in both America and Britain right now and there are a few worrying stories.

That being all said, how Lt. Col West handled that incident is a credit to himself, his service and his country. He had to do a sh*tty thing, then reported himself, accepted the punishment. His situation and how it was handled it pretty much how I see a democracy has to or can handle it. Torture should always be a crime but sometimes a crime has to be commited for a greater good. That crime though has to be punished and seen to be punished and never viewed as a tool of the state.

Axon,

Yer linx is broke.

Axon wrote:

[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...
BBC ON THIS DAY | 19 | 1989: Guildford Four released after 15 years]The Guildford Four[/url]. [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...
ON THIS DAY | 14 | 1991: Birmingham Six freed after 16 years]The Birmingham Six[/url]. [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...
BBC ON THIS DAY | 4 | 1976: Guilty verdict for 'Maguire Seven']The Maguire Seven[/url]. Sleep deprivation worked a treat in all 3 situations. Problem was everyone was innocent. Of course quite a few in Britain, at the time, thought a democracy couldn't have carried out such a miscarriage of justice much like now in America. I fail to see how something that coerces confessions out of that many people to be anything but torture. I really think the people who state that sleep deprivation as anything but torture aren't quite sure what it involves either.

My heart goes out to ordinary Muslins in the world right now. During the 70s, my parents lived and worked in London during the height of the IRA bombing campaign. My mother cried with shame when the bodies of young English boys and girls were carried from the rubble of pubs in Guildford and Birmingham. Over the following months and years my father was harassed and his offices raided by the police and our house was monitored by MI5. After Anne Maguire, 42, was carried kicking and screaming from the dock shouting "I'm innocent you bastards. No, no, no." my parents decided they couldn't stay any longer. We can see a frightening similarities in both America and Britain right now and there are a few worrying stories.

That being all said, how Lt. Col West handled that incident is a credit to himself, his service and his country. He had to do a sh*tty thing, then reported himself, accepted the punishment. His situation and how it was handled it pretty much how I see a democracy has to or can handle it. Torture should always be a crime but sometimes a crime has to be commited for a greater good. That crime though has to be punished and seen to be punished and never viewed as a tool of the state.

I'm missing the part where you stated your dad was a known leader in the IRA...
and um it might be possible to prove that Mohammed did indeed behead someone on camera. Also he reportedly said the CIA tortured him, which would be before he was put in GB.

I understand the dislike of torture, but I mean taking this guy at his word for anything is kinda tough for me. I mean we are talkign about a guy who (allegedly) plans to have his people kill themselves (not say send a soldier on a dangerous mission where they might be killed, but on a mission where the soldiers death is an integral part of the plan), I don't think that I'd be relying on his "morale compass" to keep him in line with our notions of what is right and wrong.

Nosferatu wrote:

I'm missing the part where you stated your dad was a known leader in the IRA...
and um it might be possible to prove that Mohammed did indeed behead someone on camera. Also he reportedly said the CIA tortured him, which would be before he was put in GB.

Nosferatu, can you clarify what you are saying here? Was it ok how my family was treated? Is it ok to torture once its not on American soil? Honestly you have me a little stumped. Btw, I'm not defending the guy. I know very little about him. Its the practice of torture I've the problem with.

Nosferatu wrote:

I understand the dislike of torture, but I mean taking this guy at his word for anything is kinda tough for me. I mean we are talkign about a guy who (allegedly) plans to have his people kill themselves (not say send a soldier on a dangerous mission where they might be killed, but on a mission where the soldiers death is an integral part of the plan), I don't think that I'd be relying on his "morale compass" to keep him in line with our notions of what is right and wrong.

Didnt make myself clear there. I'm not really interested in the individual case here but it does display the limits of torture. I was singling out sleep deprivation as pretty good torture. They confessed to a crime that they never committed using sleep deprivation. Its not a coercive technique, its out and out torture.

Assuming we do the correct thing once we abandon the rule of law is a dangerous assumption. And yes I mean "we" cause those flight go through Irish airports.

Lets be clear, enforcement is more than possible against terrorist organizations and its stunning to see all the lessons learned by the SAS in N.I. abandoned in the face of panic. The IRA started its last ceasefire thanks in no small part to the efforts of the Intelligence Services and the SAS to gather intelligence and infiltrate the IRA. Both organization tried torture, shoot-to-kill and targeted assassinations and they failed miserably. They only ever led to increased support for the IRA.

This "Moral Compass" debate is null and void as the Romans figured out. You either wipe everyone out or you present yourself as the far better option. If you play with grey areas or think you can force someone to like you, well history is littered with the failures of that route and scant successes.

I am dismayed that I have to constantly bring up the historical examples of the Russians in both Afghanistan and Chechnya as well as the French in Indochina and Algeria. It is hard to find "better" examples of profligate torturers in the latter 20th century than those two nations. Neither are particularly useful examples when it comes to successful ways to deal with insurgencies or terrorist groups.

If you think torture works, you really aren't paying attention.

59. I am the Lindberg baby.

Update, Gitmo just churned out another Al Qaida to confess to the USS Cole bombing. He was also Osama's bodyguard, helped with 9/11, fortified Tora Bora, etc. etc.

"It's good that this guy wants to confess, although I have questions about the veracity of his claims," said Jamal Gunn, 26, of Virginia Beach, Virginia, whose brother, Cherone Gunn, was killed aboard the Cole.

This sums up my feelings precisely. I'd be wonderful, absolutely wonderful if both of these men did what they claim they did and now can be brought to justice. However, the timing is perfect, and that they're both out of Gitmo makes me wonder (though it could just be that they were both high value prisoners and so kept at the same location).

If a man is a monster, you do not need to exaggerate his crimes.

By torturing those men, we give up all pretense of moral authority; they'll say anything we want them to say, and the rest of the world knows it.

JoeBedurndurn wrote:
Lobster's Link wrote:

Mohammed was arrested in March 2003 in a surprise raid by FBI agents and Pakistani security police at a house in Rawalpindi, outside the Pakistani capital.

7. I was responsible for planning, training, surveying, and financing the New (or Second) Wave attacks against the following skyscrapers after 9/11:
a. Library Tower, California,
b. Sears Tower, Chicago,
c. Plaza Bank, Washington state,
d. The Empire State Building, New York City.

http://www.plazabankwa.com/about.asp

Why Plaza Bank?

An idea that began with a conversation between two regional business leaders, Mike Sotelo and Cris Guillen, has become the most widely anticipated Bank launch in the Pacific Northwest.

Founded in early 2006, with a vision of creating the leading commercial bank in the Pacific Northwest, Plaza Bank's story quickly captured the hearts and passion of some of the region's leading business minds. From Jack Creighton, former CEO of Weyerhaeuser and United Airlines, to former Seattle Mariner Edgar Martinez, and nationally acclaimed salon operator Gene Juárez, the story of a bank founded to bring "class to the mass" simply could not be contained.

Please tell me there's another Plaza Bank tower type thing in Washington State.

Wow. Good catch.

Axon,
What I meant was they were sure this guy did a whole host of things before they grabbed him, unlike your family who was apparently being harassed for little to no reason (at least according to what you posted, I'm sure the police have a diffrent story).
I also am implying that we may not have tortured him at all, I can complain about how Bob came over and raped my dog last night fairly easily... doesn't mean I know a Bob or own a dog.

About the plaza bank building, so um they get Fox in GB then? how would this guy even know the building was there? and if you are going to say they tortured him and handed him a script... you'd think we'd have done a tad more research on it.

Nosferatu wrote:

About the plaza bank building, so um they get Fox in GB then? how would this guy even know the building was there? and if you are going to say they tortured him and handed him a script... you'd think we'd have done a tad more research on it.

They don't even let prisoners in US jails watch the news. Just educational, self-help and religious programs. And you'd HOPE we'd have done a tad more research on it. On the other hand, there are people out there that still believe Saddam had WMD's and helped in the 9/11 attack. The fact that this is the ONLY place I've seen that contradiction noted suggests to me that A) the media isn't doing its job, and B) whoever wrote the script was counting on A.

Like you said, they were sure this guy did a host of things when they grabbed him. And like I said, if a man is a monster you don't need to exaggerate his crimes. There is clearly something here that doesn't add up, and it involves information that the man in question could not have had. If he did somehow find out about the Plaza Bank and noted it, you'd hope the government would look to corroborate his claim before issuing a release on the subject. If he didn't, he was clearly instructed to say that, or never even said it at all.