The big "How do I choose an HDTV?" thread.

It's CES time which means 2017 HDTV's are getting announced.. and its already starting..

LG shows off its impossibly thin and likely crazy expensive OLED TV

http://www.theverge.com/ces/2017/1/4...

I would love the 77" version for my living room wall..but I suspect it will be north of $50K

Samsung shows of its Quantum Dot LCD's which they claim (lol) is better than OLED.

http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreak...

No doubt will be priced very high.. probably higher than LG's 2017 OLED lineup.. and I'm sorry but if its still going to need backlight then how is it going to be better than OLED? I will have to wait and see in person to believe Samsung's claims. But if its not cheaper than OLED it better be much better and have tangible benefits (no Image Retention.. better blacks or HDR capability.. lower input lag etc.)

TheGameguru wrote:

It's CES time which means 2017 HDTV's are getting announced.. and its already starting..

LG shows off its impossibly thin and likely crazy expensive OLED TV

http://www.theverge.com/ces/2017/1/4...

I would love the 77" version for my living room wall..but I suspect it will be north of $50K

Samsung shows of its Quantum Dot LCD's which they claim (lol) is better than OLED.

http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreak...

No doubt will be priced very high.. probably higher than LG's 2017 OLED lineup.. and I'm sorry but if its still going to need backlight then how is it going to be better than OLED? I will have to wait and see in person to believe Samsung's claims. But if its not cheaper than OLED it better be much better and have tangible benefits (no Image Retention.. better blacks or HDR capability.. lower input lag etc.)

Better than last year's OLED... maybe. Peak brightness does matter to a degree, but 2000 nits sounds like it would cause damage to one's retina. Won't be surprised if OLED hits 100% color gamut this year, or very close to it.

Some more details about LG's 2017 OLED Lineup

http://www.avsforum.com/lg-oled-tvs-...

Looks like the curved C is now a regular flat C... and 3D has been purged across the board.

And they are up on LG's site as well

http://www.lg.com/us/ces/products.jsp

Some details on the new HDMI spec

https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/04/...

TheGameguru wrote:

Some more details about LG's 2017 OLED Lineup

http://www.avsforum.com/lg-oled-tvs-...

Looks like the curved C is now a regular flat C... and 3D has been purged across the board.

And they are up on LG's site as well

http://www.lg.com/us/ces/products.jsp

Is that just for this line, or is 3D on TV dead for now? I only pay attention to TV tech when I'm in the market.

I hope not, but there aren't many movies being released in 3D blu-ray any more. My Sony XBRwhatever does a good job with it and I enjoy the experience, but my old Panny Z plasma was the most amazing 3d experience I had ever had. Still mad at myself for burning the Diablo 3 HUD into that thing. Anyway, it seems to be dying out.

Trashie wrote:
conejote wrote:
Trashie wrote:

So my lovely wife surprised me with a PS4 Pro for Christmas. I hooked it up to my Samsung KS8000 TV (4K HDR ready) and started some configuration. When it works, it looks great. Uncharted 4 is a jaw-dropper. However, I'm getting a weird inconsistent problem - when I first start up a HDR game, the TV tells me it's now playing HDR content. However, I get weird "blinks" in the video. The screen will go black for a second and then the TV will tell me it's showing HDR video again. Like it's switching resolutions or something. It repeats pretty frequently when I first launch something but eventually (after maybe five minutes) it goes away.

I've searched around online and found a variety of people reporting this problem but with no solid solution. What's mind-boggling is that it eventually sorts itself out and is stable. Could it be the cable? I'm using the brand new HDMI cable that came with the PS4 Pro. I'm not sure what else it might be. Any thoughts?

I haven't run into problems with the combination of those two devices (also using the cable that came with the Pro), but it did take some setting up in advance. In the Pro advanced settings, make sure the output is set to Auto (not RGB or YUV 2160p). In fact, just set everything to Auto in that menu. In the KS8000 settings, switch to Game Mode and make sure UHD HDMI is turned on for all ports. But, you have to manually adjust the brightness to 20, or you'll see the HDR message but you won't really be getting it. Set the Color Space to Auto and Smart LED to High. Plus, you have to manually turn on HDR in some game menus.

Tested out a new AmazonBasics HDMI 2.0 cable last night and the issue seems to have resolved itself. Hopefully, it's stable.

Quick question about the settings comment above - do you mean manually adjust Blacklight up to 20? Brightness is a 1-100 scale and if I move it up to 100, the picture is very washed out. I typically keep it around 45.

Sorry, yes, back light. It's supposed to automatically go up to 20 when there's an HDR source, but currently it doesn't work right in Game Mode. So, just set it manually to 20 for that input only. I also keep brightness around 45.

Sheesh.. the OLED floodgate has opened.. Panasonic.. Sony.

https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/04/...

Hybrid Log-Gamma HDR.

Nope..nope.. somebody line up the Marketing dept on the wall.

Hybrid Log-Gamma HDR isn't a marketing term really. It's the setup that they decided on over in the UK for broadcast OTA HDR signals, not some silly marketing mess. IIRC they paired up with some Japanese companies to work out all the details.

Panasonic has a bigger presence overseas than they do here, or at least seem to based on TV reviews from UK based sites where Panasonic actually has relevant TV's listed. Unlike the US where they've basically been out of the TV race since they jumped ship on Plasma sets. But their larger presence over there would make advertising compatibility with the OTA HDR standards over there a thing they should probably do.

I remain skeptical of QLED's supposed advantages over OLED.

My B6 already gets bright enough in spots in HDR content that it can hurt my eyes a bit if I'm watching in a dark room, and I do the vast majority of my movie watching in a dark room. TV is maybe more like, dimly lit. Either way the set is more than bright enough. 2,000 nits definitely sounds ridiculous. I guess if you had to face the TV toward big open windows or something that might be a help? I dunno. Seems like a race to see who can make the brightest screen is a silly thing to focus on.

Unbelievable .. LG's OLED is 2.77mm thick. Would love to see one of things in action.

Thin_J wrote:

Hybrid Log-Gamma HDR isn't a marketing term really. It's the setup that they decided on over in the UK for broadcast OTA HDR signals, not some silly marketing mess. IIRC they paired up with some Japanese companies to work out all the details.

Panasonic has a bigger presence overseas than they do here, or at least seem to based on TV reviews from UK based sites where Panasonic actually has relevant TV's listed. Unlike the US where they've basically been out of the TV race since they jumped ship on Plasma sets. But their larger presence over there would make advertising compatibility with the OTA HDR standards over there a thing they should probably do.

I remain skeptical of QLED's supposed advantages over OLED.

My B6 already gets bright enough in spots in HDR content that it can hurt my eyes a bit if I'm watching in a dark room, and I do the vast majority of my movie watching in a dark room. TV is maybe more like, dimly lit. Either way the set is more than bright enough. 2,000 nits definitely sounds ridiculous. I guess if you had to face the TV toward big open windows or something that might be a help? I dunno. Seems like a race to see who can make the brightest screen is a silly thing to focus on.

One reason I read is that 2000nits is full white brightness, so colors will always be significantly dimmer. I guess if you could get individual colors up to 1000nits that may be worthwhile.

Did I miss it or has CES been mostly gimmick free for TVs this year? Everyone is pushing HDR and OLED neither of which strike me as being as gimmicky as curved or 3D or even 4K did last year (I still don't think there is enough content to really justify 4K at this point). Did see a couple of gimmicky marketing things for sound (LG's 4K Soundbar for instance), but most of the TV stuff seems to just be natural evolution/tech advances that are pretty easy to universally understand why it is a good thing.

Honestly, this is why I thought all along that getting a 4K TV made more this year than last. There is some worthwhile tech to get, but I had to believe that last year was a learning curve.

There was basically one or two TVs that were close to what gamers want. I fully expect several companies to hit that mark this year and actually compete with each other.

Bits are coming out about 144hz 4k HDR Gsync displays for PC's. That's where all my gaming's going to happen once I make that particular leap.

It'll have a stupid price, but I'll end up doing it eventually anyway.

At which point my TV will become a pure Movies/TV show display.

Thin_J wrote:

Hybrid Log-Gamma HDR isn't a marketing term really. It's the setup that they decided on over in the UK for broadcast OTA HDR signals, not some silly marketing mess. IIRC they paired up with some Japanese companies to work out all the details.

Panasonic has a bigger presence overseas than they do here, or at least seem to based on TV reviews from UK based sites where Panasonic actually has relevant TV's listed. Unlike the US where they've basically been out of the TV race since they jumped ship on Plasma sets. But their larger presence over there would make advertising compatibility with the OTA HDR standards over there a thing they should probably do.

I remain skeptical of QLED's supposed advantages over OLED.

My B6 already gets bright enough in spots in HDR content that it can hurt my eyes a bit if I'm watching in a dark room, and I do the vast majority of my movie watching in a dark room. TV is maybe more like, dimly lit. Either way the set is more than bright enough. 2,000 nits definitely sounds ridiculous. I guess if you had to face the TV toward big open windows or something that might be a help? I dunno. Seems like a race to see who can make the brightest screen is a silly thing to focus on.

Huh it was so wacky I figured it was a made up marketing bullsh*t...wow

Thin_J wrote:

Bits are coming out about 144hz 4k HDR Gsync displays for PC's. That's where all my gaming's going to happen once I make that particular leap.

It'll have a stupid price, but I'll end up doing it eventually anyway.

At which point my TV will become a pure Movies/TV show display.

OLED or gtfo.. Anymore LCD's just annoy me.. the backlight bleed..ips glow.. all of it just sucks anymore.

I do hope variable refresh comes to OLED via the new HDMI spec to eliminate screen tear... I would love 60+hz but lets face it at 4K even with SLI Titans I dont often get above 60fps at 4K

Thin_J wrote:

Bits are coming out about 144hz 4k HDR Gsync displays for PC's. That's where all my gaming's going to happen once I make that particular leap.

It'll have a stupid price, but I'll end up doing it eventually anyway.

At which point my TV will become a pure Movies/TV show display.

My TV will always be a hub for gaming. My wife spends all day working on a computers, and has no interest in gaming on a PC, but she does like playing games on the couch. My wife would also rather me game in the living room with her than to go off into a man cave. It's what keeps me from investing in a gaming PC.

But if one doesn't want to game on a TV, I think the selection of a good 4K TV becomes much easier.

Sony showed off their OLED sets

https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/05/...

My new TV always seems to be 2 years in front of me.

I can't figure out if I made the right choice at just the right time, or the wrong one at just the wrong time.

I wanted my TV to 'last' for four years minimum. That means be a solid performer for that time, knowing it would be superseded each year. And after four years I assumed OLED would be much cheaper.

One month ago I bought a KS7000( US8000) hoping assuming that there wouldn't be a new HDMI standard for a few years and that any changes would be minor compared to 4K and HDR. It was a highly rated set at an OK price. I was also assuming prices for tech would either go up because of Brexit or discounts would be less frequent, so buy before that happens.

For HDMI 2.1, the colour and metadata sounds impressive, but I assume it won't be as big a difference between the jump from normal colour to HDR. Also that game devs aren't going to spend ages trying to crank out every little gradation of colour. Film and TV companies might, but maybe it won't affect me as much because I only stream films.

VRR sounds really useful, but I'd have to have a console that supports it and games that take advantage of it. Maybe Scorpio will, but that's a year away. Perhaps PS5 will, but let's say that's two years away. Then the industry has to catch up and the majority of games would need it. (By this time more and more games should be using basic HDR, which my TV supports.)

Realistically I can't easily return my TV -and I don't want to go back from 4K 55" to 43" 1080 -but I'm still looking for some informed reassurance from strangers online about how good my thinking was.

Fancy new tech in TV either never gets adopted or slowly gets adopted as it comes down to mainstream pricing. It's always dumb to buy into new TV tech at an inflated price since it either won't get adopted widely or superseded down the road for better and cheaper.

1Dgaf wrote:

I can't figure out if I made the right choice at just the right time, or the wrong one at just the wrong time.

I wanted my TV to 'last' for four years minimum. That means be a solid performer for that time, knowing it would be superseded each year. And after four years I assumed OLED would be much cheaper.

One month ago I bought a KS7000( US8000) hoping assuming that there wouldn't be a new HDMI standard for a few years and that any changes would be minor compared to 4K and HDR. It was a highly rated set at an OK price. I was also assuming prices for tech would either go up because of Brexit or discounts would be less frequent, so buy before that happens.

For HDMI 2.1, the colour and metadata sounds impressive, but I assume it won't be as big a difference between the jump from normal colour to HDR. Also that game devs aren't going to spend ages trying to crank out every little gradation of colour. Film and TV companies might, but maybe it won't affect me as much because I only stream films.

VRR sounds really useful, but I'd have to have a console that supports it and games that take advantage of it. Maybe Scorpio will, but that's a year away. Perhaps PS5 will, but let's say that's two years away. Then the industry has to catch up and the majority of games would need it. (By this time more and more games should be using basic HDR, which my TV supports.)

Realistically I can't easily return my TV -and I don't want to go back from 4K 55" to 43" 1080 -but I'm still looking for some informed reassurance from strangers online about how good my thinking was.

I think it really only affects you if keep reading about the new tech that comes out each year. From everything I've heard, your TV will stay relevant for the 4 year time frame you're looking at. OLED will very likely be more common place by then, and competition will drive prices down. I won't be surprised if an 8k set launches in the next four years, pushing 4k sets to become truly mainstream.

Good read on the 4 (!) HDR formats

http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/5/141...

1Dgaf wrote:

I can't figure out if I made the right choice at just the right time, or the wrong one at just the wrong time.

I wanted my TV to 'last' for four years minimum. That means be a solid performer for that time, knowing it would be superseded each year. And after four years I assumed OLED would be much cheaper.

One month ago I bought a KS7000( US8000) hoping assuming that there wouldn't be a new HDMI standard for a few years and that any changes would be minor compared to 4K and HDR. It was a highly rated set at an OK price. I was also assuming prices for tech would either go up because of Brexit or discounts would be less frequent, so buy before that happens.

For HDMI 2.1, the colour and metadata sounds impressive, but I assume it won't be as big a difference between the jump from normal colour to HDR. Also that game devs aren't going to spend ages trying to crank out every little gradation of colour. Film and TV companies might, but maybe it won't affect me as much because I only stream films.

VRR sounds really useful, but I'd have to have a console that supports it and games that take advantage of it. Maybe Scorpio will, but that's a year away. Perhaps PS5 will, but let's say that's two years away. Then the industry has to catch up and the majority of games would need it. (By this time more and more games should be using basic HDR, which my TV supports.)

Realistically I can't easily return my TV -and I don't want to go back from 4K 55" to 43" 1080 -but I'm still looking for some informed reassurance from strangers online about how good my thinking was.

You did very well. Good job!

Thanks all. I feel a bit less stressed about it now.

Question about "game modes." I have this mode on my Samsung KS8000 and my understanding is that it turns off much of the post-processing tech to improve input lag. I tried it last night on Gears of War 4 and found that I really noticed not have the "smoothing" post-processing. I tried to test to see if I could notice the input lag and convinced myself that I really couldn't. However, it's hard to really be objective about .22 ms vs .44 ms.

Given that I've been playing pretty twitching games like Overwatch, Titanfall and BF1, am I crazy? Should I be noticing the input lag or is this one of those personal preference things?

Trashie wrote:

Question about "game modes." I have this mode on my Samsung KS8000 and my understanding is that it turns off much of the post-processing tech to improve input lag. I tried it last night on Gears of War 4 and found that I really noticed not have the "smoothing" post-processing. I tried to test to see if I could notice the input lag and convinced myself that I really couldn't. However, it's hard to really be objective about .22 ms vs .44 ms.

Given that I've been playing pretty twitching games like Overwatch, Titanfall and BF1, am I crazy? Should I be noticing the input lag or is this one of those personal preference things?

should be 22ms and 44ms. You're not crazy, you're talking about a difference of 1.5 frames or so in a 60fps game. A lot of people who are not ThinJ wouldn't notice. If you don't, you're fine leaving game mode off.

If you have that Tru-Motion or Smooth Motion or MotionFlow or whatever the heck Samsung calls their frame interpolation/smoothing thing turned on the input lag isn't 44ms. It's around 110ms. This is a pretty normal thing with TV's when that frame rate smoothing stuff is turned on. It's a lot of processing and so generally a huge increase in input lag. 100ms to me is a basically debilitating.

If it's not noticeable or if it is but doesn't feel like a hindrance to you then shrug, count it as a win, and choose whatever settings on the TV you like best and ignore everything else.

I dunno how you can stand it though

I already gave up gaming on my OLED because 50ms is annoying when I'm playing The Division. The idea of the delay more than doubling is... oof. Just no.

OK - I'll try it with a couple of games that aren't GOW4 to see if I notice the difference at all.

Noticing the input delay can happen in odd places. I forgot to put game mode back on in Watch Dogs 2 and didn't really notice - until I went into the skill tree. Moving around the upgrades felt a bit off and that's when I decided to check what mode I was in.