Final Fantasy XII Impressions (Spoiler-Free)

Hey Zero, quick question.
Shane from 1up was prattling on about how the summons are weak. Did you get that at all?

4 hours in. Still going slow, but I still have a good feeling that it'll pick up soon. I'm getting a little used to the grid now, but call my old school since I'd prefer the only level up system I'm used to in the million other RPGs I've slaved through.

Desram wrote:

Hey Zero, quick question.
Shane from 1up was prattling on about how the summons are weak. Did you get that at all?

Summons aren't supposed to be relied on like they were in the past. They are to be "get out of desperate situation NOW" cards.

Zero, I love you. I really wanted FFXII to not suck. I hold your opinion in high regards because it is very similar to mine. Now I have to add FFXII to the list.

My impressions of FF-XII in simple sentences:

I'm at level 54 now. Almost all the licence board is open/filled (golden amulets/rings, meh ). So far combat is not very challenging. Grind is way too easy (not that i dont enjoy it). Story is slow. Localization is excellent. Music is rubbish. Hated Vagrant story. So not much love for character artwork from me for FF-XII. Summons are a pain to use. [/simple sentences]

In general i find this game satisfactory. Several things tho.

Summons. I totally hate the way summons work here. You have to keep your summon alive until it "decides" to kick in full force. Say in boss fight, whats gonna happen is your summon is gonna get killed outright unless you stay away and heal it constantly untill it decides to do its stuff. If you dont - it just dies without dealing any major damage. So, whats the point then ? I do miss "old school" summons, where if summoned, everything dies

Music. In general i love every single FF i played for its music. ('cept maybe FF-X2's pop crap). But this is (i'll be politically correct here) - uninspiring at best. It just is not memorable. Reeks of mediocrity. There are some catchy tunes, but majority is just a buzz, a cinematic filler that'll be forgotten as soon as you turn your console off. Any FF would best it. Even FF6 snes.

Battlesystem is pretty good, gambits, once you get to use them properly, are a great thing to have.

I worry about licence system. What happens once its filled up and unlocked in full? Can you customize it as a spheregrid, by removing and replacing cells ? Is there a break limit for damage/hp/mp/whatnot ?

I may sound as someone stuck on FFX. Its just because i am

I find FF8 battle system much better than FF7,9 btw. Now, even some years from my last FF8 play i still pull R2 to get criticals. On many games not related to FF at all

Never played FF-XI - i find MMORPGs waste of time and money.

General feeling is "glass half empty", rather than my expected optimistic. In the end its a solid game, but post FF-X it just doesnt hold up to things i value the most. All this write up to be dismissed as a personal opinion and not a review. All of this is based on about 70h playtime. (i got my sources.)...

Vrikk wrote:
Desram wrote:

Hey Zero, quick question.
Shane from 1up was prattling on about how the summons are weak. Did you get that at all?

Summons aren't supposed to be relied on like they were in the past. They are to be "get out of desperate situation NOW" cards.

Exactly. I actually haven't used them too much, though, and instead used quickening combos when in a tight spot. From what I can tell, though, each esper has certain criteria that must be met before it will use its super attack, as Threedee indicated. However, if they have been summoned in an appropriate scenario (ie, fire esper against a fire weak monster) they still seem to deal out massive damage on the way to those criteria being met.

Still though, I think that Shane is probably right in that you won't find much opportunity to use them, which is a shame.

Music. In general i love every single FF i played for its music. ('cept maybe FF-X2's pop crap). But this is (i'll be politically correct here) - uninspiring at best. It just is not memorable. Reeks of mediocrity. There are some catchy tunes, but majority is just a buzz, a cinematic filler that'll be forgotten as soon as you turn your console off. Any FF would best it. Even FF6 snes.

I'll grant you that there aren't as many memorable melodies as games scored by Nobuo Uemetsu, but I have to disagree with you about it being mediocre. Your use of the word cinematic is appropriate, though, as it underscores the fact that the approach for the soundtrack has changed from previous FF games to be more like that of an epic film. Instead of being a patchwork quilt of disparate styles and catchy tunes, the soundtrack is instead a consistent, flowing set of appropriate mood setting orchestral melodies. It is much more subdued than other FF games, but I think it suits the more serious and mature themes of the game well.

I assure you, I'm as big a FF music nerd as anyone -- I have just about every soundtrack, piano collection, and miscellaneous bit of music released since FF4 -- but I think the change is good. It is sad to say, but Uemetsu seemed to have been getting a bit tired. The FF10 soundtrack still had some excellent tracks, but it was patchy, and some of its best themes were contributed by other composers. In fact, I think that his most inspired work was on the SNES games, where despite the limitations of the hardware he was able to produce some of the most memorable and impactful music I have ever heard in a video game. So again, FF12 is a change for the series in a lot of ways, musical direction included, and while I understand if other FF diehards may not be pleased with it, I think it is nice to see the game branching out and exploring new things in many aspects of its design.

I may sound as someone stuck on FFX. Its just because i am

Fair enough. I can certainly understand that (as you may have seen, I rate the game very highly amongst the other entries in the series), and I think that biggest shame about FF12 is that it will alienate people who desperately wanted more of the same. But you can't be everything to everyone, eh?

I picked up FFXII yesterday at best buy (I actually got a $15 dollar gift certificate with my purchase, must be trying to steal market share from Gamestop) and WOW is all I can say. The world of Ivalice (from final fantasy tactics) is just awesome – the game has such a cool medieval feel to it (knights, peasants etc) and the FMVs are gorgeous (If you saw FFVII advent children you can just imagine). They really begin the game in an up-tempo way, as you're drawn directly into the conflict. Licenses are a cool idea. They make the "level up" less relevant to which direction you take each character in. The new "no battle screen" system is cool to – it makes those tiny, repetitive fights seem to go much quicker. Its very KOTOR-esque (the screen pauses when you bring up the battle menu and then your character moves to striking distance when you issue a command and the action continues). The character animation is quite good too, with walking around just looking much more "natural." The game has drawn me in very successfully (poo-poo on those who say the music isn't good, I say it fits nicely with the theme). I'm three hours in (inside the castle) and loving it. This is quite an achievement for Square-Enix. Bravo.

Fair enough. I can certainly understand that (as you may have seen, I rate the game very highly amongst the other entries in the series), and I think that biggest shame about FF12 is that it will alienate people who desperately wanted more of the same. But you can't be everything to everyone, eh?

Not being like FFX is a huge reason I'm going to get the game. I couldn't stand FFX but from everything said here, I think I'll enjoy this entry. I find that GWJ user reviews are the ones I agree with most.

Zero is so right it hurts

But still, i do dislike the fact Nobuo Uematsu left. I kinda got used to the "distinctive sound" his music makes.

I've been around professional music all my life, my father was a pro musician in a big opera house, so i got to listen to "a bunch of a lot" of instrumental music, and this is where this dislike stems from. I've heard good, i've heard bad, and FF12 is somewhere in the lower middle...Just doesnt cut it for me. I'm that sort of a audiophile that is interested in "feeling" rather than technicality/correctness. I never listen to lyrics for that matter. Its irrelevant for me. I, btw am omnivore in genre sense - my likings range from extreme weirdness (My Dying Bride) to pop (Sting, Roxette) to classic to extreme classic stuff(Organ music ? ).
All this braggery is just to say that for me it just doesnt invoke any feeling. Its just a filler. A buzz. A buzz that is not unpleasant. It just doesnt live up to the music i've grown accustomed to have in FF games.

Meh. I'm starting to repeat myself... Game - good, Music - no good

threedee wrote:

Meh. I'm starting to repeat myself... Game - good, Music - no good :D

Ok, I have a question for you. What did you think of the music in FFVII? I ask only because I haven't finished FFXII yet. I really like the score from that game. However, you won't catch me listening to it in my spare time. I'd further assert that music is filler in an RPG – it's a catchy tune that plays in the background while you battle/walk around. Music can add elements to the game (suspense, happiness, even a since of epic-ness hah) but it's hardly a make or break. Perhaps I'm more of a lyrical driven listener (not entirely true, but my lyric to non-lyric ratio weighs heavy on the lyrical end), but music in an RPG is ancillary – it can add or subtract slightly, but its all about how the game plays.

FFXII is shaping up to be my favorite one in the franchise since FFVI, and in many ways evokes many similar themes and "feels" rather similar. FFXII also feels in many ways like a sequel to Vagrant Story.

I'm absolutely in love with the game, and whereas Dragon Quest 8 was so satisfying to me with it's updated presentation but wholly old-school classic gameplay, FFXII is so far satisfying me with the way it's completely re-doing the gameplay of Final Fantasy but yet managing to still feel right and be completely fun.

They've done almost everything right so far in the nine hours I've sunken into this game so far. Not flawless, no, but incredibly well-done!

And Zero is sparing me the need to write up long, detailed posts on this.

I can't wait to get home from work and pick up where I left off!

FFXII also feels in many ways like a sequel to Vagrant Story.

One of the clan ranks is even called "riskbreaker." I always thought that was a stupid title, but it's still a nice little homage.

I should stop reading this thread... or all of you can stop posting how good the game is! That would work just as well.

Although I do have a copy of FFXII sitting on the shelf, I'm trying to finish TotA before I'll start FFXII.

After 8 hours of play last night I declare this game to be awesome. It's amazing how they have melded the best parts of FFXI and X together. If I have one gripe it's that i'd prefer a straight job system similar to XI and Tactics to all this license stuff. But that's a minor gripe. One thing I find funny is that I keep catching myself taking the shortest path to treasure chests to avoid as many random encounters as possible, and then remembering "oh yeah there are no random encounters".

Nateaudio, for me, a well-done rpg soundtrack (or other story-driven game) is much like a movie soundtrack, and enjoyable to listen to on its own for the same reasons. Some people don't see the point in listening to soundtracks, others do. Me, I love to when I'm in the mood for it.

And Stric9, I keep finding myself doing that as well! It's nice to be able to meander and enjoy the sights. I don't mind random encounters, but this system works great too.

Nateaudio, for me, a well-done rpg soundtrack (or other story-driven game) is much like a movie soundtrack, and enjoyable to listen to on its own for the same reasons. Some people don't see the point in listening to soundtracks, others do. Me, I love to when I'm in the mood for it.

A good soundtrack for me is one that gives me a chance to aurally 'recognize' moments or events in game. FFVI was excellent with that. If I were to experience my interaction with the game on no other level than my hearing, I would still know generally what was going on, whose storyline was prevalent, and what mood the character is feeling. As long as the FFXII soundtrack covers these basics, I'm not too concerned with how filler the rest is.

Oh I thought of one more minor gripe. Frankly the in game graphics are a little underwhelming. It's weird they are mostly better than FFX but sometimes you'll get at a certain angle and it just looks hideous. How is it that in the five years since FFX came out that they haven't figured out a way to do a little anti-aliasing? The game looks good most of the time but Shadow of the Colossus for instance looks a lot better.

Also videos in widescreen mode don't fill the entire screen. Looks like they didn't bother to redo the aspect ratio for 16:9 sets which is fine, but for some reason they also have a gap on the bottom of the screen as well. Not quite sure what's going on there but it looks weird during the pre-rendered scenes.

Stric9 wrote:

Also videos in widescreen mode don't fill the entire screen. Looks like they didn't bother to redo the aspect ratio for 16:9 sets which is fine, but for some reason they also have a gap on the bottom of the screen as well. Not quite sure what's going on there but it looks weird during the pre-rendered scenes.

I noticed this too, and my other graphics gripe is that it doesn't support output in 720p or 1080i. I've gotten used to games on PS2 that allow for HD output, and I get a little 'screen door' effect on my HD set.

I think I remember reading that it almost plays more like a MMORPG even though it isnt one, where basically you setup gambits to program your party. Is that type of analogy true? Do you get that MMORPG sense of carefully pulling monsters etc? Thats the one thing I miss about the original EQ and WoW is the pulling.. it felt like strategic hunting.

Another thing I just remembered. The star wars similarities are crazy, from the opening scene to the first time you see the judge it's uncanny. I like it but knowing how lawsuit happy Lucas is i'd watch out if I were Square.

I think I remember reading that it almost plays more like a MMORPG even though it isnt one, where basically you setup gambits to program your party. Is that type of analogy true? Do you get that MMORPG sense of carefully pulling monsters etc? Thats the one thing I miss about the original EQ and WoW is the pulling.. it felt like strategic hunting.

It definitely feels a lot like an MMO in some ways. There have been a few times where I wanted to pull monsters but the fact that my hero doesn't have a ranged skill yet and the fact that i'd have to turn off all my other characters gambits to get them to not run up to the monster and attack prevents this. But yeah the outdoor areas have a lot in common with FFXI from the design, combat, and notorious monsters. The combat also has a very similar feel to FFXI but at the same time it's a lot like FFX.

I've only got about two hours in and those were at an hour of the morning that cannot be mentioned in polite company but I have to say I am very very happy. The game strikes a very nice balance between control and chaos. At first the combat system seemed like the bastard stepchild of X-2 and Kingdom Hearts 2. That was until I made myself stop and actually watch what was really happening.

I do recommend that if you decided you "hate" the combat system when you've just gone one guy, hold out until you get more party members. You start to see the reason for it quick, fast, and in a hurry.

There are no graphical or technical visible panty lines I've found (unlike Enchanted Arms).

BTW, for the record I would like to say that zero's detailed posts on the game are exactly the kind of thing I like to read in these forums. GWJ can't review every game, we need to help each other out.

momgamer wrote:

There are no graphical or technical visible panty lines I've found (unlike Enchanted Arms).

Nice.

Farscry wrote:

FFXII is shaping up to be my favorite one in the franchise since FFVI, and in many ways evokes many similar themes and "feels" rather similar.

I can't wait to get home from work and pick up where I left off!

Sweet, keep playing it for a couple weeks until I catch up to you in WoW!

Fedaykin98 wrote:
Farscry wrote:

FFXII is shaping up to be my favorite one in the franchise since FFVI, and in many ways evokes many similar themes and "feels" rather similar.

I can't wait to get home from work and pick up where I left off!

Sweet, keep playing it for a couple weeks until I catch up to you in WoW! :wink:

I don't think that'll be a problem, sir. The siren call of Ivalice demands that I heed it! I'm sure it'll keep me from gaining more than, say, two more levels in WoW over the next couple weeks.

I've been playing in 16:9 as well, and while at first the cutscene rendering at the top of the screen instead of the middle was rather disconcerting, it's no problem to me at all (I replayed part of it in 4:3 to make sure, and nothing gets chopped off the top). However, it does show the limits of playing a game in widescreen when it's limited to 480i. I haven't decided yet if I'd rather play in 4:3 with the sharper effective image, or continue in widescreen with the horizontal pixels rendering wider. I've gone back and forth a couple times and can't make up my mind. I love the widescreen aspect ratio, especially in combat, but the picture is so much sharper in 4:3. I'd really, really love to have this game in 720p, though it's still gorgeous as it stands.

I'd be posting a lot more, but really, most of what I have to say about the game is a reiteration of what Zero elaborated on yesterday while I was too busy playing it to write about it. I just have to say that all of my concerns on the game had evaporated over the course of the first few hours playing. At this point, it's all good and I'm thoroughly excited to dive back into it when I finish dinner after work.

Frankly the in game graphics are a little underwhelming. It's weird they are mostly better than FFX but sometimes you'll get at a certain angle and it just looks hideous. How is it that in the five years since FFX came out that they haven't figured out a way to do a little anti-aliasing? The game looks good most of the time but Shadow of the Colossus for instance looks a lot better.

The game is certainly a bit patchy in terms of visuals, particularly when compared to FF10 of FF10-2. However, there are some very understandable explanations: scale and free camera. First of all, everything about this game is huge and feels huge, and which is something I haven't really been able to say since the SNES games, honestly. But that kind of scale requires tradeoffs. You cannot hand craft every inch of the world for one, and you will notice a lot more tiling, particularly in ruins and caves, than in the last few FF games. You also can't ensure that every inch of texture is going to be stunning to look at. Also, on aging hardware like the PS2 there is only so much you can do when rendering large, open environments. Then there is the fact that this is really the first FF game is a free roaming camera. When the designers could pick and choose and predict the camera positions, they could make sure everything you saw looked good. If the player can control the camera, though, you loose the ability to do a lot of the tricks that made FF10 and FF10-2 pop visually.

Compared to Shadow of the Colossus, there is only one thing to say. Level of detail. SotC is one of the most visually stunning games for the PS2, but most of its environments are very sparse. If you look closely you can tell that they had to think very hard about what deserved a fine level of detail and what did not. It's a mind blowing piece of work, but they did sacrifice a lot of things that FF12 does not, and hence FF12 has to sacrifice things that SotC did not.

Personally, I loved the visual fidelity of FF10 and FF10-2, and I am a bit disappointed that it is not always there with FF12. However, I think that for the game they were making the tradeoffs are acceptable, and it is nice to have the sense of scale that FF12 does have that FF10 does not. (Remeber the first time you stepped out on the Calm Lands in FF10? I've had that feeling dozens of times in FF12, and it is fabulous.)

Another thing I just remembered. The star wars similarities are crazy, from the opening scene to the first time you see the judge it's uncanny. I like it but knowing how lawsuit happy Lucas is i'd watch out if I were Square.

Yeah, early on it does very much have that vibe. I'm not sure if I just stopped paying attention or if the story took some different twists, but it seemed to go away after the initial exposition of the story.

I do recommend that if you decided you "hate" the combat system when you've just gone one guy, hold out until you get more party members. You start to see the reason for it quick, fast, and in a hurry

Indeed. The combat system was not meant for just one character.

I swear, Zero, you keep this up and you and Fedaykin will be like my astral plane alter egos, each one sitting on one of my shoulders.

Farscry wrote:

I swear, Zero, you keep this up and you and Fedaykin will be like my astral plane alter egos, each one sitting on one of my shoulders.

Well that's eerie. Look at the time stamps:

http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/2...

Also, Gabe from PA's first thoughts:

Kara and I started playing FF XII last night. Only got a few hours in but my initial impressions are actually positive. It's interesting, Kara is the one playing it and she actually really likes the move away from random battles and turn based combat. Apparently those are not the things she likes about the FF series. She's a WOW player and FFXII is essentially an MMO without the second M or the O. Last night we were taking quests and grinding mobs. It's a beautiful game and I really enjoy watching it, I'm not sure how much I'd like playing it though.

Before it came out I couldn't understand why they would change the combat system so much. In fact after playing the demo I really thought it was terrible. Now seeing Kara play the game it makes sense. It's not bad, It's just not for me anymore. It's for a different sort of gamer and that person will really like it.

zeroKFE wrote:
Farscry wrote:

I swear, Zero, you keep this up and you and Fedaykin will be like my astral plane alter egos, each one sitting on one of my shoulders.

Well that's eerie. Look at the time stamps:

http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/28076?from=120&comments_per_page=30#comment-520142

Ok, now that's just hilarious!

The game is certainly a bit patchy in terms of visuals, particularly when compared to FF10 of FF10-2. However, there are some very understandable explanations: scale and free camera. First of all, everything about this game is huge and feels huge, and which is something I haven't really been able to say since the SNES games, honestly. But that kind of scale requires tradeoffs.

I thought about that but they did do FFXI on the PS2 and that had a lot more stuff to display, with tons of possible characters on screen and hundreds of possible outfit combinations and yet the graphics were pretty comparable. The other thing is in FFXI it had less zone loading. Of course I haven't played FFXI on my PS2 in quite a while so maybe XII is a significant upgrade and i'm just remembering FFXI looking a bit better than it did. It's hard to say for sure because I played it mostly on PC but played on PS2 as well so I may be getting them mixed up a bit. I guess my point is that for all the oohing and aahing most sites are doing about the visuals I was a bit disappointed when I actually saw them. They are still very good but not as good as I was lead to believe.

I haven't decided yet if I'd rather play in 4:3 with the sharper effective image, or continue in widescreen with the horizontal pixels rendering wider. I've gone back and forth a couple times and can't make up my mind. I love the widescreen aspect ratio, especially in combat, but the picture is so much sharper in 4:3.

Hmm I haven't tried 4:3 maybe that is the crux of my problem. Do you just change the display in the game settings, or do you change it in the PS2 dashboard as well?

I guess my point is that for all the oohing and aahing most sites are doing about the visuals I was a bit disappointed when I actually saw them. They are still very good but not as good as I was lead to believe.

Same here. Honestly, I don't really think they bear much mention one way or the other, except to say that the art direction is a markedly interesting change from previous games.

Hmm I haven't tried 4:3 maybe that is the crux of my problem. Do you just change the display in the game settings, or do you change it in the PS2 dashboard as well?

You can change it in game, and on the fly. Personally I'd rather have widescreen but a bit blurry. If a game is willing to use the full screen real estate of my display, I'm going to let it.