World War Z

Brennil wrote:

I guess us folks up in Canada would wait til winter. Zombies have no body heat, so they freeze solid, and we merrily ski along the streets beheading them with hockey sticks.

Problem solved!

No, that works for "The Blob", not Zombie Apocalypses. Most you can hope for with Zombies is a nuclear strike.

Raptorman's diaries show that the exposure to nuclear radiation actually speeds the zombies up.

I assumed that in Canada, they fight zombies by 'pelting them with timbits'. A few years ago Certis claimed that this is how they deal rabid mooseys.

Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:

I assumed that in Canada, they fight zombies by 'pelting them with timbits'. A few years ago Certis claimed that this is how they deal rabid mooseys.

It's either that or pelt them with the 40 pounds of change you have to carry around because they have no dollar bills.

Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:

I assumed that in Canada, they fight zombies by 'pelting them with timbits'. A few years ago Certis claimed that this is how they deal rabid mooseys.

Poor Tim....

Y'all might want to read a bit of it before buying. I only got a few pages into the Advance Reader copy before deciding it wasn't for me. Just my 0.02, but the writing wasn't great and the concept doesn't work well as a novel. It'll probably make a great movie, though.

I bought me a copy at B&N yesterday. Got about 1/4 into it and enjoying it immensely thus far.

The only shortcoming I have to pick: the zombies, as depicted, are attacking their victims' random body parts and seem to only be concerned with stuffing their mouths full of fleshy meat. The book is failing thus far to explain, or to altogether describe, the zombies propensity specifically towards the living tissue of the fresh, warm, delicious human brains.

Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:

I bought me a copy at B&N yesterday. Got about 1/4 into it and enjoying it immensely thus far.

The only shortcoming I have to pick: the zombies, as depicted, are attacking their victims' random body parts and seem to only be concerned with stuffing their mouths full of fleshy meat. The book is failing thus far to explain, or to altogether describe, the zombies propensity specifically towards the living tissue of the fresh, warm, delicious human brains.

Maybe they're saving the brain for the main - the rest is just finger food.

OK, it's been two weeks....any further reviews/comments? I just found out the book is by the SON of Mel Brooks......

cewargamer wrote:

OK, it's been two weeks....any further reviews/comments? I just found out the book is by the SON of Mel Brooks......

That's pretty much what sold me on it. I'm all in on both books.

While I'm a touch baffled by the debate on Zombies and all, I do agree with Paleo in that the bigger threat would be the breakdown in civil order and support needs.

CEJ wrote:
cewargamer wrote:

OK, it's been two weeks....any further reviews/comments? I just found out the book is by the SON of Mel Brooks......

That's pretty much what sold me on it. I'm all in on both books.

While I'm a touch baffled by the debate on Zombies and all, I do agree with Paleo in that the bigger threat would be the breakdown in civil order and support needs.

I'm about 1/2 way through the book but that seems to be the general feel of the book. It touches on the military aspect here and there, but mainly it's the "Great Panic" that did the most damage in the story. There's a lot about how different countries handled the crisis.. some closing their borders early in the war, some ignoring what was happening entirely because the idea of 'zombies' is crazy, and even some saving who they could and leaving some citizens as "bait" so that others can get away. The book follows the argument of some of us on here about how ineffective the military would be with an enemy that doesn't feel pain, doesn't get scared, has no morale, and doesn't stop unless the brain is damaged. The way the story is told is definitely not for everyone. There's no "main" character (unless you count the guy doing the interviews) and every single interview is someone different. Each interview runs about 5-10 pages so they're almost like little mini short stories, but they're all telling different sides of the same over-all story.

I'm finding the idea of this already being optioned for a movie intriguing, but now reading the actual stories I'm wondering how they will pull it off. I really do see this working more as an HBO or Showtime series where every episode is one of the stories being told from all over the world. With the number of stories they could make atleast 3 seasons out of it. With a movie.. I dunno. They will probably make it more like an Independence Day type of thing where they do follow some key characters through out the war. But if they keep to the book and make it a huge cast, even if they are unknowns, and show all aspects of the war from all around the world.. it might be pretty cool. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

I finished reading it a week or two ago. A solid 4-star title, in Amazon classification. The end is kind of too cheerful. There isn't quite a total societal breakdown, you see. Some of the story's movements are a deliberately calculated grotesque, which feels quite implausible. USA saves itself by adopting Bolshevik-style Military Communism. Cuba saves itself by adopting white-bread kind of capitalism. Who would have thought.

The Terry Goodkin thread got me thinking about the last good book I read and this was it. A friend bought it for me for christmas and i'm not really that into zombies so I waited probably two months before reading it. But the book is fantastic. Even if your not really into zombies the post apocalyptic themes are great. Also it's kind of funny reading this thread because many of the ideas you guys are debating are addressed in the book including a very detailed military vs. zombie scene that is pretty well thought out. All in all the best book i've read in quite a while.

*********SPOILER ALERT*******

[color=#ffffff]My favorite scene from the book and probably the best zombie scene i've ever read/seen is the part with the heart surgeon who transplants a zombie heart into a patient only to have him come back to life and eat his face off. Brilliant![/color]

I read it recently as well and enjoyed it.

Read it last fall and enjoyed it very much; some of the subtleties of the living civilization post-war were thrown out there and too easily missed in the excitement (guy from SA townships being a clipper-ship captain; the switch to non-petroleum energy sources, etc.).

I confess that, any time I'm out on a drive now I look at the indefensible suburban developments and shudder.....

It's lying on the floor next to my bed. I plan to read it soon.

Ants fighting a larger animal. The larger animal will win initially but the ants will win in the end if the larger animal doesn't move away. In this humans can't move away. There is no location to move away to. The threat gets larger and larger and the casualties only add to the number. As if they are automatic reinforcements. The wave pushes and pushes and over time they will break down the wall. The only way to kill them is direct incineration. Nuclear attack only takes out everything within the blast area. Radiation does nothing and only hinders those who aren't already dead. Fuel air bombs probably more effective. Chemical and Biological attacks do nothing. Napalm and Flamethrowers the best convention weapons to use. Eventually with the world economy going to sh*t in a hand basket the military may run out of munitions and fuel and maybe even geography. The only solution might be to leave planet. It's a interesting concept and not really one that has been touched upon except in 28 Days Later in part.

I still say that it wouldn't take very long or very much for a modern military to deal with this kind of threat. A single AC130 would put a very quick end to a zombie army. A flight of B-52's with daisycutters could pretty much end half the zombie population.

Unless the zombies retain some innate human cunning (eg: know how to head for cover, avoid observation, attack only in coordinated fashion when numbers ensure victory) I see the problem being solved relatively quickly.

The problem would be solved quickly in our reality where we know about zombies already. In zombie fiction, the world always has to learn and seems to be slow on the uptake. Destroy the brain! Duh.

Paleocon wrote:

I still say that it wouldn't take very long or very much for a modern military to deal with this kind of threat. A single AC130 would put a very quick end to a zombie army. A flight of B-52's with daisycutters could pretty much end half the zombie population.

Unless the zombies retain some innate human cunning (eg: know how to head for cover, avoid observation, attack only in coordinated fashion when numbers ensure victory) I see the problem being solved relatively quickly.

Yeah, but if the military doesn't act like a bunch of arrogant retards there wouldn't be much of a story to tell.

If they do turn this into a film, they really need to make it a high-budget documentary, not a feature film. That's the only way to do it right.

Speaking of zombie fiction: check out the Walking Dead graphic novel series. Great stuff.

I assume that it will play out much like it did in Shaun of the Dead. After a brief period of chaos, order will be restored and the undead will be put to work doing menial labour.

Trashie wrote:

Speaking of zombie fiction: check out the Walking Dead graphic novel series. Great stuff.

I actually have been picking up that comic since after the first graphic novel; I was too impatient to wait for further trade paperback releases. Great stuff!

Paleocon wrote:

I still say that it wouldn't take very long or very much for a modern military to deal with this kind of threat. A single AC130 would put a very quick end to a zombie army. A flight of B-52's with daisycutters could pretty much end half the zombie population.

Unless the zombies retain some innate human cunning (eg: know how to head for cover, avoid observation, attack only in coordinated fashion when numbers ensure victory) I see the problem being solved relatively quickly.

McChuck wrote:

The problem would be solved quickly in our reality where we know about zombies already. In zombie fiction, the world always has to learn and seems to be slow on the uptake. Destroy the brain! Duh.

I think you're both wrong. In the Z-verse, they did not have George Romero movies? Even WWZ references the Zombie Handbook.

Our human scaffolding would break down, especially if there were no Black Ops Units expecting this very threat. Our real society could not even protect us against a flu pandemic, never mind the dead walking the earth.

But at least, look at the bright side, if a zombie apocalypse ever did come- unless you're extremely unlucky, you have possess more knowledge than 98% of Earth's population does about the subject. )

Chief Wiggum wrote:

Even WWZ references the Zombie Handbook.

That's because its the same author. He's advertising his other book! (err, unless you aren't referring to the Survival Guide)

Zombie double post.

Chief Wiggum wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

I still say that it wouldn't take very long or very much for a modern military to deal with this kind of threat. A single AC130 would put a very quick end to a zombie army. A flight of B-52's with daisycutters could pretty much end half the zombie population.

Unless the zombies retain some innate human cunning (eg: know how to head for cover, avoid observation, attack only in coordinated fashion when numbers ensure victory) I see the problem being solved relatively quickly.

McChuck wrote:

The problem would be solved quickly in our reality where we know about zombies already. In zombie fiction, the world always has to learn and seems to be slow on the uptake. Destroy the brain! Duh.

I think you're both wrong. In the Z-verse, they did not have George Romero movies? Even WWZ references the Zombie Handbook.

Our human scaffolding would break down, especially if there were no Black Ops Units expecting this very threat. Our real society could not even protect us against a flu pandemic, never mind the dead walking the earth.

But at least, look at the bright side, if a zombie apocalypse ever did come- unless you're extremely unlucky, you have possess more knowledge than 98% of Earth's population does about the subject. )

In many ways a zombie outbreak would be many times easier to deal with from a public health perspective than an outbreak of pandemic influenza.

1) victims are immediately symptomatic.
2) disease vector is obvious and observable.
3) unaffected population will automatically self-quarantine
4) disease vector requires direct person to person or extreme proximity contact

Influenza would be many times more difficult to handle.

For those of you interested in checking out World War Z, I stumbled onto something pretty cool. I was listening to the latest This Week In Tech podcast and they were plugging a website called Audible.com. If you go to www.audible.com/twit you can get a free audio book to try out which is what I did... So I signed up for it and chose World War Z for my free audio book and it is absolutely FANTASTIC to listen to. The cast is the thing that shocked me most... Here's the official blurb on it.

An all-star cast including Alan Alda, Mark Hamill, Jürgen Prochnow, Henry Rollins, John Turturro, Rob and Carl Reiner, and many others deliver their parts with such fervor and intensity that listeners cannot help but empathize with these characters. Max Brooks acts as the interviewer, providing an inquisitive but stagnant demeanor.

All in all, its definately a real treat to listen to.... almost like an NPR Radio "All Things Considered" piece from the future. Plus you get to hear Luke Skywalker cuss a bit.

Paleocon wrote:

In many ways a zombie outbreak would be many times easier to deal with from a public health perspective than an outbreak of pandemic influenza.

1) victims are immediately symptomatic.
2) disease vector is obvious and observable.
3) unaffected population will automatically self-quarantine
4) disease vector requires direct person to person or extreme proximity contact

Influenza would be many times more difficult to handle.

Paleo, not sure if you read the book but the infected were not immediately symptomatic (1). It's handled more as a virus infection than anything supernatural. It's been a long while since I read it but I believe infection -> zombie was like 24-48 hours (2). That's what caused most of the spreading were people who were infected getting on flights and heading to various international locations. (Look at the recent headlines with some guy with untreatable TB taking not 1 but 2 international flights) The biggest issue were large cities getting infected. How can there be a self-quarantine when you have cities like New York and Chicago (name any large city) being infected(3)? Again, been a while since I read this but I seem to the remember the virus being airborne at some point (4), but I readily admit that may be incorrect. But anyway, how is a AC130 or a B52 supposed to handle city-wide infections with any surgical precision to weed out the infected versus the non? The book touches on the military's "not so successful" attempts at cleaning cities building by building to minimize human causualties. The main issue being every person and/or soldier lost in the battle turned to the enemies side. So as our side took casualties, the enemy was just reinforcing.

I don't doubt that if this were to actually happen we would eventually win the war. I just don't think it would be as cut and dry as you make it out to be, unless it's caught and contained at the very earliest of stages. But really, assuming anything remotely like this happened in real life, would anyone believe it at the beginning stages. Or of course, our government (or in the books case I think is was China) covering it up which would delay any action being taken.

But then again, we're sitting here talking about a zombie outbreak. Ya, like that's going to happen. IMAGE(http://forum.mambo-foundation.org/images/smilies/peep.gif)