Dwarf Fortress you sick temptress, you!

I just want the game to work. Is that really so much to ask? I invest a bunch of time in a fortress, and bugs inevitably screw it up somehow. And he never bothers really fixing it, he just keeps piling on new systems that also don't ever quite work right.

I've given him a bunch of money, I have the right to bitch.

Malor wrote:

I just want the game to work. Is that really so much to ask? I invest a bunch of time in a fortress, and bugs inevitably screw it up somehow. And he never bothers really fixing it, he just keeps piling on new systems that also don't ever quite work right.

I've given him a bunch of money, I have the right to bitch.

Yeah, after reading his interview I'm pretty sure he will never get to bugs.

mrwynd wrote:
Malor wrote:

I just want the game to work. Is that really so much to ask? I invest a bunch of time in a fortress, and bugs inevitably screw it up somehow. And he never bothers really fixing it, he just keeps piling on new systems that also don't ever quite work right.

I've given him a bunch of money, I have the right to bitch.

Yeah, after reading his interview I'm pretty sure he will never get to bugs.

This is how God got started, isn't it?

Waiting for a new release is starting to wear on me a bit too. But this game has the best patch notes.

Toady One: Raising little bits and pieces and adventure-moding them in the arena continued to expose various problems. At the worst of it, knocking out an animated head's teeth caused two copies of the head to fly out and land on the ground, which would then be raised (complete with teeth), continuing the process until the arena was a churning mass of heads.
Malor wrote:

I just want the game to work. Is that really so much to ask? I invest a bunch of time in a fortress, and bugs inevitably screw it up somehow. And he never bothers really fixing it, he just keeps piling on new systems that also don't ever quite work right.

I've given him a bunch of money, I have the right to bitch.

Agreed. The fun part of development is the exploratory phase; it's very satisfying to write a feature from scratch and see it work for the first time. The not so fun part is then making it rock solid and handling every imaginable scenario. He's giving away his game for free so he can do what he likes, but he will get no more money from me until such time as he can demonstrate that he's a man and not a boy. Be responsible, do the laborious bug hunting and fixing. Or maybe seek a job at Bethesda where they share the "sorta works, good enough" outlook :).

I started up an awesome game of Hermit mode. Sealing one dwarf in to find his fortune and letting the rest die horribly. His name was Mad Urist and he was doing great while waves of immigrants arrivd and died outside, until ghosts started rising and haunting the fort then they picked on mad Urist. One even ripped his arm off! Poor Urist eventually died and i was most sad.

I've said it before, but I actually HATE the supernatural elements Toady has and is continuing to introduce. All I want to do is turn of ghosts! And yes, I know you kind of can and I have done so, but there are some that still rise to haunt. Best I can do for those is spot the ghost message and use runesmith to 'kill' them.

Carving memorials isn't enough to get rid of them? Shame that he added the feature but didn't add a text file variable somewhere.

Yeah, the game is just getting stupid. Taking all that time and effort to simulate hard physical reality for dwarves, and then introducing powerful magic, is shooting the reason for the game to even exist right through the heart.

Today's awesome:

Dev Blog wrote:

I visited a tomb today as the adventurer Cadem Renownletter to see how well the game retains the position of skeletons and treasures as I move them around. During the process, a mummy boxed me in the ribs, broke my finger, bit my hand and shook it around until the hand came off. The mummy then animated the hand and they both attacked me. The hand scored the killing scratch, earning the name "Drippedsieged, Cadem Renownletter's left hand" and earning the tomb an additional defender against further testing. Its middle finger is still broken.

Supernatural things are fine. Once they work, anyway. Having to lay ghosts is just as reasonable a constraint on managing your fortress as having to have bandages and water and booze and food.

I'd just rather have a UI that makes it easier to deal with all of this stuff, rather than one that's just sort of plopped on as an afterthought.

I'm done giving him money. As far as I'm concerned, the game is going backward, not forward.

Hypatian wrote:

Supernatural things are fine. Once they work, anyway. Having to lay ghosts is just as reasonable a constraint on managing your fortress as having to have bandages and water and booze and food.

IF and it is a BIG If. If the elements work well and are bug free, okay. My big issue is that you CAN'T lay ghosts to rest for a number of reasons then a perfectly good fortress goes into a tantrum spiral and death because you couldn't lay that ghost of a merchant to rest. If the tantrum spiral was because I was lax and didn't set up the conditions to lay people to rest that'd be fine, but it's not part of the system that kills me, it's an unaddressed bug.

Toady is just going to keep making the game he wants to make. I think to him it was a happy coincidence that a bunch of people liked what he was making at one point and started giving him money. There probably still are people doing that. But none of it changes the fact that he'll just keep plugging away, doing what he wants to do. I don't think the audience has ever mattered much to Toady.

Edit: nm.

Prozac: Yeah. That's a bigger deal. If there's just no way to deal with it or prepare for it, that's a serious problem. I had thought the problem was more one of not being prepared ahead of time.

I haven't played this in quite a while but I could see ghosts being annoying. I mean, dwarves dying in hilarious ways is a good thing (it's funny) and sometimes recovering the body can be quite hard to say the least. Sucks if the game penalizes for you not burying every body.

You can memorialize them instead, which doesn't require retrieving the body. Still one more spinning plate to keep track of, and one that tends to hit you either completely unexpectedly or while things are already catastrophic.

The problem with that is that there is a known bug where merchants and their guards come back as ghosts but can't be memorialized this equals ghosts you are never able to get rid of unless you watch closely enough to spot them when they rise and use a third party program like runesmith to remove them from the game before they cause any harm. I lost a lot of good fortresses to them before I figured that out, and occassionally one can still slip through my net and doom and entire fortress.

And why did we not hear of these fortresses sir?

Why can't I equip my dwarves with silver swords and have them kill the ghosts?! Madness!

Norfair wrote:

And why did we not hear of these fortresses sir?

AAR's are long and time consuming? I've been fiddling around with different challenge modes, I had a good hermit game going, of course since he was sealed off the others would die, be unable to be buried or memorialised and then come back as ghosts and harrass the hermit. That was kinda okay until a ghost rippe dthe Hermit's arm off. He lived a few more years then another ghost killed him

Prozac wrote:

AAR's are long and time consuming?

Since you got married, you never have time for us any more!

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So I decided to start a little bit of a Goodjer Fort. It hasn't started well as after a vicious Yak Attack Hypatian lies dead, Gored through the skull and Norfair has a broken foot!

Apparently the broken foot and the death of Hypatian was too much for him so he decided to lie mewling in the dirt outside the rudimentary initial fort throwing tantrums until he went berserk!

He was no real threat to anyone lying out on the ground and unable to move though and eventually succumbed to the elements as dwarfs rushed by ignoring his vile and mad taunts.

Man, typical Norfair.

I'm dead? Does that mean I get to haunt Norfair and send him into a delusional whirlpool of death?

I buried both your remains. Hypatian you did come back as a ghost for a little while but you mostly just hovered around the still.

Quintin, Of course you play a miner role in the fort.

Of course!

Prozac wrote:

Hypatian you did come back as a ghost for a little while but you mostly just hovered around the still. :)

That's the problem with dwarves. Driving them to drink just isn't effective.

Driving them to drink just isn't effective.

Yeah, even if you don't, they'll just walk there.

Plus, of course, Toady hasn't modeled internal combustion engines yet. Yet.

Found an interesting embark site.

on the finder it looked to be a volcano in hte middle of a freshwater lake. I thought I'd start embark there, start on the ednge of the lake, dig down under the water and back up to the volcano and use it as me evil volcano lair. Unfortunately upon embark this is what I found.

IMAGE(http://205.196.120.46/ca9725ecc66580b04b35e55e0b088a33da8761abbb9cdd51edc40231ecf859285g.jpg)

The named "Volcano" is just a magma pipe that is below water level, so as soon as I start the process of flooding the underworld begins. Once the pipe is capped with Obsidian I may try to do something about building it up to a usable space. The magma pipe goes all the way down to slade so in theory I 'could' try and flood hell with lava...

Prozac wrote:

...and back up to the volcano and use it as me evil volcano lair. Unfortunately upon embark this is what I found.

Just can't trust subcontractors these days.

Prozac wrote:

The magma pipe goes all the way down to slade so in theory I 'could' try and flood hell with lava...

Spoilers about flooding hell with lava!

Spoiler:

I've tried that when I was trying to "conquer" hell =I Damn hellbeasts are immune to lava! Nothing made me unhappier when the things just swam up through my multiple lava dumps and wreaked havoc...