"A Day Without Immigrants"

Duttybrew wrote:

The topic of our political principles is an interesting one. There is this magical mythology that we teach our children about the creation of this country and our founding fathers. These figures are seen as enlightened and benevolent gurus who constructed the first democracy and most perfect form of government.

If this country has a state religion, it is definitely the personality cult surrounding the Founders.

Well put, Dutty.

/tangent

Tangent

In my opinion, the only things worthy of love are those things that have been infused with the gift of life.

Ah, so I take it you are Pro-Life....

/tangent

JohnnyMoJo wrote:

Ducki is right on everything but minimum wage.

People are paid a wage based on the value of their productivity. If the price of a person's labor isn't worth the productivity of that labor, the person won't get hired. That is why places with higher madated employee costs, such as Michigan or France, have higher unemployment.

The people minimum wage hurts the most are the people who most need entry level jobs. As people get more experience and their productivity improves, their wages increas either through the process of raises or changing jobs.

Ah, but see...I'm much more of a leftist than you are. I disagree with your premise about unemployment and the minimum wage rates.

The minimum wage fell about 29% in real terms between 1979 and 2003. Yet real wages have risen in the free market anyway, with real hourly earnings up by 7% since 1997 (the last time the minimum wage was increased). Some argue (PDF) that a declining minimum wage might reduce youth unemployment (since these workers are likely to have fewer skills than older workers).

From what I understand, the theoretical argument that minimum wages have negative effects on employment is only true in perfectly competitive market, where the only role of wages is as a cost.

But, Alan Manning argues, in Monopsony in Motion: Imperfect Competition in Labor Markets, that if monopsony exists, such as that of the low-skill labor pool, then an increase in the minimum wage can raise employment.

In any case, I'm sure we're not likely to dissuade one another of the rightness of our opinions. And if we want to try...we can start an economics "You're Wrong! - No! You're Wrong!" thread.

I'm with JMJ on the minimum wage thing. If I want a wood floor installed, I'm shopping the price around. If it's out of my range, I'll put it off a year. The fact that I've spent anything at all has more to do with the deflationary effect on labor making the services affordable in the first place. This stimulates the economy by having me spend something I wouldn't have in the first place.

It's really just simple micro.

Duttybrew wrote:

The freedoms that we enjoy today were not bestowed upon us by the Forefathers, but rather were gained through blood and sweat and tireless efforts of union workers, grassroots movements, and other courageous folks desperately trying to get the boot off of their neck. Countless injustices have been done in the name of promoting our political principles and Paleocon's example above is just one case.

Of course those same groups were trying to put their boot on the necks of others at the same time. So all of those injustices came at the hands of the groups you're praising.

As for the founding fathers, without their work the groups you mentioned wouldn't have had the chance to exist. Instead we'd still be swearing loyalty to people who are deemed to be royal simply by birth. No thanks.

Duttybrew wrote:

So no, I don't believe those things you mentioned are objects worthy of love. In my opinion, the only things worthy of love are those things that have been infused with the gift of life.

So freedom isn't worthy of love? You don't love your freedom?

In any case, I'm sure we're not likely to dissuade one another of the rightness of our opinions.

Oh, I said my piece...I don't need to get into a long debate with you about it. I am just overjoyed that we agree on as much as we do.

But we can have the econ discussion any time you like.

But we can have the econ discussion any time you like.

Please do. I love to read the back and forth posts 'tween you Smart People.