BSG Season 2 Finale (Spoilers)

Gaald wrote:
So, it seems when Al saw his other self some sort of programming kicked in (and it wasn't to come up with a lie that he's a twin!) and said, "Oh yeah, I guess I am."

I am pretty sure Cavil (the one from Galactica) always knew he was a Cylon. Galactica Sharon had a hard time dealing with the fact that she was a Cylon when her programing kicked in, so we could only assume that would be the same for any other Cylons put in her position. Which is why a lot of the other Cylons on Caprica thought she was a hero, they knew it wasn't going to be easy on her. When Cavil walked in denying the accusations he had no idea another copy of himself was on board and was just doing the same thing we have seen other Cylons do when they are caught. Lie, confuse, and speak half truths until they can make thier escape or at the very least leave the humans more confused than they were before. When Cavil walked into the brig and saw another copy of himself there he knew the jig was up and stopped pretending he wasn't one of them. Which brought us that great moment. In fact I think I am going to watch the episode again right now.

The first Cavil definetly knew he was a Cylon. He told the chief authoritatively that he (the chief) was not a Cylon.

And when the two Cavils were in the brig, they were finishing each other's answers and explaining Cylon philosophy together.

lethial wrote:

Oh Draco: Did you see the bit where Balter asked how did the cylons find them? If not, then here is the explaination given by the male cylon. It was actually by accident, since they detected the radioactive signature of a nuclear detonation while patrolling a light year away.

Did you guys notice that Tom Zarek wasn't with Balter? I wonder if he died during the nuke blast of cloud 9.

Not an accident, the Cylon set off the nuke when they stopped so that the other Cylons could detect where they are hidden by following the nuclear detonation signature to the source. Hence my theory that the nuke was supposed to be used when they reached Earth, they knew it was for detecting the hidden humans, which is why they got it to the cylon in the first place.

You assume it was the Cylon's plan, Pyro. What if it was Baltar's idea? He seemed to surrender OYL rather quickly, especially considering the fact that the Cylon's never asked for it.

Nimcosi wrote:

90 Minutes of goodness... Mmmm.
At least they give us Doctor Who in the meantime.

Nim, you saved me from reading the rest of the thread and possibly spoiling the most enjoyable (last) 30 minutes of a TV show I've seen in years. My DVR only recorded the first 60 minutes and ended right around the time that Baltar was informed that the election was his. The recording cut off right after he had rebuked Adama and went to commercials. While I thought the ending was a tad weak, it was a plausible stopping point for the season. I've since caught the entire thing and just wanted to say 'thanks'.

Chum

What kind of sh*tty DVRs do you people have if it doesn't record the last thirty minutes?

souldaddy wrote:

I'm with Lobo on this one: HOLY SWEET MOTHER OF GOD. I mean, holy f*ck in the ear. sweet jebus in my pants, dear god o lord o god of the TV, that f*cking rocked and rocked hard.

I know, dude! It was crazy.

Now that I've had more time to think it over, I am fully prepared to say: Sweet jumping f*ckbeans. Holy f*cking sh*t on a shingle. Son of a torrential clusterf*ck. By the melted remnants of my brain, I swear; with liquor in my cup, I drink; and in the darkened corner of my room, I weep. So say we all.

So say we all!

Oh i was just trying to paraphrase as closely as possible of what the male cylon said. Edit: which is interesting, considering that cylons seem to be such firm believer of destiny.

I'm thinking she set of the nuke to commit suicide, not raise awareness of their whereabouts to the cylons.

(Now lets count the spelling mistakes in that last sentance...)

LiveWire wrote:

I'm thinking she set of the nuke to commit suicide, not raise awareness of their whereabouts to the cylons.

If true, no wonder Baltar went into a slide. If the first thing a woman does after you sleep with her is set off a nuke in her apartment, you know you've got to be pretty damn bad in bed. Baltar's confidence must be shattered.

Eezy_bordone wrote:

Keep in mind there are most likely other sleeper agents still with the colonists during this time and for the record we now know 7 models (more than half unless they're breeding now)
Xena - Number 3
Politician Guy - Number 5
Gina - Number 6
Sharon - Number 8
Leoben (the ammo depot) - Unknown #
Simon (the farm doctor) - Unknown #
Cavil (Priest) - Unknown # (Could he be #1?)

You've forgotten a couple: the "walking toasters" and the Raiders.

EDIT: Forget I said anything. I just realized that the "12" refers only to humanoid Cylons. Move along.

Funkenpants wrote:
LiveWire wrote:

I'm thinking she set of the nuke to commit suicide, not raise awareness of their whereabouts to the cylons.

If true, no wonder Baltar went into a slide. If the first thing a woman does after you sleep with her is set off a nuke in her apartment, you know you've got to be pretty damn bad in bed. Baltar's confidence must be shattered.

Okay but why a nuke? You don't use a nuke unless you want to kill someone else as well. Who was on Cloud 9 that she wanted dead? I don't recall them mentioning anyone else dying in the nuke. If she wanted suicide there's much easier ways than trying to get ahold of a nuke and then setting it off in your face.

Hmmm, following this discussion, I really think balter is somehow "connected" to the cylon "conscious". Using a nuke as a tracking beakon is a very smart thing to do, since radioactive materials have a long half life.
It could be that Balter unconsciously knew what the purpose of cloud9's Six's mission is, which is to provide cylons a way to track humans. So he gave her the nuke.

edit: then again, this all could be some convinent "accident" that is pre-destined to happen...

UHHH watching the interrogation eps again is really starting to screw with my head...

I don't recall them mentioning anyone else dying in the nuke.

Except that the population of New Caprica was just under 40K. So either a third of the fleet's population is still in orbit, or the nuke actually took some folks out. I'm not saying that it killed 20,000, but the blast did envelop 3 or 4 more ships other than the Cloud Nine.

PyromanFO wrote:

Okay but why a nuke? You don't use a nuke unless you want to kill someone else as well. Who was on Cloud 9 that she wanted dead? I don't recall them mentioning anyone else dying in the nuke.

I don't know how many people died. They didn't mention it? If not, I bet that during the during the election there was a shot of someone opening the ballot box for Cloud 9's votes and a big pile of ballots fell out. Someplace in America, someone has taken a screenshot of that and counted those ballots. So the information should be forthcoming soon....

Funkenpants wrote:
PyromanFO wrote:

Okay but why a nuke? You don't use a nuke unless you want to kill someone else as well. Who was on Cloud 9 that she wanted dead? I don't recall them mentioning anyone else dying in the nuke.

I don't know how many people died. They didn't mention it? If not, I bet that during the during the election there was a shot of someone opening the ballot box for Cloud 9's votes and a big pile of ballots fell out. Someplace in America, someone has taken a screenshot of that and counted those ballots. So the information should be forthcoming soon....

Don't worry, we'll figure it out boys, if its the last thing any of us do we will answer these questions or die trying!

Don't worry, we'll figure it out boys, if its the last thing any of us do we will answer these questions or die trying!

Spoken like a true Cylon!

But actually the ballot isn't a good measurement, since
1) it doesn't account for people under voting age.
2) There may very well be many people that were resident of cloud 9, but was elsewhere to watch, or participate in the inaguration.

According to the wiki, 29 people died going from part1 to part2 of the season finale.
And the number of ballot was a number RDM (Ronald D. Moore) came up on the fly as a rough estimation of the number of people that is old enough to vote.

Or if you watch the second last episode of the season you know there were 49,579 survivors in the fleet and then we are told New Caprica has a population of 39,192 survivors in the last episode. If you subtract one from the other you are left with 10,407 people dead between the 2nd last show and the ending of the last episode. If we assume that the New Caprica total includes those people who are still left up in orbit flying the fleet and take into account that after a year there were probably some new births and deaths, the number dead after the nuke would have to be somewhere close to the 10,407. Not exactly that number but close enough.

The Pegasus (or Cloud 9) Six most definitely commited suicide, I am sure she realized there were going to be several thousand human deaths and it was probably her revenge for the torture she was put through on Pegasus. If your going to go out, go out with a bang! If you watch the explosion sequence you will see that it wasn't only Cloud 9 that went up. There were at least 2 other ships that blew up with it. They were much smaller and were probably resupply ships or mining ships or something.

As far as Baltar is concerned and the downward spiral we see his character take. I would think it is from all the pressures he has had to face as President, compounded by the fact that it was his fault almost all of humanity was wiped from the universe, not to mention loosing another Six due to suicide and another 10,000 or so survivors because he was stupid enough to give the Six access to a nuke to kill herself with. I am assuming Baltar gave Six the nuke originally to show how much he trusted her. He knew that when he first met her on Pegasus she wanted to die but I assume that Baltar figured he had talked her out of that long before she actually killed herself. I also think the Six that was constantly talking to him in his head dissapeared during the year we missed because he looked shocked when she reappeared in the final minutes of the show. Than when the Cylons arrive they tell him that the only reason they found the humans again was because of the nuke. You could imagine that has to be enough to drive anyone over the edge and I am thinking we are going to see Baltar go really crazy next season.

But what was Baltar's motivation for giving Six the nuke in the first place? Obviously he's somewhat crazy and deluded, but what do you think Baltar thought Six was going to do with the nuke? He had to know that it would be used against the humans somehow. Is he just self-destructive, or just wacko?

We have seen less of the the Six in Baltar's head in season 2, I assumed that she was responsible for the gift nuke.

We must remember that running for President was her idea, and that she has convinced him that Cylon/Hybrid babies are Baltar's legacy and that Adama and Roselyn are his enemies to that end.

It always kind of seemed that Baltar thought one of his rewards to his faith to the Six in his head would be a future with a/the real Six. He saw Gina as that reward, but if I remember correctly Six in his head didn't like Gina. Perhaps she knew all along that Caprica Six would find Baltar.

If Six in his head is real, then everything that has happened could be according to her plan, including the Cylons finding them due to the nuke.

/shrug.

Oh and, I took the New Caprica pop. to be just be the people on the ground which would leave an unkown number with the fleet, and an unkown number dead.

Sorry, I should've been clearer. Did anybody who mattered die with her in the nuke? My point was the Cylons didn't care if she killed anybody or not with the nuke, that wasn't the point.

Also the horrified look on Baltar's face when the Cylon tells him that they detected the signature of a nuclear explosion and that's how they found them. Why would the writers mention that at all unless the point of the nuke was to lead the Cylons to the human refuge?

The look on Baltar's face was priceless. He's such a great part of the show. To your point about the Nuke. I don't even think Baltar knew 100% why he gave her the nuke, obviously they would use it as a weapon against humanity, but at what time and how? I think that's what makes his character so great is that he's very complicated and borderline insane.

It was great seeing his reaction as he realizes that he has singlehandedly delivered the 2 biggest blows to humanity's survival!

Just an aside. I think I may have the record for time between posts to the site.

To your point about the Nuke. I don't even think Baltar knew 100% why he gave her the nuke, obviously they would use it as a weapon against humanity, but at what time and how?

Of course, he had no idea. That's why Baltar is so awesome Just saying that's why the cylons did it.

The Pegasus (or Cloud 9) Six most definitely commited suicide, I am sure she realized there were going to be several thousand human deaths and it was probably her revenge for the torture she was put through on Pegasus. If your going to go out, go out with a bang! If you watch the explosion sequence you will see that it wasn't only Cloud 9 that went up. There were at least 2 other ships that blew up with it. They were much smaller and were probably resupply ships or mining ships or something.

Filthy Skimmer.

Of course, he had no idea. That's why Baltar is so awesome Just saying that's why the cylons did it.

I concur.

BTW, at the rate Baltar is going, he may repopulate everyone lost from the Nuke! The man sure does get a lot of New Caprica action.

Gaald wrote:

When Cavil walked into the brig and saw another copy of himself there he knew the jig was up and stopped pretending he wasn't one of them.

That's what I gathered, too. Even the resurrected Galactica Sharon back on Caprica still has trouble believing that she's a Cylon and feels remorse for what she's done to people who used to be her friends. Galactica Cavil just decided to stop embarassing himself. It was as if he missed the memo on how his mission changed and said, "Oh, Well." Fraking Comedy Gold.

And I do think that there's room for a schism in the Cylon ranks. We've already seen an evolution of philosophy. That was the whole point of Galactica Sharon and Caprica 6 (who, ironically, are the Cylons new front men) offing the #3 a couple of episodes ago. They hardly have to be unified. (More on that later)

Pulse wrote:
Of course, he had no idea. That's why Baltar is so awesome Just saying that's why the cylons did it.

I concur.

BTW, at the rate Baltar is going, he may repopulate everyone lost from the Nuke! The man sure does get a lot of New Caprica action.

About that fact that you pointed out. When the Six in balter's head said "judgement day" it almost seem thaht she is referring to the sinful actions that Balter has taken.
Didn't she say that to balter when caprica got destroyed?

buzzvang wrote:
The Pegasus (or Cloud 9) Six most definitely commited suicide, I am sure she realized there were going to be several thousand human deaths and it was probably her revenge for the torture she was put through on Pegasus. If your going to go out, go out with a bang! If you watch the explosion sequence you will see that it wasn't only Cloud 9 that went up. There were at least 2 other ships that blew up with it. They were much smaller and were probably resupply ships or mining ships or something.

Filthy Skimmer.

Who's skimming?

Did I not just make the same point above, that the Cloud 9 took some other ships with her when she went? I admit that I was mistaken about the total number of people in the fleet, but I had just said the same thing, in not so many words.

buzzvang wrote:

Did I not just make the same point above, that the Cloud 9 took some other ships with her when she went? I admit that I was mistaken about the total number of people in the fleet, but I had just said the same thing, in not so many words.

Sorry, I should've been clearer. Did anybody who mattered die with her in the nuke? My point was the Cylons didn't care if she killed anybody or not with the nuke, that wasn't the point.

Maybe I'm entirely missing what I said about that thing you're talking about, skimming my own posts