GWJFL Summer Week 10

legion when do you want to play the jets i'm free any night

Swampy, I'll see you 9 PM Tuesday.

ruthlessmuffin wrote:

legion when do you want to play the jets i'm free any night

Tuesday night, perhaps. Any non-NFL football night.

SwampYankee wrote:
Loganrapp wrote:

Because Legion was an ass and actually made me work extra hard to beat the Lions, I demand to be allowed to play as the Jets this week after I play my game with Bagga.

Speaking of which - Bagga - I can play anytime Monday - Thursday, after 7:30 pm PST. I'm available all day Fri-Sat-Sun, but I'd really prefer to have it during the week if we can at all manage that.

Get your primary game played and then we'll talk, monkeyboy.

How about we consider that even up for the Week 3 mishap? Fair trade?

LockAndLoad wrote:

Swampy, I'll see you 9 PM Tuesday.

Roger that!

Loganrapp wrote:

How about we consider that even up for the Week 3 mishap? Fair trade?

What mishap was that? Oh, I see. Hey Ruthless, would you consider letting Logan play his brother this week and I'll let you play the Jets next week?

Sorry Logan, that was not done on purpose, mate.

I know it wasn't, bro. I still plan on going undefeated. =)

EDIT: Well, against everyone but Legion.

ok I dropped from the jets. Send the invite for the colts back please

OK, Ruthless. You get them next week, OK?

Logan, you gotta drop and junk.

Mr. Firesloth, sir, what time would you like to play tonight?

Please make it before Monday Night Football if at all possible. I would appreciate it.

If not, the world will continue turning

Thin -- Can you play sometime between 5:30 and 6 pm central? I think 6 pm is a more likely time for me, which means we'll have to miss the beginning of the MNF marathon, I think.

So.. like now or in the next half an hour? Sure.

I'll hop online and wait.

*edit*
And my "break your game disc in half" worthy streak of losses continues.

I hate this game.

Thin_J wrote:

And my "break your game disc in half" worthy streak of losses continues.

I hate this game.

Thanks for the game, Thin. As you said -- close game. I think it came down to the one pass to TO I was actually able to stop.

firesloth wrote:
Thin_J wrote:

And my "break your game disc in half" worthy streak of losses continues.

I hate this game.

Thanks for the game, Thin. As you said -- close game. I think it came down to the one pass to TO I was actually able to stop.

Always close, but I never can pull off a win

And yeah, the one pass TO dropped I think was kind of a turning point. I had a hell of a time doing much of anything after that, though the biggest part of it was some really poor play choices in important situations on my part.

At least I'm making most of ya earn your wins. I don't feel totally worthless that way.

You are the foil team. By which we learn about ourselves playing against you.

You should feel honored.

DOUBLE

Did you really have to say that twice?

Redskins would not play for Bagga this week, which probably sucks more for Bagga than it does piss me off. But I know he's a good competitor, so this game was more than just it being my day.

I'll admit going for two at the end was a bit of a dick move. I was channelling Legion at the time, and I will remember not to do that in the future. At least, until I'm behind in the game.

It shouldn't have made me mad, but it did. I think you broke me. I had like 1 yard rushing and 1 yard passing. So at least it was in the positives. I just couldn't do ANYTHING. I bet it was fun for Logan to hear me go from "Jovial, Sarcastic, and Charmingly Witty" Baggachipz into "Goth, Gloomy, and Death-Greeting" Baggaohgoddammitiwanttof*ckingdie. Any time I bottled up his run and pass, he'd just make Vick sprout wings and flutter for a 20 yard gain. All I wanted to do was tackle Vick and hurt him, fer ceerist's sake. Which reminds me...

LEGION, I AM CALLING YOU OUT. You say it's possible to stop a running quarterback, TELL US HOW. "Play good defense" isn't an acceptable answer. Either you really know how or you don't. I'm drawing a line in the sand. Prove it, oh wise one. I had players set up in zones where Vick shouldn't have been able to run with NO DEFENDERS within a 20 yard radius. It was sickening. LEGION, I DARE YOU TO PROVE HOW TO STOP THAT.

And wow will it be nice to have Portis back. Ladell Betts, while a nice guy in real life, runs like he has one leg in 2k5. I couldn't get anything, and it looked to me like Logan was running a nickel package most of the game. You know, to rub salt in the wounds. Mmm, salt.

LEGION, I AM CALLING YOU OUT. You say it's possible to stop a running quarterback, TELL US HOW. "Play good defense" isn't an acceptable answer. Either you really know how or you don't. I'm drawing a line in the sand. Prove it, oh wise one. I had players set up in zones where Vick shouldn't have been able to run with NO DEFENDERS within a 20 yard radius. It was sickening. LEGION, I DARE YOU TO PROVE HOW TO STOP THAT.

"Develop god-like skills controlling every defender on the field or woe, Vick shall scramble on you constantly.... like the little bitch he is."

Not that I'm bitter.

baggachipz wrote:

LEGION, I AM CALLING YOU OUT. You say it's possible to stop a running quarterback, TELL US HOW. "Play good defense" isn't an acceptable answer. Either you really know how or you don't. I'm drawing a line in the sand. Prove it, oh wise one. I had players set up in zones where Vick shouldn't have been able to run with NO DEFENDERS within a 20 yard radius. It was sickening. LEGION, I DARE YOU TO PROVE HOW TO STOP THAT.

I will prove it. I play Atlanta next week.

I already have proven it - he got only 33 yards on 7 runs on me last week when I was using pathetic Detroit. I ran "Slowy Joey" Harrington for 115 in that game.

Certis wrote:

"Develop god-like skills controlling every defender on the field or woe, Vick shall scramble on you constantly.... like the little bitch he is."

Not that I'm bitter.

May I remind you, Certis, that the second half of my game against you - the crunch time - was played while I was QBing with Detmer.

May I remind you, Certis, that the second half of my game against you - the crunch time - was played while I was QBing with Detmer.

We're talking about stopping running QB's, not how you beat me after I hurt that punk, Vick

Let's see, Logan's latest game with Vick, FOUR rushes for 77 yards.

3:07 3-5 at WAS 27. Michael Vick (ATL) ran left side for 11 yards

4:04 3-9 at WAS 41. Michael Vick (ATL) ran left side for 20 yards

0:40 3-12 at WAS 33. Michael Vick (ATL) ran right side for 18 yards (Taylor)

2:52 3-9 at ATL 20. Michael Vick (ATL) ran right side for 28 yards (Taylor)

Just like how you suddenly started using defensive line crosses and slants on important 3rd downs on defense, you run on 3rd down because it has a very high probability it will work, at least partially in thanks to the game A.I not being equiped to deal with it.

I already have proven it - he got only 33 yards on 7 runs on me last week when I was using pathetic Detroit. I ran "Slowy Joey" Harrington for 115 in that game. :)

Knowing your brother's tricks (since you taught him) and being a stud at controlling defensive players does not really prove anything

And running Harrington for 115 yards doesn't help anyone's case towards running with a QB as fair crutch to use in this game.

Certis wrote:

Knowing your brother's tricks (since you taught him)

There's no "trick" to running it, and there's no "trick" to defending it, other than some sound defensive thinking.

and being a stud at controlling defensive players does not really prove anything ;)

That's not necessary either.

Here's a hint: Just like in actual football, if you're planning on stopping it with downfield defenders, you've already lost the war.

One word: containment.

And running Harrington for 115 yards doesn't help anyone's case towards running with a QB as fair crutch to use in this game.

Well you're missing the point there. The point was that Harrington and the Lions lost. And Logan wasn't bothering to play contain, because he was winning.

at least partially in thanks to the game A.I not being equiped to deal with it.

Actually, the AI usually does exactly what it's supposed to. The problem is the defenses you have a habit of calling are often very poor at run containment. You often "sell out" against the pass, especially on 3rd down, and then are surprised when they don't hold run contain. Just like actual NFL defenses, you have to make judgement calls that pull yourself out of your nice safe deep pass coverages and put you in a better position to stop the run, albeit at a calculated risk against the pass.

(Logan ran on 3rd down)

Running on 3rd down is the effect. The defenses called on 3rd down is the cause.

I called a total of about 2 man defenses in the game. Only on one of those four big runs did I play the pass. The other times were cover 3 zones, where in theory there should have been players in positions to make tackles on Vick before he could get out of the pocket. Then, when he did run, I saw players standing with thumbs in their asses. Not exactly how they "should" play. Of course, when I switch to a player to try to make the tackle, it chooses to give me the player that's already blocked. The open one continues to stand still. Another thing, in this game my front 4 *NEVER* put pressure on the QB. They're not rated poorly, either. The only schemes I use are razors, pinch, and base because I don't want to glitch. What do other teams use? I mean, on several pass plays, my QB hadn't even taken 3 steps back yet, and he was ground into the turf before I even had a *chance* to throw... and these weren't blitzes.

Legion, I still haven't gotten a good answer from you. I tried everything, 2 hard, 3 strong, etc and still no "containment." Name some plays that work for you. Don't worry, I can't spot a defense until it's already mid-play so I'm not going to somehow magically understand all your schemes and beat you. Tell us what you mean by "containment."

You just have to leave yourself totally vulnerable to the pass to contain the QB. Take the LB your controlling out of his zone, or off his man, and go after the QB.

Sound defensive playcalling. It's what I'm all aboot.

baggachipz wrote:

I called a total of about 2 man defenses in the game. Only on one of those four big runs did I play the pass. The other times were cover 3 zones, where in theory there should have been players in positions to make tackles on Vick before he could get out of the pocket. Then, when he did run, I saw players standing with thumbs in their asses. Not exactly how they "should" play. Of course, when I switch to a player to try to make the tackle, it chooses to give me the player that's already blocked. The open one continues to stand still. Another thing, in this game my front 4 *NEVER* put pressure on the QB. They're not rated poorly, either. The only schemes I use are razors, pinch, and base because I don't want to glitch. What do other teams use? I mean, on several pass plays, my QB hadn't even taken 3 steps back yet, and he was ground into the turf before I even had a *chance* to throw... and these weren't blitzes.

Legion, I still haven't gotten a good answer from you. I tried everything, 2 hard, 3 strong, etc and still no "containment." Name some plays that work for you. Don't worry, I can't spot a defense until it's already mid-play so I'm not going to somehow magically understand all your schemes and beat you. Tell us what you mean by "containment."

Bagga, in your case I'm going to say that this was just one game that the Redskins did not want to play. I've played against Washington in pick up games with All-Pro and a lot of the man-up situations would actually work on a number of occasions, because your DBs aren't as horrible as they played this game. I'll even admit to throwing some balls that I figure would get deflected or intercepted, but because of how your defense was playing I threw it up anyway to see what would happen. And sure enough, my guys would catch it. The defense got zero penetration, and I think after a while that gets demoralizing (I played the Texans last season, they were notorious for underperforming their rating).

The point isn't stopping Vick. It's keeping him to five-yard, six-yard runs. Because when you run with your QB, you're going for a lot of yards, and risking your team leader to do it. The point is not to stop him, but to keep from making those runs worth the risk. The US didn't really win the Revolutionary War, we just made it not worth the effort for the British to continue it right then.

Of course, you have to know, or recognize situations when that run's possibly coming.

A lot of my Vick runs will be in times when I honest-to-Zeus plan on throwing the ball, and you'll see my feet set to do that, but the coverage is too good that I just try and take what I can get. At that point it's a matter of switching to a defender not to kill Vick, but to cut off his angle. I see a lot of times people selecting players on, say, sweep plays or QB runs and running right at where the RB/QB is at right at that moment, when they should be running at where they think the ball carrier is going to be.

I think that's what happens with you, Certis - you want to kill Vick, and once Vick starts running, defensive strategy goes out the window because Vick must die. And you know it.

Certis has the right idea. Make them pay for their gains. Play to injure when they're running their QB.

You often "sell out" against the pass, especially on 3rd down, and then are surprised when they don't hold run contain. Just like actual NFL defenses, you have to make judgment calls that pull yourself out of your nice safe deep pass coverages and put you in a better position to stop the run, albeit at a calculated risk against the pass.

It only looks that way, having ONE defender on each passer and everyone else zoned in close does not count as "selling out" to cover the pass. If what you mean is I need to blitz with my safeties and hold my corners at the line of scrimmage... sure. That might work.

Straight up, I have a man standing five yards in front of the first down marker and the QB just passed the line of scrimmage. He should go for the QB, but he doesn't. Just like Bagga is saying, and just like you're completely ignoring, the defensive AI does not react to a scrambling QB unless he is standing right in front of him.

And you continue to ignore the simple fact that Logan ran four times with Vick, all on 3rd downs and all of them converted. Bagga is a solid player, after the second time I'm sure he would have made changes to prevent it, just like I did. The only time I ever stop a running QB is when I manage to pick the right player to control to nail him. Assuming when I switch players it selects the right guy and I manage to get him moving in the right direction immediately.

So tell us, oh great Legion, which plays should we be running to prevent a running QB while still having some decent coverage on the pass? What's the secret button to press that makes your defenders react when the QB crosses the line of scrimmage? It's not that we see scrambling QB's a lot, it's that we see it on very important 3rd downs that are must-convert situations to keep the game close. Right now, as far as I know, if I sell out on stopping the QB run, the guy is just going to pass it up the field. I lose either way.

I'm going to leave my "I just woke up and I'm still bitter that my bathroom is a renovation disaster area" post up but I just want to say I'm not harboring any REAL bitterness or ill will towards you guys for QB scrambling, I have stopped it when I can get a man in the right place but it's highly frustrating to watch the CPU do nothing to stop it when a player is standing there and able to make a the tackle. I would like to know what formation/play I'm supposed to use to prevent.. oh, let's say Joey Harrington... from running for 100+ yards in a game.

Thin - By the way, I just noticed something about our game: no turnovers by either team. That's an accomplishment for both of us!

I really do think that game came down to just a few plays that could have gone either way. TO felt like he was KILLING me, even though McAllister was shadowing him all day and had help via a double team about 75% of the time. He only had 3 grabs, but they went for >100 yards and a TD. Plus, you were running the ball really well (6.6 yds per carry is great...much better than my 2.9).

I sort of don't understand something, though: I had the ball 13 minutes, you had it 11. And yet I ran 49 plays and you only got off 25 (according to the online summary). That's a bit baffling to me. This is even accounting for the final two minutes (during which I ran 7 running plays).