GWJCFFL Rules discussion

Ok so I was looking at the way the points were added up and I have a few suggestions for changes.

1. Get rid of the Can't Cut List.

Can't Cut Lists only lead to bad injury situations where someone can't dump someone even if for that person he has become useless. I think giving managers an option to protest trades is good enough.

2. I am not really sure how waivers work so I just want to make sure someone who knows how they work looks over how waivers are setup so we don't get screwed with a bad waiver system.

3. I think we should add in Team Victory if it is possible.

We all have to choose a team to play every week and if they win we get 4 points. We would of course draft the teams for Team Victory as one of our positions, just like Team Defense.

4. Injured Reserve List is a good idea.

Not being able to play someone because they are injured is bad enough, having to dump someone you know will be back and useful as a starter because you need to have someone to fill in for them would be horrible. Injured reserve lists work great you get to pick up someone without having to dump anyone, but once your IR player is back you must decide to dump someone if your roster is too large.

Now for Points setup.

1. Passing Ints should only be -1

2. Recieving Ints should only be +1

-2 and +2 for ints doesn't sound like a lot but it can totally devestate someone especially if the team you are playing is running the defense against your QB. A 4 pt swing on 1 play is just too much power.

3. Passing TDs should be reduced to 4pts.

So that QB's are not too powerful.

4. If there is any way possible it would be great to add in a bonus for any over 50 yard TDs.

The league I am currently in now has it so that you get double the points for the TDs. It would apply to: passing TDs, Recieving, Running, and defensive or special team's TDs.

5. QB Passing yards should be changed to 1pt for every 100 yards.

Again so that QBs don't become too powerful, and so that we don't end up with recievers or running backs who pass once or twice during a game and ending up with pts for passing.

6. We should include pts for milestones such as 1 or 2pts extra for QB's who reach 300 yards passing. RBs, WRs, and QBs could get 1 pt extra for reaching 100 yards rushing and or recieving. Than another extra point for 200 yards rushing and or recieving etc.

7. Field goals I would only change slightly and give 50+ yards 6pts, maybe eliminate the 4 pts for 40-49 yards.

8. If we are going to have fumbles included (I am up in the air on this category) we should change it so that anyone who fumbles recieves -1 pt and defensive fumble recoveries get +1pts.

Again 2pts either way is too big.

9. blocked kicks category we should just loose altogether.

League Divionsal Setup.

I am in another 12 team league and the way these usually work best is by having a 3 division league. You play everyone within your own division twice, which makes interdivisional matchups really important, and you play everyone in the other divisions only once.

For playoffs the top 8 teams make it in (which allows for more teams to have a chance). The top 2 teams start with bonus pts for playoff week 1, this way everyone has to earn thier chance to stay in every week but top two still get a benefit for doing so well. The order would be 1-8, 2-7, 3-6, 4-5. The next week if the no.1 ranked player is still in he again gets bonus pts, but much smaller than the previous week and again he gets to play the lowest ranked team. Week three no bonus pts for anyone, it's superbowl baby!

Long post but I think it will help make for a much more interesting football league.

Man apparently Team Victory is not an option in that system nor is a costume league setup, so I guess the way the playoffs work now is best with the top 2 teams getting a bye.

1. Get rid of the Can't Cut List.

Can't Cut Lists only lead to bad injury situations where someone can't dump someone even if for that person he has become useless. I think giving managers an option to protest trades is good enough.


I agree, I doubt we'll see any losing teams make unbalanced trades near the end out of spite or to stack anyone else's team anyways.
3. I think we should add in Team Victory if it is possible.

We all have to choose a team to play every week and if they win we get 4 points. We would of course draft the teams for Team Victory as one of our positions, just like Team Defense.


Not available unfortunately.
1. Passing Ints should only be -1

2. Receiving Ints should only be +1

-2 and +2 for ints doesn't sound like a lot but it can totally devastate someone especially if the team you are playing is running the defense against your QB. A 4 pt swing on 1 play is just too much power.


I'm not convinced, the odds of this specific situation coming up aren't huge and really, if you're worried about it you should start a different QB. If we leave the QB at 1 point for every 25 yards then the hit for throwing a pick should be high too.
3. Passing TDs should be reduced to 4pts.

So that QB's are not too powerful.


A touchdown is a touchdown. I don't see why a RB should get 6 for a TD and a QB only gets 4. Doesn't make any sense to me.
5. QB Passing yards should be changed to 1pt for every 100 yards.

Again so that QBs don't become too powerful, and so that we don't end up with receivers or running backs who pass once or twice during a game and ending up with pts for passing.


Not a chance, I'm still thinking bumping it up to 50 yards = 1 point but no way will I go to 100. The QB is supposed to be a key player on your team, given that you only start one per game there is no point in neutering him too much
8. If we are going to have fumbles included (I am up in the air on this category) we should change it so that anyone who fumbles receives -1 pt and defensive fumble recoveries get +1pts.

Again 2pts either way is too big.

.
For fumbles I agree with 1 point instead of 2. All sorts of factors go into a fumble, sometimes it's not really anyone's fault.
9. blocked kicks category we should just loose altogether.

Considering it doesn't happen much I don't see why it's a big deal. A blocked kick is even more impressive than a sack to me.
League Divionsal Setup.

I am in another 12 team league and the way these usually work best is by having a 3 division league. You play everyone within your own division twice, which makes interdivisional matchups really important, and you play everyone in the other divisions only once.

For playoffs the top 8 teams make it in (which allows for more teams to have a chance). The top 2 teams start with bonus pts for playoff week 1, this way everyone has to earn thier chance to stay in every week but top two still get a benefit for doing so well. The order would be 1-8, 2-7, 3-6, 4-5. The next week if the no.1 ranked player is still in he again gets bonus pts, but much smaller than the previous week and again he gets to play the lowest ranked team. Week three no bonus pts for anyone, it's superbowl baby!


As you saw, we can't do it this way in the league.

We CAN setup a bonus system for RB's QB's and WR's (50+ yard TD pass = 1 point, etc.) and I'd be willing to kick up the QB passing to 50 yards = 1 point if we had a range bonus in place. What do you guys think?

Unless I state otherwise below, assume I agree with Certis.

If we leave the QB at 1 point for every 25 yards then the hit for throwing a pick should be high too.

But, conversely if we change it to 1 point per 50 yards (which, I actually prefer), then I think the interception should be changed +/- 1.

A touchdown is a touchdown. I don't see why a RB should get 6 for a TD and a QB only gets 4. Doesn't make any sense to me.

Well, to be fair a Passing TD involves 2 players (QB and receiver) where a rushing touchdown involves only 1. I tend to think a higher score for a rushing TD makes a kind of sense.

We CAN setup a bonus system for RB's QB's and WR's (50+ yard TD pass = 1 point, etc.) and I'd be willing to kick up the QB passing to 50 yards = 1 point if we had a range bonus in place. What do you guys think?

I've definitely liked the leagues I was in where we had a bonus system. There are days when your QB only throws for 1TD, but passes for 300+ yards. Their score should match their performance, and a RB with 2 four yard TDs should score the same as a RB with a 35 and 50 yard TD.

My thoughts:

Can't cut list: No

Team Victory: No

IR: No (unless we have a keeper league) You take your chances with injury prone players and bad luck.

Ints: +2/-2

Passing TDs: 4

Passing Yardage: 25 yards/pt

Yardard Bonuses of any kind (milestones, big plays, etc): No. (I feel most strongly about this rule)

Fumbles: Don't care.

Blocked Kicks: 2 points

I don't really care to much about the scoring system, except that I HATE "big play" bonuses and "milestones". As long as the points system is set in stone and NOT CHANGED AFTER THE DRAFT (like last year) I am cool.

I am interested in how the waiver system works. Last year a lot of people benefited from gameday pickups. Is that going to be the same this year?

I really want to make sure the Waiver system works right this year. Last year I got screwed by the waiver system too many times. I would pick someone up for that weekends games and he would never make it to my starting lineup because of the waiver system wait times. It was ridiculous.

I just want to make sure that one posistion doesn't become the overall factor in who wins and loses in every game because the stats we chose made that position way too powerful. I like seeing a very balanced scoring system so that you win or lose because your whole team did or didn't perform as well as someone elses whole team. I would hate to see it become who had the better QB every week.

I feel really strongly about having bonuses for Milestones. Having players do exceptionally well in a game deserves credit and 300 yards passing is huge. 100 yards recieving and rushing is also a big accomplishment and deserves some credit.

The reason I want to see higher yards per points is two fold.

1. small yards per pts means more non QB players getting pts for throwing 1 or 2 passes that may or may not mean anything in a game. This is happening more and more often in the NFL.

2. The QB is involved in just about every offensive play in the game, giving them lots and lots of opportunities to rack up points for you. If we start crediting them with 1pt for every 25 yards we will end up with mediocre QBs getting 8pts in yards a game where as your stud Running Back or Wide Recievers will only get you 4pts in yards per game if your lucky and get one of the best ones. Than you have to factor in TDs over top of that and all of a sudden your QB who might have lost his game horribly but still got you 200 yards and a TD gets like 12 pts vs someones running back who got a TD and 100 yards but only gets like 11pts. There is no question in my mind as to who had the better preformance but as is it doesn't show in the stats.

I don't think it was changed after the draft. There was some talk but it was quickly voted down IIRC.

The Certis, I am fine with the ones we discussed a few weeks ago.

I'd like, if possible, you getting the points if your WR/PR returns a punt for a TD even if you do not have the defense he is on.

I feel really strongly about having bonuses for Milestones. Having players do exceptionally well in a game deserves credit and 300 yards passing is huge. 100 yards recieving and rushing is also a big accomplishment and deserves some credit.

Why? An NFL team that has a hunderd yard rusher doesn't get a point added to their score. In my opinion, there is no reason to add any additional complexity to the scoring system. It just inflates scores.

I don't think it was changed after the draft. There was some talk but it was quickly voted down IIRC.

The defensive scoring scheme was changed after the draft. I remember, because I waited basically to the end of the draft to take a defense based on the fact they weren't going to be very valuable.

I'd like, if possible, you getting the points if your WR/PR returns a punt for a TD even if you do not have the defense he is on.

No way should we do this. Special teams is special teams. That would over complicate scores way to much. Thankfully I don't think it is possible.

Why? An NFL team that has a hunderd yard rusher doesn't get a point added to their score. In my opinion, there is no reason to add any additional complexity to the scoring system. It just inflates scores.

By that same logic no team gets 1 pt for every 20 yards rushing either. I guess we should eliminate those too.

That is why this is a fantasy league. We award players based on their performance and 100 yards rushing is a major accomplishment in any game. Same with 300 yards passing and 100 hundered yards recieving. Players with those kinds of stats in a game make a big difference in thier games so we should reflect that in our league.

Gaald - make sure Certis shows you the rules I sent him - just a reference, but they are trialed and tested in two leagues combined for 22 years of play to date. I can send via email or post if anyone wants to see them.

My thoughts:

Can't cut list: No

Team Victory: Not a fan

IR: If you can limit it, such as 1-2 IR slots, I'm for it...still makes you make the decision, but if you lose a superstar for 6 weeks, its a huge help.

Ints: 1 pt

Passing TDs: scaled if possible - 4 pt for 1-20 yards, 5 pts for 21-40 yards, 6 pts for 41 - +++ yards - and before anyone says anything, I favor this scale BE CONSISTENT - same for RB and WR and TE.

Passing Yardage: 25 yards/pt is way to many, 100/1pt is way to few - 1 per 50 is just right.

Yardard Bonuses of any kind (milestones, big plays, etc): nope...just scale it like above

Fumbles: Not a fan, but don't hate them.

Blocked Kicks: 2 points

Yardage - I always favor 1 pt / 20 COMBINED yards...balances out very well.

Also, need to scale it if you use %completion - if a player throws under 10 passes, he should only get yardage and TD if applicable.

As for milestones - USELESS imho - why - if a player has a monster game - runs for 163 yards, passes for 400+ - TRUST me, he'll have a monster day in the stats as long as they are scaled. Adding pluses simply makes it unrealistic

As for waiver - I'm for wide open waivers - if you can have a waiver system for 24-48 hours, great, THEN, wide open free agency, no limits on moves.

BTW...if someone plays tricks - such as seeing his opponent needs a QB, so he picks up the QBs, then drops them so that they are on waivers and locked through the game, I say toss his ass from the league...on the spot...

more to come

I like Pigpen's suggestions!

Yardage - I always favor 1 pt / 20 COMBINED yards...balances out very well.

Combined as in, running and receiving? That's default I do believe and suits me fine.

By that same logic no team gets 1 pt for every 20 yards rushing either. I guess we should eliminate those too.

There is no reason to be a smart@ss, I was just explaining my position. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Bring on the draft!

Sorry, had to run to a meeting...lol.

Gaald, definately see your point on the bonuses and such, and also on the team wins (I had it in a league for a while with head coaches, i.e you pick a head coach, he wins, you get points, etc.) Both are nice options, but for what they bring, imho, they aren't worth the time. You rarely get passionage about a coach, and its just not that much fun I think. The bonuses tend to unbalance things mightily. I played against manning on his MONSTER game last year, and he had as many points in that one game as 4-5 of my players - but he other 4 of mine came through handily, and I almost pulled off the upset. You toss in bonuses, and he would have singlehandedly beat my team - all of us like to win, and don't mind seeing the occasional super day, but bonuses skew it too much - at least in my opinion.

Certis - yes on combined. Here's the logic for all. You have a RB that runs for 58 yards, and receptions for 18 yards - at 20/category, he had a 2 pt day...but when you add it, he has 76 yards from scrimmage, which isn't bad, so he gets 3 instead. Again, a player has 4 carries for 18 yards, and one reception for 16 yards - well, individually, that player gets zero points, but he helped out, and cumulative, he has 34 yards, which isn't bad - so he gets a point. There is nothing worse than having a RB get 5 carries for 18 yards, and 2 receptions for 19 yards, and getting nothing - ZERO...ouch - when he actually helped out on 7 offensive plays.

Receptions aren't mentioned. What's the rule (can't hit it from work) - the system I favor (for WR and RB's and TE's) is 1-2 receptions - 0 / 3-4 receptions - 1 pt / 5-6 rec - 2 pts / 7-8 - 3 pts, etc...on up to infinity.

Again, this shows why I'm not for bonuses - lets take a monster day for say Terrell Owens - 10 catches, for 178 yards, one bootleg run for 6 yards, and two TD's, one for 4 yards, the other for 68 yards. - my proposal gives him 4 pts for receptions, 9 pts (1 pt / 20 yards - (178+6=184), and 4 pts for the short TD, 6 for the long one - total for Terrell = 23 pts - he doesn't need a bonus when the average for players is in the 6-8 range for a week

The combined yards and receptions also helps open up some RB considerations. A mauler who gets his 100 yards is always great, but now you can look at a 2nd or 3rd back who gets 40 yards on the ground, but averages 4 catches for another 25 yards or so, adding another 2 pts to his total.

Do we have a penalty for missed kicks - I'm in favor of one (scaled of course - no penalty if you miss a 50 yarder, but a nice penalty if you miss a 20 yarder)

Also, I'd like to have it set no player can go below zero - that an option?

Playoffs and season length -

Oh, and for playoffs - I'm in favor of 6 teams making the playoffs - the bottom 6 have their own playoffs (Super Bowl and Toilet Bowl) - winner of the Toilet bowl, in theory, has to buy beer the first round at the next draft...lol

Makes it more competitive.

Also, don't see discussion on the season length - again why I vote for 6 team playoffs. - with 12 teams, you have two 6 person divisions - season is 13 weeks long, playoffs are week 14-16 - I am VEHEMENTLY opposed to any games in week 17 other than a beer buying allstar conference game - why - because you fight all season long to win the super bowl, just to see your Manning or McNabb play one quarter and sit to avoid injury! So, wild card weekend is week 14 - the two conference winners get byes, and you have two wild card teams from each conference play each other - then, staying in conference, you have the wild card game winner goes to the conference winners stadium to play (we set the HF at 4.5 pt for this game - you earned it by winning a lot of regular season games, and your fans and team is stoked - AND...the .5 leads to NO ties.) The two winners then vie for the championship.

(note - this can be done with 4 division of 3 teams - the winner of each division gets into the playoffs, and then you have two at-large wildcards slots pulled at large from the best records. Best two records get byes, others play based on record - #division winner 3 hosts wild card #6, Div Winner #4 hosts wild card #5.

Tie breaker order needs to be set in advance - it WILL come into play in who gets in the playoffs.

I propose
1. Regular Season Record
2. Head to Head Record
3. Conference Record
4. Total Points Scored in Head to Head Games
5. Total Points Scores in all Games
6. Coin Toss (person who had the worst record last year will call the coin toss)

Home Field advantage - ? - I'm in favor of it in the season, and DEFINATELY in the playoffs - look at the real playoffs and the HF advantage it gives (super bowls are always neutral sites) - up to you Certis - I suggest 3 pts reg season (in 13 week season, you have 6 home, 6 away, and week 7 is neutral site - pretend you are playing a game in Canada or something )

1. Get rid of the Can't Cut List.

Can't Cut Lists only lead to bad injury situations where someone can't dump someone even if for that person he has become useless. I think giving managers an option to protest trades is good enough.

I agree, I doubt we'll see any losing teams make unbalanced trades near the end out of spite or to stack anyone else's team anyways.

After some of the trades Certis made last year seeing him back this proposal is enough to put me firmly against it.

4. Injured Reserve List is a good idea.

Not being able to play someone because they are injured is bad enough, having to dump someone you know will be back and useful as a starter because you need to have someone to fill in for them would be horrible. Injured reserve lists work great you get to pick up someone without having to dump anyone, but once your IR player is back you must decide to dump someone if your roster is too large.

I don't like it. I like the fact that you have to choose whether to take up a valuable roster spot with a good player who is injured for a while.

For QB's I would slightly favor the 4pts/td as with the new rules passing td's are much too easy to get. Other than that I would leave the QB points alone bonuses for longer touchdowns don't make sense as that bonus is already counted in the extra yards they get from the big play. Also I think they should be a fairly powerful player just as they are in the NFL. I also say leave the picks at +2/-2 as a QB should be a big risk vs. big reward type of proposition.

For the milestones I originally liked the idea but after thinking about it some I think we should not include them as again they are already accounted for in the points per yard and touchdown.

Certis wrote:
A touchdown is a touchdown. I don't see why a RB should get 6 for a TD and a QB only gets 4. Doesn't make any sense to me.

Because 15 TDs is an amazing year for a RB and a sh*tty year for a QB.

Good quarterbacks throw 20+ TDs. Good running backs run for 8+ TDs.

Making passing touchdowns worth 6 makes quarterbacks insanely overvalued. Should Joey Harrington be worth more than the best RBs?

Milestones have no place in a league that gives yardage scoring already.

Milestones are a simplified version of yardage scoring, not an accompaniment.

You do get rewarded for 300 yards passing or 100 yards rushing... you get your yardage points. They shouldn't deserve big bonuses over 298 and 98 yards. The extra "tick" for getting another 20/25/whatever yards the scale is, fine. A bonus on top of that? No.

After some of the trades Certis made last year seeing him back this proposal is enough to put me firmly against it.

Every trade I made benefited the other guy in a tangible and necessary way last year, my trade with Neo put him into the playoffs. In a 20 team league everyone is going to be desperate to fill gaps in their line-up. Of course you're going to drive for a solid trade! Just because I paid attention every day and worked to make solid pick-ups when most people couldn't be bothered doesn't suddenly make me some kind of exploiter.

If you're really suggesting I was cheating then or that I would exploit the rule in a 12 team committed league feel free to bow out. You're doing neither of us any favors with cheap shots like that.

In general, I'm pretty flexible on rules, a lot of you guys have been doing this a lot longer than I have.

Trading is not a zero-sum game. If your backup is better than someone's starter, and someone else's backup at another position is better than one of your starters, then each player improves their starting lineup with the trade - because, after all, points scored by your backups don't do you any good.

winner of the Toilet bowl, in theory, has to buy beer the first round at the next draft...lol
I thought it was the loser of the TB (i.e. the worst of the worst) that bought the beer. Then again, maybe we did it differently.

Every trade I made benefited the other guy in a tangible and necessary way last year, my trade with Neo put him into the playoffs.
I wasn't there but just with the context of this statement.... A trade is supposed to benefit both teams. I specifically left "equally" out of that statement because, as Legion said, it's never a zero-sum equation but trades should also never be one-sided. You mention that a particular trade "put Neo into the playoffs" but what did it do for your team? How do you think Neo's opponent(s) felt?

Lineup Change Deadline lock player 10 mins prior to respective game
Any reason to not just make this game time? If so, I'd request it at least be reduced to 5 minutes. I'm a notorious procrastinator.

+1/-1 for all turnovers. As much as there are a number of factors that can go into a fumble, there are many variables in a play that results in an INT, and not all of them are the QB's fault.

I prefer no IR list for the same reasons as Stric9. Even with only 12 coaches (I snicker when I say "only" because 12 is still the biggest league I'd ever play in), the free agent pool will be thin and people will need to make some risk/reward decisions. That being said, if it's limited to 1 or 2 slots, I can live with it.

If the league supports it, I'd propose that the TE position be a "flex" position and can utilize a player from any non-QB position. This is mostly due to the fact that the talent (from a fantasy production POV anyway) falls off so quickly from the #1 TE to the #12 TE.

Use Retroactive Stats No
What's this mean?

Home Field Advantage Points None
Please keep it this way. HFA in fantasy is just silly.

1pt per 50 yards passing. 1 point per 20 yards rushing/receiving. 4 pts per passing TD. 6 points per rushing/receiving TD.

In general, I generally prefer a simpler system without a lot of "bonuses" like

Passing TDs: scaled if possible - 4 pt for 1-20 yards, 5 pts for 21-40 yards, 6 pts for 41 - +++ yards - and before anyone says anything, I favor this scale BE CONSISTENT - same for RB and WR and TE.
that just complicate things. Longer touchdowns already get points for the yards and don't need extra points on top of that. Think of it this way, if you can't read the scroll across the bottom of the screen and figure out your guys' points while sitting at the bar, it's too complicated. Of course, this is just my personal philosophy.

Grumpicus wrote:
If the league supports it, I'd propose that the TE position be a "flex" position and can utilize a player from any non-QB position. This is mostly due to the fact that the talent (from a fantasy production POV anyway) falls off so quickly from the #1 TE to the #12 TE.

I'm with you on most things, but not here.

The fact that TE value drops off heavily is a big part of strategy in the game. It forces you to pass on a RB/WR/etc you might want, because you want to get one of the valuable TEs. Or you get killer value on some of the backs and receivers left on the board, and try to get by with a sleeper TE (or dig up a free agent during the season). Making it a "flex" position just takes the strategy out of it. You do that too much and you might as well just draft off of cheat sheets instead of having to actually think and gauge value. A top TE should be valuable, not matched by a bunch of #2 WRs and average running backs.

Longer touchdowns already get points for the yards and don't need extra points on top of that.

Yes. Thank you.

I thought it was the loser of the TB (i.e. the worst of the worst) that bought the beer

Correct. The loser is the "winner". In my league, the loser/"winner" gets the Toilet Bowl trophy...

Certis wrote:
Every trade I made benefited the other guy in a tangible and necessary way last year, my trade with Neo put him into the playoffs. In a 20 team league everyone is going to be desperate to fill gaps in their line-up. Of course you're going to drive for a solid trade! Just because I paid attention every day and worked to make solid pick-ups when most people couldn't be bothered doesn't suddenly make me some kind of exploiter.
If you're really suggesting I was cheating then or that I would exploit the rule in a 12 team committed league feel free to bow out. You're doing neither of us any favors with cheap shots like that.

No one said you were cheating. I think we will avoid these kind of situations this year because there are less teams (therefore less demand) and the owners as a group are more competitive and experienced fantasy-wise.

One thing that DID bother me a little was some of the trades you made were for guys that you picked up during the games, or immediately after. That was perfectly legal and fine, but I would like some kind of waiver rule this year that disallows pick-ups on Sundays. I for one don't like have to watch NFL games from in front of my computer.

In my other super competitive league, we lock the rosters starting on the first snap of the week and open the waiver wire at Noon the day after the last game. That way everyone has a chance has a chance to digest the injury report and make their moves. Waiver order is remembered for the whole seasons, so you will have at least one week where you are first to pick.

I won't be surprised if it continues to be first come/first serve as coming up with a custom waiver agreement that everyone will agree to is very difficult, but I thought I would put it out there.

This is all just my opinion, but I know I hate sitting at a bar and seeing a big player go down and KNOW that I will have no shot at his backup or some replacement.

I'm in favor of the TE being a separate position - the lack of depth at TE is what makes it a strategy play as to when/why to draft a TE.

As long as the league can block an unfair trade, i don't care if its imbalanced - well, I do, but if Certis or anyone can work a trade that benefits him more...well...fill your boots and good on you.

I do like HFA - but I'm not stuck on it - I don't care on this rule much either way.

And Grumps, I can be drunk at a bar and figure out an entire teams score with my system - its all scaled - no bonuses or 4 for a QB, 5 for a WR, 6 for a RB stuff...its straight across the board - a TD is a TD and scores are based on the yardage. But again...I'm fine whatever we go with.

Lineup changes - I'm a HUGE fan of gametime locks...not so much a procrastinator...but I will change players up to game time - and, one of the features I love on both yahoo and cbs is if you have two players in late games, you can still move them as needed...you get no advantage over others from being able to make a change up to game time over 10 minutes before.

Good quarterbacks throw 20+ TDs. Good running backs run for 8+ TDs.
- ah...but the difference is even your average QB's will put 20 TD's on the book for you, while the RB difference is larger. Thats why it should be even, i.e 5 pts for a TD regardless, or scale...but I'm not in favor of RB's get 6 pts, QB's get 4 - it makes that first RB pick too valuable over a manning stud pick.

when is the draft date btw?

*Legion* wrote:
The fact that TE value drops off heavily is a big part of strategy in the game. It forces you to pass on a RB/WR/etc you might want, because you want to get one of the valuable TEs. Or you get killer value on some of the backs and receivers left on the board, and try to get by with a sleeper TE (or dig up a free agent during the season). Making it a "flex" position just takes the strategy out of it. You do that too much and you might as well just draft off of cheat sheets instead of having to actually think and gauge value. A top TE should be valuable, not matched by a bunch of #2 WRs and average running backs.
Pigpen wrote:
I'm in favor of the TE being a separate position - the lack of depth at TE is what makes it a strategy play as to when/why to draft a TE.
Ok, fine. Make me work. Harumph.

Pigpen wrote:
And Grumps, I can be drunk at a bar and figure out an entire teams score with my system - its all scaled - no bonuses or 4 for a QB, 5 for a WR, 6 for a RB stuff...its straight across the board - a TD is a TD and scores are based on the yardage. But again...I'm fine whatever we go with.
Perhaps I misunderstood how your system worked or maybe you misread my comment but a key part of my statement was "the scroll across the bottom of the screen". When you see that, it generally lists only the number of TDs in aggregate and doesn't tell you that TD #1 was a 21-yard strike (5 points) and TD #2 was a 2-yard shuffle pass (4 points).

You mention that a particular trade "put Neo into the playoffs" but what did it do for your team? How do you think Neo's opponent(s) felt?

Oh, it benefited me a bit more than Neo I'm sure. Not much point in trading otherwise
No one said you were cheating. I think we will avoid these kind of situations this year because there are less teams (therefore less demand) and the owners as a group are more competitive and experienced fantasy-wise.

One thing that DID bother me a little was some of the trades you made were for guys that you picked up during the games, or immediately after. That was perfectly legal and fine, but I would like some kind of waiver rule this year that disallows pick-ups on Sundays. I for one don't like have to watch NFL games from in front of my computer.


Already locked in place, transactions are locked before the first game and remain so until Monday at midnight (Tuesday morning). After that the waiver system kicks in. You gotta understand, I hated last year's system too, it made no sense at all but you HAD to pick up someone hot right away or someone else would, I got beat to a player on a number of occasions. I got a bit miffed at Stric because fair play is really important to me and I don't take accusations of cheating or bending the rules very well. In last year's season I had to work within the rules to remain competitive, I didn't like it but there you go. Now let's move on, I'll send Stric some flowers and beer

I'm going to go ahead and change some league settings based on everything I've read here so far and the general consensus as best I can. We'll see how things look.

when is the draft date btw?

Anytime we want. It can be done in one session or spread out over a week with a four hour window per pick. Spreading it out is actually kind of cool. You say the guy has four hours to pick and the timer pauses at night after like 11PM until the following morning. Might be an easier solution than trying to pick a day/time that everyone can make for a live draft.

Considering that 3 of us live in Winnipeg - and the rest of you all live somewhere thats not Winnipeg (so its inconsequential to the argument at hand) - I'd vote a live draft at one of places - i'll bring the beer and what not - I always love live drafts (and generally prefer them at a hooters to boot...but the hooters here is ... ummm... heroine addict nasty...)

I vote live draft - its more fulfilling, and makes it more immediate when some owner (asshat in the making...lol) drafts a player that just got cut two days ago, and as a group, we can mock him all at once! Woot!

And Grump, you seem to be someone who loves the game of football - I'm quite surprised at you - if you are watching all 10 or so games on, and checking updates on 2 channels, you can quite easily see the ticker that tells the yardage, and quite frankly, I usually just get kinda an ESP type feel - in other words, if they go 'ooh...big play - I assume 6) - but the tickers I see have yards with them - don't they?

Oh...and I plan to SOOOO dominate you all in this league, its almost sad.

Pigpen wrote:
And Grump, you seem to be someone who loves the game of football - I'm quite surprised at you - if you are watching all 10 or so games on, and checking updates on 2 channels, you can quite easily see the ticker that tells the yardage, and quite frankly, I usually just get kinda an ESP type feel - in other words, if they go 'ooh...big play - I assume 6) - but the tickers I see have yards with them - don't they?
Well my comment was mostly in the "general rule of thumb" vein since these days - thanks to the twin two-year-old terrors (not really, they're lovely children, if a bit... energetic) I can barely get the opportunity to distractedly keep one eye on one channel on Sunday afternoons and with another one due in October, I suspect I'll be getting most of my football from the highlight shows. I still fall back on my comment that we don't need bonus points for long TDs vs. short TDs since the yards themselves already inherently yield points.

Settings as they stand right now. I bolded some of the more important bits.

League Name and Password [Edit]
League Name GWJCFFL
League Password ilovestan

Draft Settings [Edit]
Draft Type Live Draft
Draft Date (EST) Mon, Sep 5
Draft Time (EST) 9:00 PM
Time limit per pick 90 sec

League Rules [Edit]
Max Teams in League 12
Player Pool All
Lineup Change Deadline lock player 10 mins prior to respective game
Regular Season Tiebreaker Team with more Bench points wins
Can't Cut List None
Time managers have to protest trades 2 Days
Trades reviewed by League Votes
Trade Deadline Week 12
Time on Waivers 2 Days
Initial Waiver Order Reverse Draft Order
Waiver System Reset Weekly -- Inverse of Standings
Players are locked after draft Yes
How many days? 2 days
After lock period Place players on waivers
Players are locked in-season Yes
Start beginning of first game
End 12:00 AM Tue (Mon night)
After lock period Place players on waivers

Positions & Roster [Edit]
Quarterback 1
Running Back 2
Wide Receiver 3
Tight End 1
Kicker 1
Defense & Special Teams 1
Bench 8
Total roster size 17
Use IR list No

League Scoring [Edit]
Use Fractional Points No
Use Retroactive Stats No
Home Field Advantage Points None
Advanced Scoring System
Passing Attempts 0 points each
Passing Completions 0 points each
Passing First Downs 0 points each
Times Sacked (passer) 0 points each
Passing TDs 0-29 yards = 4 points
30-49 yards = 5 points
50+ yards = 6 points

Passing Interceptions -1 point each
Passing Yards 1 point for every 50 yards

Passing 2pt. Conversions 2 points each
Rushing Attempts 0 points each
Rushing First Downs 0 points each
Rushing TDs 6 points each
Rushing Yards 1 point for every 20 yards

Rushing 2pt. Conversions 2 points each
Receptions 0 points each
Receiving First Downs 0 points each
Receiving TDs 6 points each
Receiving Yards 1 point for every 20 yards

Receiving 2pt. Conversions 2 points each
Fumble Recoveries for TD 6 points each
Fumbles Lost -1 point each
Return Yards 1 point for every 50 yards
Return TDs 0 points each
Field Goals 0-19 yards = 3 points
20-29 yards = 3 points
30-39 yards = 3 points
40-49 yards = 4 points
50+ yards = 5 points

Missed Field Goals -1 point each
Extra Points Made 1 point each
Extra Points Missed -1 point each
Yards Allowed 1-49 yard = 13 points
50-99 yards = 10 points
100-149 yards = 8 points
150-199 yards = 6 points
200-249 yards = 4 points
250-299 yards = 2 points
350+ yards = -2 points

Points Allowed 0-1 points = 13 points
2-5 points = 12 points
6-8 points = 10 points
9-11 points = 8 points
12-15 points = 6 points
16-21 points = 5 points
22-26 points = 3 points
32-36 points = -1 point
37+ points = -3 points

Interceptions 1 point each
Sack 1 point each
Any Defensive TD 6 points each
Safety 2 points each
Tackle 0 points each
Defensive Fumble Recoveries 1 point each
Any blocked kick 2 points each

Playoffs [Edit]
Number of teams who make playoffs 6 teams - 3 playoff rounds (top two teams earn byes)
Start Playoffs Week 14
Playoff Game Tiebreakers 1. Team with more Bench Points wins
2. Team with most Touchdowns wins
Playoff Seed Tiebreakers 1. Head to Head record
2. Total Season points

If you're really suggesting I was cheating then or that I would exploit the rule in a 12 team committed league feel free to bow out. You're doing neither of us any favors with cheap shots like that.

Certis, that wasn't supposed to be all that serious. You absolutely killed people on trades last year so I was just trying to point out that perhaps we should think twice about letting you convince people to trade players that you surely would have had last year had they not been un-tradeable. I would have added a wink icon but for the life of me I can't find the smileys on the new site so the only one I can do is this.