"Nuke option" averted

Fourteen senators from both sides just announced a deal for cloiture on most of the judicial nominees, although there is a clause that allows for fillibuster if there are "extreme circumstances." Interestingly enough that this jabs a rather big fork in the eye of the leaderships of both parties, since the deal came from the likes of John McCain, John Warner, Robert Byrd, and what's his name from so-and-so state. One wonders if this agreement will mean anything in the end, since Bill Frist was looking forward to invoking the "nuclear option."

Can you put a link up? I'm curious as to the disposition of the nominees in this scenario.

One article I read about this suggested that this would hurt Frist's chances for the Presidential Nomination in 2008...

And all I can say is THANK GOD. Anyone stupid enough to sacrifice the whole system of Congress for the sake of a few judges... ie. destroy something very dear for a short term boost... is a f***ing retard and should not be anywhere in politics, if you ask me... much less President of the United States... all party politics asside.

Here you are, Robear.

The problem I have with calling it a "nuke option" is that it's relatively far worse than any nuclear weapon in any arsenal of the world's militaries; it's a world killer. Destroying the fillibuster system would not only harm the Democrats, but ultimately, in the end, it would have swung back and hit the Republicans just as hard once the balance in Congress shifts.

I love Dobson's quote at the bottom:

Dr. James C. Dobson, head of the Focus on the Family, one of the conservative groups that had made an end to judicial filibusters a top priority, said the agreement "represents a complete bailout and a betrayal by a cabal of Republicans and a great victory for united Democrats."

So moderation and compromise are now unaccptable to the leader of "Focus on the Family". Do the republicans really want to cozy up to these people?

And kudos to both sides for their agreement to compromise.

I kind of have a feeling they're saving the real battle for Bolton.

Thanks RB. Some good analysis in the Post today, too. Haven't checked out Fox's spin on it yet.

I think it's straight up, that the worry was indeed that heading into new parliamentary territory with
a closely divided Senate and an upcoming Supreme Court vacancy was not a good idea. And of
course the long view is important too, considering the precedent that would be set.

Robear wrote:

Haven't checked out Fox's spin on it yet.

Probably a lot of whining, as I have been hearing from conservative "political analysts" on TV this morning. A few of them, such as Terry Jeffrey on MSNBC, are accusing John McCain of being a liberal and a traitor to the Republican party.

Rat Boy wrote:

A few of them, such as Terry Jeffrey on MSNBC, are accusing John McCain of being a liberal and a traitor to the Republican party.

Heh, you are either with us or against us. I am soo very happy that the Conservatives pundits still think that the Republican party is the party of inclusion, as long as you agree with exactly what they say.

I can't wait for Reinquist to retire, this is theater compared to that fight. Coming this summer to a Senate near you!

I dunno, I don't think Reinquist is going to be a big deal. He's already a conservative vote so if he's replaced with another conservative the balance won't be shifted any. I think the dems understand that and won't fight for a moderate too hard.

Though I do consider myself an independent (during this administration that means I'm a liberal), I'd gladly vote for McCain over Hilary or Dean or even a DECENT Democrat. I've long respected his centrist views and his willingness to break with the party line when he feels it appropriate.

A few of them, such as Terry Jeffrey on MSNBC, are accusing John McCain of being a liberal and a traitor to the Republican party.

Hell, this isn't even the first time that's happened... as I remember it, he was the original target of the Swift Boat guys wasn't he? And they claimed all sorts of stuff against him. I'm still waiting for these morons to go after Dole and explain away the fact that he can't use one arm for anything other than holding a pen.

That said, I think that the OTHER Republicans are the ones who are the true traitors, to be honest. TRUE... we are supposed to look at all judges equally, blah blah blah... but why is it that Frist and the rest at like they have an overwhelming majority here? Nearly half of America is against most of these judges that are being contested. Now, admitteldy 51% was a "mandate from the masses" according to W, but come on... is the rest of the party stupid enough to believe that? When Bush is trying to put big idealogues into judge positions, he has to know that there will be opposition... and when he doesn't a SECOND TIME after they were denied it the first time... then... give me a break numbnuts, it's not that difficult to figure out what's gonna happen, and the party acting like it's a total surprise... is just stupid. But, I gotta say, W's refusal or ignorance of what the other half of the country wants (in any debate, not just this one) is starting to get a bit tiring... it was fun to laugh about how his abortion council was a bunch of higher ups in the Babtist and Catholic religions... but give me a break, it's getting old.

LobsterMobster wrote:

Though I do consider myself an independent (during this administration that means I'm a liberal), I'd gladly vote for McCain over Hilary or Dean or even a DECENT Democrat. I've long respected his centrist views and his willingness to break with the party line when he feels it appropriate.

I dunno that'd I've vote him over... Dean. But Hillary? Oh GOD F***ing HELL YES! Don't get me wrong, I think we are WAY past prime for our first female President... but I will never support Hillary Clinton. Any time I hear that woman speak, I wanna jab a spoon up my arse or something... just to be in CONTROL of the pain I am recieving. Rides her husband's coattails into power... and then acts like she never used a single bit of his popularity for her own power... give me a break, that's not the kind of crap we need in the White House.

IMAGE(http://img8.echo.cx/img8/782/scary9et.jpg)

:O

If the made THAT face more often maybe Bill wouldn't have needed Monica... wait, are we allowed to make dirty jokes in P&C? I think this is the first time I've tried.

BURN THE WITCH...BURN HER!!!

*edit* and referencing the general challenge I had in the other topic, I can honestly, with a straight face, say she is the only politician/person I can think of that I can not find one single thing positive to say or think about her. Not ONE...

I can honestly, with a straight face, say she is the only politician/person I can think of that I can not find one single thing positive to say or think about her. Not ONE...

Wow... PP... are... we agreeing... on... something? I suddnely feel VERY dirty. I think I need a shower.

Ever time I see Hillary speak, she looks like she is thinking of the lie to tell to the camera right before she opens her mouth. She is a carpetbagger who should go back to Arkansas. If a real Republican candidate went against her for Senator (Pataki, Guiliani, heck I might bet on Bloomberg) she would lose.. she barely beat Lazio, and he ran a horrible campaign.

McCain will never be nominated for the Republican ticket for the presidency, not after what happened yesterday; the Christian right will destroy him in 2008, unleashing their attack dogs once again. This act pretty much killed his political career.

Indeed. I still can't understand how he's stuck with the party after how they dogged him in 2000. It got downright vicious.

I agree that Frist killed his chances at the pres by allowing himself to be undermined by centrists. He should have pushed the "firecracker" option. What is explosive about having the elected majority rule? The truth is the senators in the majority want the fillibuster because it gives them ground cover when something goes awry and nothing gets done.

Let me see if I have the pattern right. The current government can't get anything done because of the fillibuster so they are voted out. The new party eventually regains power because nothing was accomplished....They don't get anything done because of the fillibuster...Back to the beginning.

Its time for the fillibuster to go. If the politicians don't do what is right with their power, we will let them know in November.

Prederick wrote:

Indeed. I still can't understand how he's stuck with the party after how they dogged him in 2000. It got downright vicious.

I think the time is right for both the Republican and Democratic parties to split. Maybe moderates from both get together and create a mid-party, and the extremes in both parties are weakened.

But change scares the stupid majority of Americans. I mean just look at Nascar. Drive fast and turn left.

Edwin wrote:

But change scares the stupid majority of Americans. I mean just look at Nascar. Drive fast and turn left.

Yoink!

What is explosive about having the elected majority rule?

Because the majority of voters did not vote for Senate Republicans. It is possible to have a majority of Senators in a bloc that represents far less than a majority of citizens. The Senate is designed to preserve the rights of the minority, versus the House, which is more subject to "the tyranny of the majority" as it's called. (That is, the likelihood that the majority will attempt to just roll over the minority). The term "elected majority" sort of brushes that under the carpet by implying that Republicans are a majority of voters, which they are not.

Remember, majority in political representation does not equal majority in the popular vote. The US system is very supportive of minority rights in politics. That's why the filibuster exists.

Also, bear in mind that up until 1917, judicial nominees passed or failed based on a *unanimous* vote in the Senate. Care to put that historical standard back into play? That's been eroded to 2/3 majority, then 60 votes, and the nuclear option would put it at simple majority, de facto. We've abandoned any pretense that the President should nominate people who appeal to both sides; do you think very many of Bush's appointments would have gotten unanimous votes?

Frist didn't kill his his chances because of the centrists. Frist killed his chances when he walked out on Senator Byrd mid-debate.

Two quick points:

1) Our political system is not parlimentary - that is, the system is designed to not smother minority points. Robear covered that above, and there was a great post back here somewhere : http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/15351

2) I really have to ask: Why all the Hillary Clinton hate above? I'm quite genuinly curious. I see so much hate directed towards her, and I can't quite place the source. Anyone want to enlighten me?

3) (yeah, yeah, I know, can't count) Go moderate centrists! Don't let the jargon get you down!

I dislike Hilary because she's a celebrity. Hence, we can refer to her as Hilary as we might Britney. She really didn't turn my head in her service as a first lady or senator, so the only reason I can think of her running for president is because she's already well-known from Bill's terms.

Re: McCain. I still believe in a secular government. Maybe some day we'll have a president that does, too.

I'm going to have to agree with Lobster... in spite of that horribly stupid avatar.

Hillary really didn't do THAT MUCH as First Lady. For such a woman who was "passionate" about so many things... she did jack squat for much more than education (a worthy cause... but telling people, hey do something... pointless!). And, honestly, it seemed to me, that she stayed with Clinton PURELY for the chance to get into politics... that is to say, I was surprised she didn't divorce him until I heard she was running for Senate, at which point, it made a lot of sense... but was WAY slimey.

And, yes, the Filibuster is an important tool in keeping the majority from trampling everything the other side wants, especially in a very close Senate like we have now (if I remember correctly)... why is it so many people are willing to give it up for a few judges?

And, seriously, what's with the stupidity and down-right idiotic behavior of some Republicans with these judges? Oooh, the Left doesn't like your female judges, so claim the Left is trying to destroy women's rights... even though most of these female judges have spent their lifetime... DOING JUST THAT! This is a very good time to say... WTF?!

Demosthenes wrote:

And, seriously, what's with the stupidity and down-right idiotic behavior of some Republicans with these judges? Oooh, the Left doesn't like your female judges, so claim the Left is trying to destroy women's rights... even though most of these female judges have spent their lifetime... DOING JUST THAT! This is a very good time to say... WTF?!

Unfortunately, this sort of spin behavior isn't restricted to Republicans - everyone does it, and I think if people were a little more aware of what was going on noone would get away with it.

As for Hillary, I feel that most people have unjustified negative feelings towards her. Demo, you say you felt she stayed with Clinton for the purpose of getting into politics...but can you really say this claim in based upon anything more then a feeling? Perhaps a feeling aided by countless negative pundit comments? Disliking her for her politcal opinions is one thing, but I often find that people hate her because they feel she embodies traits we don't like our women to have, and this is aided by SNL skits and the like.

2008 should be fun. I hope McCain runs against Frist. It would be a real test of the strength of the religious right. If McCain wins, can we put an end to Robears theories about the religious right?

I'm a huge fan of John McCain. We need more politicians with the sack to stand for what they believe in instead of what their party believes in.

I wouldn't necessarily say that...

I like women that are strong, self-motivated, willing to fight for what they believe in, etc... It's HAWT.

But, for some reason, there's just something about HC that pisses me off. Maybe it's the carpetbagging run in New York. Hell, I don't think it would have even made sense for her to run FOR ARKANSAS, she hadn't actively lived there for 8 years. I'd say that's more than enough time to lose perspective or understanding on what's really important to the people of your Congressional district. Maybe it was riding Bill's coattails, especially while looking so pissed at him for the last couple of months while he apologized and just tried to lay low.

Who knows? I don't... I just know, if it was a race between a centrist and Hillary... I'd totally vote for the Centrist (especially if it was like Dole or McCain... ESPECIALLY McCain... I like that guy)...

But then again, if it was say... her and Frist... I'd hate it... but I'd have to go Hillary.