T.O. angling to get run out of Philly

From ESPN

Donovon McNabb wrote:
Don't try to throw names or guys under the bus to better yourself. You never heard me say any names in any situation, You never heard me talk about any given players. I'm the guy to be professional and be a man about things."

Go get 'em, McNabb. Give him that verbal beatdown!

Punk

What if he sits out the whole year?.

We tried tot tell Philly Fan.

Maybe I missed it but I didn''t see anything in there about T.O leaving the team.

It was on CNN. A spokesperson for him (or friend, who knows) said he will sit out all year if he has too.

Then again, alot of players say that and only McCardell delivered.

I dont think he will sit - he came to Philly to make more money - he made more money - he took the contract because he wanted out and now he is paying for being spoiled. That being said he stands to lose quite a bit of money and he could sit out all FIVE years of his contract and lose everything... It isnt like he has one year left - he has FIVE... Players Union wont have sympathy because they told him dont sign the contract in the first place... Now Legion or Grump correct me if I am wrong in years remaining or in this following thought - if he sits - he loses his paycheck, he can be fined upwards of 1000 bucks a day for all the missed practices and then fined again for missed gmaes during the regular season? Additionally his contract wont count against salary cap so Philly can look for someone - albeit it wont be TO caliber to fill the gap at a point in June I believe... You super uber football minds have any additional info ?

Not only that, Philly can try to get his signing bonus money back as well.

"karmajay" wrote:
It was on CNN. A spokesperson for him (or friend, who knows) said he will sit out all year if he has too.

Then again, alot of players say that and only McCardell delivered.

Joey Galloway and Errict Rhett come to mind too. Probably the only three I can think of that really did the ""sit out 10, show up for the last 6 to get your accrued season"" approach.

"SpyNavy" wrote:
if he sits - he loses his paycheck, he can be fined upwards of 1000 bucks a day for all the missed practices and then fined again for missed gmaes during the regular season?

He can''t be fined for missed games during the season - he forefits his game check for any games he misses. He can be fined for missing mandatory workouts like the minicamps going on right now.

Additionally his contract wont count against salary cap

Partially true, though probably not quite in the manner you''d expect. Most of his *salary* for 2005 will not count against the cap, because it will be forefit. However, Owens will have to join the team for 6 games this season if he wants to get credit for playing this year. He will receive his game checks for those 6 games. Also, his *signing bonus* (and any other received bonus money up to this point) will continue to count against the cap, minus any part that the Eagles might be able to get back from Owens.

Because Owens'' salary is pretty low for this year (part of the reason he''s not happy), the Eagles will not receive much savings from Owens sitting out.

Plus, as I understand it, the Eagles will not receive any savings until Owens actually start missing games. Until he misses a certain game, he has not yet defaulted on his end of the agreement for that game''s money. So instead of saving money up front, the Eagles would get some money (capwise) back over the course of the season, up until Owens returns. He has the choice to return anytime, and so even if he goes to the team or media or whatever and say he''s going to miss 10 games, the Eagles will still have Owens'' salary money for those games counting against the cap until Owens actually misses the games. So the Eagles would have some extra cap money during the season, which could help for mid-season injury replacement signings.

Most likely, they would hold onto it, and use a neat trick to add that money to the 2006 salary cap. Last year, the Jaguars were sitting on a full $6 million of free cap space during the season in 2004. That''s no chump change. What they did was give 3rd string QB Qunn Gray a new deal that contained performance bonuses that he would not likely reach (since, well, he wasn''t even going to step on the field). However, any performance bonuses in contracts done DURING the season are considered ""likely to be earned"" bonuses and are thus counted against the cap for that season. So that ate up that $6 million. However, once you move to the next season, if you had money counted against the cap for ""likely to be earned"" bonuses, and the bonuses were not actually earned, then you are credited that cap space back for the new season. So essentially, the Jaguars took that $6 mil from 2004 and added it to 2005, which is why they have had the most free cap space of any team for most of the offseason.

I would expect the Eagles to do something similar, so that they could use the freed money in 2006 where they could do something with it. You can''t do much with money during the season except add emergency players.

"karmajay" wrote:
Not only that, Philly can try to get his signing bonus money back as well.

Yes, they can pursue that... a whopping $1.8 million dollars.

What? $1.8 mil? Well, you see, Terrell Owens''s $9.6 million ""signing bonus"" was not what it seems. He actually received $6.2 million in the form of a roster bonus for last year - the requirements of which he met in full by being on the roster last year. Of the remaining $3.4 million, it seems that only $1.8 can be retrieved by the Eagles (probably due to the wording of the contract).

Thanks for the insight - looks like a good old fashioned stand-off. TO could lose bucks he already needs and Philly could lose a few games without him - although they didnt do too badly last year when he wasnt in. He is a difference maker though and the rest of the NFC East is improving - tough call to make as a GM... Any thoughts on how this gets resolved?

Best comments I heard on this was roughly as follows; The players can respect TO for trying to get all the money he can, it''s a professional business after all. Where he has screwed up is bringing his teammates performance into it.

TO''s problem, imo, is that he can''t just be good, he undoubtedly is, he has to be better than his teammates.

Yeah my commentary doesnt even address what an as* he is for besmirching his team mates, espeically McNabb whom I thought was fairly close to TO. Tough call on how his comments impacts McNabb and his desire to even deal with T.O. anymore - reminds me of Culpepper and Moss in a way.

Yeah Spy, both Moss and TO have ""wide receiver syndrome".

I heard a good piece by Frank DeFord (whom I usually don''t like) about how some WRs don''t see themselves as part of the team. For them its a one-on-one, look at me! look at me! world. The only person they have to depend on is the QB, so when anything goes wrong it's got to be his fault.

Shame really, because TO is by all accounts a hard worker, with great natural ability. He could really be a major star in the league, instead of being a major ass.

Oh well, maybe he and Ricky Williams can start a new ""who wants to play with us?""team.

EDIT: cause my fingers are thick

I was actually warming up to him in the last season and until his comments I ddint really have much of an issue on the contract thing, but after he ran his mouth (AGAIN) it illustrates that he is a no-class ass with athletic ability, but zero character.

ditto spy''s last comments!

"Larsson" wrote:
Yeah Spy, both Moss and TO have ""wide receiver syndrome".

Makes me happy to have Jimmy Smith on my team instead. He''s gettin'' old now, but in his prime run, he and Marvin Harrison quietly outperformed the rest of the NFL in catches and yards.

Sad how both are quickly passing by Hall of Famers on the all-time receptions and yards lists, and neither are the first names to come up in discussions of the best receivers of their time. Jimmy''s name usually doesn''t come up in the conversation at all!

As a 49er fan who believed TO was misunderstood until his last season on the team......its nice to see the 49ers were not totally wrong about him. I had to watch him dog it for a full season just to get what he wanted.

I love that he has already started tossing jabs at Mcnabb. The guy is a headcase that needs to be dealt with and not coddled.

I think it''s because Jimmy Smith is consistent without every (or rarely) being spectacular. He lead the league only once in catches (1999), only broke 100 catches twice, and never scored more than 8 TDs in a year.

Still, he should break into the top 10 in catchs (815: he has 792) and yards (12,146: he has 11,264) this season without to much trouble. That alone should make him a first ballot HoFer unless the spector of drug use (4 game suspension in ''03) keeps him out. Too bad he sat on the bench in Dallas for 3 years.

In the case of Marvin Harrison though, I disagree. I think that most people would consider him one of the best all time receivers right now, even though he trails Smith in yards. He''ll end up with an all time Top 5 position in catches and TDs (maybe #2 there) EASILY unless he suddenly becomes injury prone.

I think Harrison is a guaranteed HoF - as for Smith - I don''t think theres any chance on a first ballot...just not spectacular enough...I do hope he has the legs to get in though - helluva player - on the field and in fantasy football..

The next 10-15 years of football will be quite interesting. Jerry Rice ushered in the era of the truly premier WR. My guess is that quite of few of those top 5 positions are going to change drastically. Add to that the fact that the NFL has changed rules to benefit the passing game and WR''s in general......well those stats are just going to be readjusted and what is considered ""HOF"" quality will be re-examined.

Harrison is still likely a first ballot. If remember correctly Jimmy was suspended for drug use one season and that may hamper any chance he did have.

Ohh and nobody will ever touch JR''s 22TD''s in 12 games back in 1987.

"JimmDogg" wrote:
I think it''s because Jimmy Smith is consistent without every (or rarely) being spectacular. He lead the league only once in catches (1999), only broke 100 catches twice, and never scored more than 8 TDs in a year.

He''s becoming the next Art Monk.

Monk, similarly, never broke 8 touchdowns, and he only broke 100 catches once. Jimmy''s got more 1000 yard seasons and Pro Bowls than Monk.

Still, he should break into the top 10 in catchs (815: he has 792) and yards (12,146: he has 11,264) this season without to much trouble. That alone should make him a first ballot HoFer

Should, but hasn''t helped Monk. Michael Irvin got on the ballot ahead of Monk, despite fewer catches, yards, and TDs.

In the case of Marvin Harrison though, I disagree. I think that most people would consider him one of the best all time receivers right now, even though he trails Smith in yards. He''ll end up with an all time Top 5 position in catches and TDs (maybe #2 there) EASILY unless he suddenly becomes injury prone.

Well what I said is that Harrison is usually not the first name to come up, and Jimmy''s doesn''t come up at all. I can''t remember the last time someone was asked the question of ""whose the best WR right now?"" and the first name they said was ""Marvin Harrison"". He gets respect, but the league''s Michael Irvin disciples get talked up first.

"NeoCell" wrote:
If remember correctly Jimmy was suspended for drug use one season and that may hamper any chance he did have.

Lawrence Taylor

Lawrence Taylor

Bad comparison. Lawrence Taylor redefined a position. Jimmy, though a great player that I like is just another good WR who puts up solid and consistent numbers.

Now comparing LT sans drug use to say Jerry Rice would make more sense.

Should, but hasn''t helped Monk. Michael Irvin got on the ballot ahead of Monk, despite fewer catches, yards, and TDs.

Three rings, a big mouth and constant pushing off (ie..offensive pass interference) pays.

"NeoCell" wrote:

Bad comparison. Lawrence Taylor redefined a position. Jimmy, though a great player that I like is just another good WR who puts up solid and consistent numbers.

Sure, but some of LT''s extra achievements have to be offset by the fact that LT was a hell of a lot more of a druggie scandal than Jimmy. Jimmy''s violation was barely a blip on the radar. If he never tests positive again, I have a feeling it

Come to think of it, Michael Irvin had multiple cocaine possession arrests. He''s probably a better comparison to Jimmy than LT.

Come to think of it, Michael Irvin had multiple cocaine possession arrests. He''s probably a better comparison to Jimmy than LT.
\\

Agreed.....better comparison. Though, Irvin was never suspended and then of course there is the self promotion and 3 SB Rings.

I think Jimmy Smith will be the next Monk in the ballet room...he''ll be viewed as an extremely good ball player - but many will not view him as a HoF''er. More to come...since I don''t vote.

But yeah, if you ask me the best receiver in the game...I would say Harrison as my first choice - you look at contribution, production, consistency, work ethic, etc...he blows away the Moss and TO''s...imho

I can''t remember the last time someone was asked the question of ""whose the best WR right now?"" and the first name they said was ""Marvin Harrison"".

That''s a different question than your first one which was ""who is the best receiver of their time"".

If you asked me or many of my friends who has been the best receiver of the last ten years (my prime Fantasy time), we would all say Marvin.

I am probably not a good person to talk about the HoF though, I don''t really follow the voting that close. It''s an interesting conversation though.

Mike Irvin is a punk, although I do enjoy him in the studio. Micheal Irvin being in the hall of fame is a joke, IMO. Look at his career stats.

Irvin < Sterling Sharp.

I don''t stats will get you in the HoF on themselves anymore...Look at the recievers putting up 100+ catch seasons, etc...

The question is were they a playmaker for years and years...did they play their best games in the toughest games, etc...

For instance...I sure would love to see Moss or TO never reach the hall...

My only knock against Marvin is his sucess was/is largely bred because of his environment..

Having a payroll 80% devoted to offense...playing with the players he has around him and on turf inflated his numbers to some degree.

Now theres nothing he can do about that... he has excelled in every aspect of his game.. and he''s easily top 5 currently amongst recievers.

No SB''s and fairly lackluster playoff numbers will hurt him but he''s still a HOF easy.

In terms of skill/numbers I still have to go

Moss/Harrison/TO/Ward

For instance...I sure would love to see Moss or TO never reach the hall...

sorta throws out everything you say based on your bias.

Not trying to be bias...I guess I wouldn''t argue with TO making it. I just find that Moss (despite EASILY being the most talented receiver since Jerry Rice) and his lack of work ethic and hustle, should not make the HoF - I don''t think he has revolutionized anything but the diva persona of WR that Irvin started.

I can''t argue with the talent of TO and Moss - just that I don''t view them as HoF''ers based on the whole picture. That said, 2-3 more productive years for TO should put him in...but Moss...well...i don''t think its bias as just not viewing his performance as HoF material.