It's official! All classes gimped according to WoW Forums

"Dr.Ghastly" wrote:
"TheGameguru" wrote:
Until about a week ago. My pally was 43; just riding along in Arathi, minding her own business; in teh corner of my eye I see a horde hunter--a quick mouseover shows him to be level 40. I was not in a PvP ganking mood so I rode on. I figured this was so beneath me to even flinch. I''m almost past him, when all of a sudden his pet attacks me and slows me, simultaneously dismounting me. This peeves me off and I start chasing him. Long story short, about 1.3 minutes later I''m staring at the ""you''re dead"" screen wondering what happened, as I haven''t even landed a single hit upon the hunter. Coincidentally, his name was ""Palycrusher"".

Hmm...you should have never lost to a Hunter.. #1 rule when fighting a hunter is to ignore the pet completely and close as quick as possible...once you have them in melee range its over.

You forget a pally has no range weapon so the hunter can run away, wait for his pet to stun the paly, take a few shots, rinse and repeat.

<shrug> it happens occasionally but I dont normally hear of Hunters beating Pallys one on one... especially not Pallys 3 levels higher than them!

As a rule we tend to run from them even if you can beat them which is rare its such a long fight that I tend to get bored.

Hows the Hunter supposed to purge buffs?? plus the insta heal...with a good 2H weapon once the Pally gets close enough to stun and melee then throw up that damn 10 sec invun its usually over.

I''m not saying he should have lost, I''m just saying it isn''t as easy as you stated.

Assuming the hunter has time and room though he should be able to keep range on the paladin I would think.
The only downside of aspect of the cheetah is getting hit which the hunter shouldn''t have to worry about.

"phragged" wrote:

Assuming the hunter has time and room though he should be able to keep range on the paladin I would think.
The only downside of aspect of the cheetah is getting hit which the hunter shouldn''t have to worry about.

How bizzare... even me as a Shaman I can usually demolish hunters at an even level... let alone 3 levels below me.

Higher level hunters tend to be problematic simply because my shocks get resisted too many times.

Paladins are generally regarded as uber PVP...

But as a shaman you have spells to reach the hunter at range(which would stun him if he''s in aspect of the cheetah).
Also I hear its really hard to run away from a shaman(unless your a druid) so he would have tons of trouble keeping range.

heh...good point.. we have a 57 and a 53 level Hunter in my guild so I''ll ask them how they usually fare against Paladins.

Few commments about my experience. First, the guy (assuming he was a guy) didn''t just beat me--he crushed me as his name would imply. Second, I''m not a PvP newb either. I play on a PvP server and my record is somewhere around 40-20 (wins to losses). Third, I''m fully aware of how to fight pet classes in PvP. Fourth, as a mitigating circumstance, I had my left arm in a sling and was therefore playing with one hand only. This lowered my response time drastically.

Doesn''t change the facts. As his name would imply, he knew what he was facing and he played his cards right to the tee. Venom strike made sure I had no mana, his pet made sure I was always stunned and slow. If I fought his pet, he would pelt me with arrows, if I chased him around, his pet would gnaw on my heals. There literally was nothing I could do.

Now before someone comes in with great insights about potions of freedom and speed... I didn''t have any and I currently do not have easy access to them. So potions don''t count. And the point of my post was that classes aren''t as gimped as people would make them out to be, not how I got ganked by a hunter 3 levels below me.

Soooo... you got owned.

Just as a pseudo on-topic moment of hilarity, I have for you the following amusing tale of griefing.

Morella and I (my rogue, Drghastly) are on our way to the coast shack in Ashenvale. On the way there we jump in the river by Astraanar(sp?) and, in a moment of pure {ableist slur}ation, I stand on a rock and take a shot at one of the elves there, a blacksmith apparently. I laugh to Morella and myself about how he can''t get me because I am in the water. I notice that my PVP flag went on and I think to myself, ""Oh well.""

Oh well indeed.

Cut to 2 minutes later Morella and I are running past Mystraes Post, or however it is spelled, and I notice a human paladin running by us, level ??. In my mind I start to think ""Uhmmm sh*t."" Then Comes the ""Maybe he didn''t see the flag, maybe he didn''t see the flag,"" over and over in my mind. I throw on the auto run and use my mouse to watch behind me. Like a damn cop the pally runs past us about 200 yards or so and then turns around, weapon out and glowing red for my blood.

""Oh sh*t, sh*t sh*t sh*t."" I yell across the apartment to Morella asking her if her PVP flag was on (because I remember hearing if you are in a group and someone turns their flag on it does it for the whole group) because if he was gunning for her I would have turned around and made a valiant stand for all of 15 seconds while she got away. She yells back it isn''t on for her, at which point I disband the group and take off running. I am, luckily, out running the paladin at first and, with auto run on occasionally look back to see where the pally is. One of the times I look back I notice the paladin is now on a damn horse. ""Oh great, at least lvl 40..."" I hit the juice (sprint) and take off, still out running the paladin (which I was laughing about.) Then sprint runs out and the paladin is getting closer and closer until he jumps off his horse and tries to hit me. I can still out run his ass so nothing happens. He jumps BACK on his horse and tries to run ahead of me to gank my ass. I throw down the potion of swiftness and start out-running him again. That wears off and the 2-minute cool down begins. The paladin catches up to me a few seconds later, jumps off the horse, and proceeds to beat me for around 80-150 a hit. Yeah, that hurt. At about 100hps left I use my healing potion, but that throws me back in potion cool down time and I can''t speed the hell up. I''m about 20 yards from the beginning of the beach (probably 400 yards to go..) when my life is at the 25% mark.

I type /laugh which I timed nicely to go ""Muahahahahahaha UGRK!! Aaaahhhhh""

When re-telling this to other GWJ people on line I sarcastically comment about how I was griefed by a paladin. When I explain what happend various comments are thrown my way including ""Haha! You got owned!"" and ""Dude, you griefed yourself.""

Yes. Yes I did. Bastards.

I type /laugh which I timed nicely to go ""Muahahahahahaha UGRK!! Aaaahhhhh""

So, you got owned too!

Didn''t have any flash powder for Vanish eh? Always carry at least 20.

Actually, no I didn''t. I haven''t even made any yet. i suppose I should..

Not sure it would have helped with a lvl 40+ though.

Actually, no I didn''t. I haven''t even made any yet. i suppose I should..

Flash powder is store bought for 22c each.

You would have got away. I vanished from a 58 undead mage and he couldn''t find me.

I thought you had to MAKE flash powder using fadeleaf?

If you''re right, then man do I *really* feel dumb.

"Dr.Ghastly" wrote:

I thought you had to MAKE flash powder using fadeleaf?

If you''re right, then man do I *really* feel dumb.

Flash powder is bought at rogue merchants (ie shady dealers), which is used for the Vanishability.

You are thinking of blinding powder (which is made from fadeleaf), and is used for the Blind ability. One fadeleaf = 3 blinding powders, which is a good ratio.

The downside to Vanish against the NPC AI is that they can see you from time to time (works almost all the time for me) but against a human opponent they usually can never see you once you vanish.

Could you imagine the Paladin''s frustration of seeing you poof? Then you could have stood behind a tree watching with a big smile on your face. That is exactly what I did against that 58 mage.

One more FYI for you rogues, you can summon your mount while in stealth mode and you don''t appear until you are on the mount and speeding away.

Sweet. Where do I find shady dealers?

"Dr.Ghastly" wrote:

Sweet. Where do I find shady dealers?

Next to or close to most rogue trainers.

Uh, that''s weird. I have NEVER seen one (Unless I am smoking serious crack here...)

Also check the top floor of various inns, as well as the ""back alley"" of Booty Bay.

I guess I am speaking for the alliance side which is different I am sure. Check this:

http://www.thottbot.com/?s=shady

"Flux" wrote:

Could you imagine the Paladin''s frustration of seeing you poof? Then you could have stood behind a tree watching with a big smile on your face.

That is until you come across a human that is aware of his/her own racial ability to see through invisibility.

I just love watching Horde rogues go stealthy on me, activate perception, and then stand there watching the stealthed rogue sneak slowly around me while I pretend I can''t see him. Then... when I can feel his saliva already dripping with anticipation... *SMASH* *BOOM* *BANG* *STUN* ""FINISH HIM!"" *rip the spine out*

That is until you come across a human that is aware of his/her own racial ability to see through invisibility.

I guess since I break bread with humans, I don''t have to worry about it. Point taken though.

What is the range on the perception? I may make an undead rogue one day and would need to know.

Yeah, I''ve noticed this as well. I have two characters I play a lot, a Paladin at lvl 32, and a Hunter at lvl 46. Both characters have their ups and downs, and I really enjoy playing both. I''ve also played a couple of rogues to around lvl 20, and they were fun as well. Granted, I can pick out a few talents/abilities *caugh*weapon specialization*caugh* that I think are a little on the craptacular side, but in the end, none of the classes I have played are anywhere near ""useless.""

I see a lot of classes talking about how they are NEVER invited to groups. I''ve seen this in the rogue, paladin, and hunter forums. Ok, none of my characters are lvl 60, but I think these people are blowing things way out of proportion. A paladin isn''t able to get into groups? I can buff, heal, res and tank pretty well. Sure, I don''t think I will be able to hold aggro as well as a warrior, but a secondary tank won''t hurt a group, and as I''ve already stated, my healing/buffing/res won''t hurt the group either =P. The way I see it, most groups probably look for a Warrior to tank, a Priest to heal, and a Mage for CC/burst damage. That leaves 2 open spots for all the other classes. Also, some areas might not ""require"" a Hunter, Rogue, Paladin, Druid, Warlock or Shaman, but they would be a lot easier.

-Semi Spoiler-

Like in Gnomeregan, in the main Bosses room, there are these tubes which drop bombs. These bombs do a lot of damage, and need to be stopped by hitting a button to the side of the tubes. Having 1-2 Hunters here is great. Both can turn on Aspect of the Cheetah, and run around turning off all the tubes, while at the same time getting some free hits in on the Boss. I''m not sure of any other class that would be able to do this as effectively.

-End Spoiler-

So, yeah, some classes will have an easier time getting into groups, but that doesn''t mean we are gimped.

As for the Hunter vs. Paladin part of this thread, I''ll throw out my views, although I have never fought a Paly outside of a duel since I am alliance.

Most Paladins seem to go for ""of the Bear"" instead of ""of the Eagle"" gear, so they should have around the same mana as a Hunter. I use Viper Sting, to drain a Paladin of all his mana. Luckily for us Paladins, we have Cleanse at lvl 42, this will remove the Viper Sting from us. The main thing here is how fast can you get off your cleanses? If you manage to cleanse viper sting within 2 secs of it hitting you, the Hunter will run out of mana before you. If the Viper Sting gets off one tic, you will run out of mana at the same time as the Hunter. And if you forget to cleanse Viper Sting, well yeah, you are dead.

Other things like the pet, well I have two pets. My DPS pet does ~42DPS, while my everything pet does ~37 DPS (These are inclduing Trueshot aura). My Paladin is only lvl 32, so I don''t have plate (or cleanse) but I imagine I will end up with 55% Damage Reduction or so. So pets will only be doing 15-20DPS, which is much better to ignore, rather then sit there and try to kill the pet (around 1800 Health, 40% Damage Reduction).

I haven''t been able to kite a Paladin that well, given the range restrictions on duels. In the open, the Hunter would have to be careful not to run into other mobs though. You might want to take up engineer to get the Goblin Net-O-Matic. Sure, the Hunter might get one as well, but you can use Blessing of Freedom to get out of it, while the Hunter can''t. If you do manage to get into range, the Hunter will attempt to Wingclip and run. Seal of Justice + Hammer of Justice can help you keep him in Melee. Also, Blessing of Freedom will help for a bit. The only problem with that is a Hunter can spam Wingclip if he needs to. I am not sure if cleanse can remove wingclips effect too, but it''s worth looking into.

In the end, I think it all comes down to Viper Sting vs. Cleanse. No heals, seals, judgements, blessings, shields...that''s one dead Paladin.